Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
Sure, delegates from various nations, peace activists, legislators, film makers, physicians, etc. They all must be HAMAS in your way of viewing things right?!?!

Give me a break man, there were much more credible people on board than you might think. Don't let your hatred towards Hamas blind you.

[edit on 1/6/2010 by MorfeuZ]

First off, I have not said a single thing about Hamas. You are putting words in my mouth and engaging in non-sequitur appeals to ridicule, spite and emotion to distract from the discussion.

Secondly, yes, legislators, film-makers, peace-activists and physicians can all be biased and agenda driven every bit as much as the IDF, especially as they are members of an overtly political organization with a stated political goal. Their positions do not make them any more honest.

And what organization would you be accusing these peace-activists of being part of? Please explain.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
reply to post by gambon

 

WRONG!

If the evidence exists, it is in the hands of IDF now. The ships are ported, passengers are being arrested etc.

Do you really think that the Israeli governament won't confiscate every single memory card with footage recorded by the passengers???

Israeli governament will do what it always do, damage control. It seems to be working, since you are relying so much on the IDF released footage (yes the editted one with yellow captions).

I will say one more time, until most of the pessengers (people from various countries from diverse creeds) are released and interviewed, no amount of Israeli propaganda will suffice.

Absolute claptrap mate ..if any footage existed it would have been up to a satellite in 0 seconds flat...idf would not get chance to fiddle with it ..or did they fiddle with the live broadcast as well, and the various footage from middle eastern tv ....who also do not show idf fireing first

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by Skellon

 

But do you see the Puff of smoke at exactly the same time ?

Hi ken10,

I did see the puff of smoke you speak of. What this could be is not clear.

If the IDF did indeed fire shots as some accounts report then I would have thought in the given situation, warning shots might have been fired to literally warn the passengers that the IDF forces are armed and have authority, thus giving the psychological edge over any resistance and in turn making it safer for the troops to land.

However the troops were aggressed by an 'educated' angry mob using counter-insertion techniques to exploit their vunerablity in boarding using this method.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
And what organization would you be accusing these peace-activists of being part of? Please explain.

Free Gaza.

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by gambon

 

or post the video which shows the idf firing from A) the helicopter...OR

Have a look at this video at 1.15 ?

I'd like opinions from all on this, Is that evidence of gunfire from the chopper ?

sounds like interference to me , or something brushing against the mic

Originally posted by gambon

Originally posted by Dock9
In fact, civilians were shot by israelis while they were asleep

Again where id the evidence for this,,,this is hearsay , no evidence to be seen anywhere?

I'd like to know who these civilians were who got shot in their sleep and where they had supposedly been sleeping. The MV Mavi Marmara was carrying 700 crew and passengers, with a capacity of 1080. Were these passengers sleeping on the deck when they were shot? If so, why?

Originally posted by SUICIDEHK45
reply to post by gambon

 

Diesel engines are fuel injected which usually involves a computer controlling the injectors and many other functions of the engine

nope most marine diesels use mechanical injection system ,,no electronics im afraid , in fact most cars pre 2002 use mechanical

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by gambon

 

Have a look for the "Stop Solenoid" on the injector pump, An electronic valve that cuts the fuel supply to the engine.

not on a mechanically injected marine engine...

Quote Skellen:

Hi ken10,

I did see the puff of smoke you speak of. What this could be is not clear.

If the IDF did indeed fire shots as some accounts report then I would have thought in the given situation, warning shots might have been fired to literally warn the passengers that the IDF forces are armed and have authority, thus giving the psychological edge over any resistance and in turn making it safer for the troops to land.

However the troops were aggressed by an 'educated' angry mob using counter-insertion techniques to exploit their vunerablity in boarding using this method.

Israel HAD NO AUTHORITY

Willravel included this in his/her comment "And if it is occupying Gaza, then under international law (1949 Fourth Geneva Convention) Israel is responsible for the welfare of the Strip’s inhabitants.

Given that the blockade has put Palestinians there on a starvation diet for the past four years, Israel should long ago have been in the dock for committing a crime against humanity."

Meaning, if Israel isn't an occupying force then they have no right to impose a blockade on Palestinian Territorial waters but since they have imposed this blockade they are in fact occupying Gaza. Therefore, Israel "doesn't have a leg to stand on, legally." They are clearly in violation of International Law.

Israel never did have the guts to risk international sanctions by openly declaing they were an 'occupying force' in Gaza

..... yet they have behaved exactly *AS IF * they are an officially-declared occupying-force

However, because they are NOT an official, occupying-force

they had NO RIGHT to declare a blockade in the first place. It was all bluff and bluster -- just another example of their insane control issues

and it follows they had absolutely no right to prevent the aid-flotilla from docking at Gaza

It goes without saying that they had no right therefore to even ask the aid-flotilla to turn around

And the magnitude of israeli-wrongness re: boarding and attacking the aid-flotilla --- is off the scale !





[edit on 1-6-2010 by Dock9]

reply to post by gambon

sounds like interference to me , or something brushing against the mic

The thing is, I would assume there would be some kind of electronic Noise Reduction system in the headphones being used to cancel out any loud noises, similar to those that are used by sport shooters to protect their ears.

So again i would ask people to review this vid with that in mind.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


"However it’s possible the gas masks might have been already present on the ship in maintenance supplies for use in tight and poorly ventilated confines being painted. Painting on board large vessels takes place rather frequently, as salty sea hair and rain can wreck havoc on a paint job. Rust can set in quickly on exposed raw surfaces."

possible I suppose , althought to paint a ship air fed masks would normally be used due to isocyanates found in 2pak marine paint , A mil issue gas mask would not work


Also I believe gas masks are amongst the prohibited items , not allowed to enter gaza...military equiptment

If you look at all the footage released thus far you will see that the accounts of what happened actually favour the IDF reports rather than the reports of what 'allegedly' happened from the counter perspective.

The IDF have stated what happened and the footage released by both the arabic media and the IDF confirm most of their claims.

The released footage does not show passengers murdered in their sleep, shots fired before the soldiers landed or a kill list. It shows a laminated leaflet/booklet with photos and text alongside in columns. It does not however show the source to be an activist or IDF soldier, it does not also show any mention of 'kill list'.

So again, I urge posters to examine the footage that has been released rather than comment based upon their own feelings towards either side.

If footage is later released via liveleak or wikileaks of the alleged murder of sleeping passengers then I will be the first to shout 'Atrocity'.

Lets deal with the facts for now eh?


[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]

The IDF made an illegal boarding of a ship at open seas and killed passengers.
What is the problem understanding that?

Just not willing to.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Ow. Those pesky terrorists. (No, you didn't say they were)

Let's all drink a cool glass of water and calm down here ok?!

I don't see anything wrong, violent or terrorist with this organization. The same I couldn't say about the Israeli governament.

Is bringing peace to a region of the world that has suffered violence over and over again a BAD agenda?

I am not here to say there were only saints onboard, as I have already stated. But to portray them all as having some obscur agenda behind the curtains is too much IMO.

I am trying to be neutral here, but the flood of pro Israeli posts in the last hour astonishes me. All asking for proof proof proof. I think enough proof has been released already to show that Israel was the agressor IMO. But only the live footage from the ship and the editted video released by the IDF are available now. Soon we will have witnessess to report their side of the history, maybe with some RECORDED footage that leaks thru Israeli inspection, althou doubtfull, it's possible.


The flotilla was trying to make a publicity stunt by trying to break the blockade (illegal or not?)? Yep, IMO they were, and it's a good thing. The world needs to see what happens in Gaza, and also needs to see what happens to those that don't take the word of Israel granted.

Israel can not continue to bully the middle east. Violence is only met with more violence.

WE NEED PEACE IN THE REGION ONCE AND FOR ALL.


On a side note, why does people always start to get personal when discussing emotional topics like this is beyound me, it adds to nothing.

reply to post by Skellon


There were thousands of people, from all over the world, watching it as it happened

Read their comments, their disgust, their feeling sick and numb


The interwebs is alive with rage and its coming from those who DID watch it as it unfolded

and no israeli spin is going to alter that


And to top it off, israle had NO right ... none .. zilch ... to go anywhere near that vessel

Yet it did. And it murdered so many civilians in cold blood, that it's secreted them away to stop them talking

and to give itself time to try to effect damage control via its patently absurd lies .... again

reply to post by Skellon


So let me get this straight.

You are taking the word of ISRAEL on good faith, considering all of their past dealings with propaganda and media cover ups. Israel, who at this time has complete control on all information related to this incident.

Because you know, Israel's history is certainly facts in this case. And when you add everything together, it certainly doesn't look good on Israel's end.

reply to post by MorfeuZ

but the flood of pro Israeli posts in the last hour astonishes me.

It's called the IIDF.

You people will swallow anything, and you're meant to be the conspiracy geeks!

Al jazeera live streaming the incident. Now there's a stroke of luck. One ship of six involved in the violence, the other 5 had no problems.

The israelies are now enemy number 1. With muslim fundamentalists, it wouldn't surprise me if the 10 deaths were a false flag incident.

Don't be too quick to hate israel. I know if a flotilla of muslims were heading for the UK and nothing was done to stop them i'd be ticked off.

You all swallow the propaganda from al jazeera

Originally posted by Skellon


Lets deal with the facts for now eh?

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]

Yep, sure ...Here's one... The Israeli military illegally boarded a Turkish ship in international waters, and when attempts were made to repel them decided to start killing the occupants of the ship.

There you go ... fact

Want another fact?

How about what the Israelis did was an act of piracy and murder... which they've now compounded with kidnapping

There you go... facts

Originally posted by DangerDeath
The IDF made an illegal boarding of a ship at open seas and killed passengers.
What is the problem understanding that?

Just not willing to.

I agree that they made an illegal bording of a ship in international waters, the evidence does seem to support this.

I am discussing the event itself rather than the legality of the location it took place in because had the IDF waited until the ship passed into territorial waters, the event would have most probably still played out the same way.