Riddle me this Athiests...

I like that the religious person in this thread equates not believing in something because of a lack of evidence to an argument from ignorance.

Apart from having to sift through the Long comments people left I got to the bottom. I find it quite annoying having to read through long comments of whatever when clearly the majority of them are trying to false the opinions on others subconsciously or not.

SO, I'll try not to make mine to long.

I used to be Atheist as were my parents but the more I understand about the World and how it pieces together reality actually become more and more confusing however the possibility of God seems to become greater; how ever I still stay reserved an have my doubts.

The way I see things is, Who am I ? an if there was no I how can I acknowledge myself. I don't really see why you'd want to be an atheist because if you Atheist doesn't that mean that you don't actually believe in yourself...

Basically what most atheist scientist like to believe for some reason is that there Brain creates a consciousness which fools itself that it actually exists an along with that nothing has any real meaning... if we aren't real. Why'd you actually want to believe that I don't know.

Along with that you also have the Philosophical question of what is reality, from the way I see things. People are born into this world an they only know to what is within this world an that this world is all there is, how you can you be so sure the reality you live in is actually real.

Okay lets get away from the Pondering as its rootless. The reason I personally believe in God is that despite the harshness and randomness of space, apparently we live our lives on a quite astonishingly stable planet, not only that but the different forces of nature are so finally tuned that they've allowed matter to form in such away we can exist. Also the earth to sun ration with the moon is so perfectly tuned that we have a stable climate, an if it wasn't for the moon we'd spin of into space; that's a lot on coincidences don't you think.

I also find it quite astonishing that theres over 1 Billion Muslims alone + all the followers of all the other religions, I find it quite hard to believe that so many people can believe in something that's apparently not actually real.

so i personally have to come to believe/realize that although as real as reality as come to seem, actually how real is reality. According to Psychics it isn't at all, I shouldn't be able to grasp anything as apparently its not made of anything solid..

I think science nor religion will be able to prove either an reality has been set up in such away that only what is physical is confined to reality so Beyond is literally a leap of faith.

This is Only my point of view an I could be completely wrong, however I am certain that life and reality has alot!! more diversity than what we give it credit for, unfortunately the brain seems to like to structure everything an have everything thing conform to norms.

I hope this makes some sense

J just wanted too add that, most Atheist especially science seem to feel comfortable with being atheist because they have scientific theories to justify there beliefs to themselves an others.

As much as a lot of science have credible foundation which its theories are based, alot of these theories seem to pass as pure fact in peoples collective thinkings, an I don't think that people acknowledge the fact that a lot of theories are very much still theories an much of science in the areas of Energy, particle physics and all the science on planets, stars an the universe have no grounding yet were quite happy to accept them as fact.

I'm quite positive I'll get loads of science gurus firing different facts and information at me trying to set me straight, but I'll be honest I do know alot about some areas about science but its probably quite obvious its not great in others, so I'm happy for you to do that, just don't think I'm saying I know everything.

reply to post by SamCerulean

"Science can tell us how to do many things, it can not tell us what ought to be done".

Author unknown

[edit on 12-6-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Like all relgions and beliefs, we atheists have our extremists. I dont give a damn about what you do or dont believe in, just stop critisicing us for our beliefs. Its only a small minorty that give us a bad name.

Dont generalise....PLEASE

If only everyone had this mindset the world would be a better place. Whether they be Christian, Muslim, Buddhist etc, everybody needs to come to the realisation that only a minority of radicals bring down a religion. Not every Muslim is a terrorist, not every Christian a bible bashing evangelist and not every Wican a cauldron stirring evil-doer. I think there is common ground in every belief system, we just need to find it and let it unite us.

reply to post by SamCerulean


You are mixing theory with fact. Theories are based on facts. Theory in the vernacular is used to indicate a guess. That is not how it is used in science.

reply to post by ovenden

If only everyone had this mindset the world would be a better place.

What makes the world a better place is that everyone is different. How boring it would be if everyone was the same and thought the same. We need artists as much as scientists. We need entertainment as much as engineering feats.

We are supposed to be made in his image by his design? then why do we still have genetic flaws in our species. Was it Gods wish to put cancer and other fatal diseases into our gene pools? If we are made in gods image why do we have sicko murderer's and peado's and the like?. Please dont give me that free will B######T.

reply to post by Ezappa


Very well spoken Ezappa. Stars for you.

To the OP,
What's the point of of labeling anyone "athiest", "agnostic", or "alligator" for that matter. I am ME and no one else.
I hate main stream religon for constantly trying to push their misguided "beliefs" in my face.
Burn down the churches, throw away the bibles, koran, and etc. and we can actually start living for a change.

reply to post by stereologist


Let me clarify, i probably didn't put that the best way. What I was trying to say was the world would be a better place if everyone excepted and respected each others beliefs.

How about rather than "picking" on people as the OP put it. We allow people to have faith in whatever they choose, and we accept them for it. Wouldn't the world be such a nicer place? Than again asking someone not to insult another because of their beliefs is a little to much to ask right?

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by SamCerulean

 

"Science can tell us how to do many things, it can not tell us what ought to be done".

Author unknown

[edit on 12-6-2010 by randyvs]

I disagree. I'll use population density vs. farming as an example.

Current scientific knowledge of agriculture can sustain a population only so large. A new and different agricultural practice will allow the same area of land to feed a much larger population. Science in the case obviously tells us that as land area decreases as residential area increases that we ought to adopt a different agricultural model than the current one that can not sustain a larger population density.

Originally posted by ovenden
reply to post by stereologist

 

Let me clarify, i probably didn't put that the best way. What I was trying to say was the world would be a better place if everyone excepted and respected each others beliefs.

If you think about it really hard, you'll quickly realize that such a scenario is not possible.

On one side, you have religions who's doctrine and deity demands that they convert others into their faith.

On the other side you have Atheists that don't want to be constantly told they're going to hell if they don't believe.

How can either side respect one another when one side wants to be left alone and the other side is scripturally indebted to do their deities bidding? The two beliefs do not mix well at all. I can't respect their beliefs as their beliefs demand that I believe what they believe. I could more readily respect their beliefs if they could keep their beliefs private rather than banging on my door.

Hey there, I mostly lurk the forums, but I thought I would drop in to say what I think about this.


When I look at a Bible, I see a story cleverly crafted to include all basic morals through outstanding stories and adventures. It's the perfect fable of which has perfect morals. Don't steal, don't commit adultery, don't do this don't do that etc.

Now, this is *slightly* off topic, but I can't STAND it when people of belief look at me being atheist and automatically ASSUME I cannot have morals. And if I do, then I must have gotten them from the Bible or He must have touched me. Nonsense. I can have morals. Treat others the way you would want to be treated. Basic building block. I don't need a Bible to tell me what is right and what is wrong; I can safely say I have a good understanding of how society works. Stealing = Bad, Giving = Good. It's just common knowledge. I don't do it BECAUSE a Holy book tells me to do so, I do it because it feels right to me.


God: From my understanding, the Christian God is a jealous God. I ask myself, WHY would the creator of the Universe and all that is bound within it have such human emotions? Okay maybe He does have feelings. Sure. In which case I ask myself, WHY would He allow such atrocities like the Holocaust, torture, Rwanda, Columbine etc happen? I have asked many Christians, and it is to teach the rest of humanity a lesson. Okay that works, but did you really have to slaughter 6 million Jewish people to get your mediocre point across? Some say that the Devil is behind all of this.

Okay the Devil is behind all bad things. Oh no, the ultimate villain. Surprisingly, the creator of literally everything, can't just smite the enemy. I can't imagine how hard it would be. He made the Earth in 7 days. Shouldnt take more than a few hours of His time to lay waste to Satan.

***brief thing on Hell. God loves you. With all his heart. Does this include atheists? I've been told so. Anyways, WHY would God send his own children to Hell to suffer for infinite time, no second chances? Because we don't have faith? That's just silly; God has never 'given me a sign' or tried to reach down to me. In a sense, I don't have a choice. What about atheists who are heroes to society? Suppose an atheist man does good all his life with not much sin. He will have his fingers grated by a cheese grater and have his Achilles tendon slashed infinite times forever. A man of religion lives in sin. I know many. They smoke, they drink, they do drugs, they betray lovers, they touch little children. As long as you go and repent yourself, it's all good! "Sorry God, I couldn't control my urges. I was born with schitzophrenia. Not my fault I killed that wonderful Atheist man!" "No worries bud, I'll send you to heaven but the atheist man, ooooooooh I will send him to the darkest depths of hell." What does he do about autistic children? Babies? It's so loose. ****

Then of course comes the issue of a year to us is a second to Him (give or take). I would assume that our Creator would make sure we run on the same calendar as him...



Obviously everything I've said can be refuted by the simple "How do you know? You're not God."

I don't know. Look into your hearts. Feel your inner strength. Do things because you know someone will feel good from it, not because you have to.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
I just literally don't care if there is a god or not, it makes no difference to my life either way.

Let's say there is a God... In such a scenario, you'd owe your life and everything in it to God. So, to say the existence of God makes no difference to your life either way doesn't make much sense.

However if there is one, thanks very much for creating us, although i shall not be worshipping you.

That's not very respectful.

reply to post by CHA0S


Jesus rules, because His laws rule.

Please tell me what is wrong with the laws of Jesus.

Jesus says love each other - and we do not.

Jesus says feed the poor - and we do not.

Jesus says forgive each other and a lot of us do not.

Jesus says a lot of things which would keep humanity alive, and we ignore them all - and that is why humans are going to die.

Originally posted by CHA0S
Bring me one science textbook which states God does not exist.

Bring me one science textbook that states that purple unicorns with pink spots don't exist.

Why devote space in a textbook to acknowledging the absence of things that don't exist?

Originally posted by ~Lucidity

Originally posted by CHA0S
Bring me one science textbook which states God does not exist.

Bring me one science textbook that states that purple unicorns with pink spots don't exist.

The concept of God is an omnipotent and omniscient being who ultimately created everything. The main reasons why I personally have pondered the existence of such an entity (and not purple unicorns) is because there is a degree of order in our universe that has allowed the creation of suns, planets, and sentient life. Some of this sentient life has even evolved to the point where they question their own existence and wonder why we're here. On the other hand--while they do sound pretty--the idea of purple unicorns isn't very interesting to me. Unless of course, we're talking about an omnipotent and omniscient purple unicorn who ultimately created everything. In which case, we'd be talking about the same thing, only using different words. But why would an all-powerful being take the form of a purple unicorn?

reply to post by ChickenPie


If something doesn't exist, why would I devote space in a science textbook to it?

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by ChickenPie

 

If something doesn't exist, why would I devote space in a science textbook to it?

Do you write science textbooks?

No?

Then don't worry about it.

[edit on 20-6-2010 by ChickenPie]

reply to post by ChickenPie

But why would an all-powerful being take the form of a purple unicorn?

A better question might be what form WOULD such a being take, if any at all. Many, when they imagine "God" in their head imagine a white guy with a beard and usually a white robe on (this is, coincidentally, the same thing most people imagine Moses looked like). But this is all based on contemporary illustration, Renaissance artwork and to a lesser extent Biblical accounts but why must God be so human?

(I guess because we're made in his image right, than why were Neanderthals also made in his image, this answer raises more questions than it answers)

I think it odd that most Gods we humans have conjured up aren't seven headed green insectoids or purple unicorns - most are modeled after humans and many times the exhibit exaggerated forms of human qualities. The Greek Narcissus comes to mind.

I don't think, however, that its any more plausible for one God to exist in one form or another - if he/she/it is omnipotent it can take on any form it wants so a purple unicorn is just as likely as the elderly Caucasian stereotype we have today.

God's existence, regardless of physical form, is very unlikely especially if we're dealing with an omnipresent, all powerful, omnibenevolent being.