Riddle me this Athiests...

reply to post by sirnex

Prophecy derived from other deities are not prophecies from your deity. Your particular deity explicitly forbids following anything derived from other deities. Following such prophecies would be following false prophets, a direct sin according to your deity.

I can only agree. Hearing and acknowledging a truth do not constitute following No matter the case.

Your deity also does not allow you to pick and choose what parts of his word to follow and which to dismiss. He never says follow false prophets if you agree with what they are saying is true. Unless you can quote scripture to back up your personal beliefs, then you are committing a sin against your deity of choice/indoctrination.

Well I don't really have to produce anything Sir. For one thing at the most it's miniscule even to him. Most certainly nothing you can stand in judgement of.

What about Edgar Casey is he just a myth?
one more then I have to hit the showers.

STOP!

[edit on 22-5-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs

I can only agree. Hearing and acknowledging a truth do not constitute following No matter the case.

When you acknowledge a prophecy from a false prophet as per defined by your deity of choice as being 'true', you are committing a sin against your deity of choice.

Well I don't really have to produce anything Sir. For one thing at the most it's miniscule even to him. Most certainly nothing you can stand in judgement of.

According to your deity of choice, all sins matter to him. I can certainly hold judgment as your demonstrating a lack of care of following your deities teachings and rules. You show a sense of feeling above your deity and that you can choose how it's rules apply to you and still call yourself a "follower" of your deity.

If you can't follow the rules and teachings of a deity that you hold sacred to yourself, then I have no reason to doubt that you won't follow the rules of man either.

What about Edgar Casey is he just a myth?
one more then I have to hit the showers.

I know he existed, but I don't see any of his prophecies being true. Your also attempting to twist my statement out of context in an attempt to say "HA GOT YA". Your not ninja enough for that yet.

reply to post by sirnex

I know he existed, but I don't see any of his prophecies being true. Your also attempting to twist my statement out of context in an attempt to say "HA GOT YA". Your not ninja enough for that yet.

I deny there is any truth to this statement at all. I wouldn't try going Ninja on any one. Mentally I know my limits better than that. You might have me mixed up with someone else. Sorry but the gotya thing not any kind of a goal for me. I don't know what else to say to that.

The Bible says every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess Jesus
Christ is Lord. Are you arrogant enough to believe that won't include you ?

I'm in the shower so take your time .
STOP!

Originally posted by randyvs

The Bible says every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess Jesus
Christ is Lord. Are you arrogant enough to believe that won't include you ?

It seems as if the arrogance is coming from that claim in the bible. Being that there are people such as I that don't comply with that claim it would seem the bible is likely incorrect in that assertion. Or is that supposed to be something that happens after death?

quote:
Bring me one science textbook which states God does not exist
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
compair the modern bible with the agient scrolls found in israel...
then realise how you are brainwashed and manipulated..

everybody knows that text aint any proof...only fysical proof stands...
wat remains is personal beliefe and you are (still) free in it.....
so stop the crusade and have respect for those who have an different vision of it...

trough the ages christians have walked the path of blood....
killing at crusades in the name of the lord ...
throwing woman as claimed wiches into the fire in name of the lord...
and all those terrible wars based on defending the christian belief...
even under the christians there's blood and hate...
northern ireland // kosovo ect ect ect

really.. if there is one group living as the bible learn you ..it will be the atheist among us...
they don't carry the past with them...

reply to post by randyvs

I deny there is any truth to this statement at all. I wouldn't try going Ninja on any one. Mentally I know my limits better than that. You might have me mixed up with someone else. Sorry but the gotya thing not any kind of a goal for me. I don't know what else to say to that.

I'm sorry if I got to the punch before you had. I'm ninja like that.

Aye, I'm well aware of your limits, you've demonstrated them quiet well. I do appreciate you holding back on the outright insulting. Must be rough.

The Bible says every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess Jesus
Christ is Lord. Are you arrogant enough to believe that won't include you ?

I'm sorry, I don't subscribe to any ancient mythologies.

reply to post by Traditionaldrummer

Or is that supposed to be something that happens after death?

Correct.

I'm sorry if I got to the punch before you had. I'm ninja like that

Why of course you are and I couldn't imagine hearing that from anyone else.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by randyvs]

I think all of us who are happy to call ourselves atheist should be glad that religious people believe there is a god. My reasoning is as follows:

I am accountable for my actions. I understand the consequences if i do wrong and i accept the plaudits when i do well. God does not enter into the equation.

However, it would seem that a lot of these religious types, if presented with absolute proof to their satisfaction that god did not exist, would immediately go on a murder, rape,and theft rampage as they would no longer have anything to fear.

I for one think that us Atheist should encourage the religious types in their belief for the safety of us all.


oh dear...

one moment....

just read that last bit back to myself and think i may have spotted the flaw in my own argument.

The flaw of course is that religious types do go on rampages as previously stated, but then of course it is for the greater good. In the name of [insert deity]

See the crusades, the inquisition, jihads, witch hunts, murder of other human beings who do a job you dont like or live a life style that you disagree with. (abortionists and homosexuals spring to mind).

Its a catch 22 situation for us. sit back and watch ignorant religious bigotry destroy the world, or remove god and release the lunatics from the only thing that seems to be holding them back.

Rant over...out

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Traditionaldrummer

 

Or is that supposed to be something that happens after death?

Correct.

Ahhh. I see.

Well, since the bible is demonstrably incorrect in many of its other claims how can I be certain that this one is factual?

It has never been wrong to have faith. What's wrong is with organized religion is the constant"we're right!" attitude. To believe in any god you like is fine, but when it starts invading someone elses' beliefs, that's where I draw the line!

I do not believe in God because of the fact that I think that a just, and loving god would not permit the atrocities and abominations to occur on this planet. Also, with the Christian God; I don't think that He/She/It could judge or condemn anyone to Hell. He/She/It gave us free will and how can we be damned for something that was given to us WAY before we were ready for it!?



"The Jews got it right. They don't have a hell." - George Carlin

Originally posted by sirnex
I could personally care less how something is proven, so long as it is proven.

You must care how something is proven, otherwise you could not define ''proven''.
What constitutes proof in your opinion ?

Originally posted by sirnex
With that being said, Atheists and religious alike both don't praise Ra every morning for the same very reason, because it's mythology.

That's not true. Religious people that believe in Ra do praise him. In fact, I may praise him tomorrow morning just to prove a point.

Originally posted by sirnex
Atheists take it that step further and place all deities into the realm of mythology as there is no more evidence for the Judaic-Christian God than there is for Ra

In other words, you have not come across any evidence for God or Ra.

Originally posted by sirnex
I have no reason to pick one over the other as being more plausible. Whilst true that science has *not* discovered everything, it's rather arrogant to blindly profess one's own deity of choice or indoctrination is more valid than Ra.

I think you're confusing faith with science. Believing in one particular concept of God is faith based, and consequently no empirical evidence is required.

Originally posted by slank
Yes, something [aka god] can exist & leave no evidence.

But if there is no evidence it is virtually impossible that there is any effect.

A god without any effect?

Sorry to be simplistic, but I think the effect of a posited God is perfectly tangible ( ie. existence ).

Originally posted by ressiv
trough the ages christians have walked the path of blood....
killing at crusades in the name of the lord ...
throwing woman as claimed wiches into the fire in name of the lord...
and all those terrible wars based on defending the christian belief...
even under the christians there's blood and hate...
northern ireland // kosovo ect ect ect

really.. if there is one group living as the bible learn you ..it will be the atheist among us...
they don't carry the past with them...

I don't mean to repeat myself, but how can you rationalise the atrocities committed by atheist regimes ?

It's abundantly obvious to me that humans have an intrinsic propensity to control and dominate others. If it's not for a religious reason, then it'll be for another ideological or superficial reason.

The troubles in Northern Ireland are equally attributable to ethnicity; perhaps we should be looking at breeding different ethnicities to create a one world race. Even then, people would just start picking on others because they have a bigger nose or harrier eyebrows.

Originally posted by idmonster
See the crusades, the inquisition, jihads, witch hunts, murder of other human beings who do a job you dont like or live a life style that you disagree with. (abortionists and homosexuals spring to mind).

Its a catch 22 situation for us. sit back and watch ignorant religious bigotry destroy the world, or remove god and release the lunatics from the only thing that seems to be holding them back.

Once again, what's the difference between people killing in the name of God and people killing in the name of their non-religious political ideology ( such as Pol Pot ).
Atheists who use this line of argument are intellectually dishonest.
How on earth is it wrong to kill someone in the name of your God, but not so bad to kill someone because they do believe in God ?

As for ''life style you disagree with'', well you are the other side of that coin; you disagree with the lifestyle of those are against homosexuality or abortion.

It appears the logic is escaping you. There is exactly the same degree of probability, logic, reasoning, and believability that God made the Universe as there is that Strawberry Jam made the universe - they are equally probable, reasonable assumptions - which is ZERO.

Firstly, you are comparing a finite concept within extremely small parameters with an infinite concept. This is the flaw that many atheists make with their comparison with flying spaghetti monsters, celestial teapots, pink elephants and other such things.
The definitions and concepts of God are infinite ( Maybe God manifests as a jar of jam ? ), so atheists appear to indulge in the pointless pursuit of making up their own concept of God, only to disbelieve in it.
Disbelieving in all concepts of God is done so out of ignorance, because you'd first have to have knowledge of all concepts of God - which nobody does.
Also, by some broader definitions, a jar of jam creating the universe would constitute God.

Secondly, you are making another mistake that atheists often make, by claiming that the existence of God is ''just as likely/probable'' as any other unproven concept.
It is fallacious to claim that any unobserved object or concept is equally/less/more likely than another unobserved object or concept. That is an argument based on your own personal opinion and not logic.
God creating the universe is either 100% true or 0% true. A jar of jam creating the universe is either 100% true or 0% true. It is impossible to work out any mathematical likelihood or probability of either idea without first knowing the actual truth value of either concept - in which case the likelihood or probability becomes redundant.
If you actively disbelieve in both concepts, then you are committing the argument from ignorance and argument from personal incredulity logical fallacies.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

Well, since the bible is demonstrably incorrect in many of its other claims how can I be certain that this one is factual

Hmm, You know you just can't get away with claiming something is wrong.
Let's see what I have missed? How can two mentally capable human beings
be at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum, on something so
important? Gods word has remained through all this time, because it is indestructible. It is only indestructible, because it is the truth.
Do you not agree that the truth lives for ever?

[edit on 26-5-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by idmonster
I think all of us who are happy to call ourselves atheist should be glad that religious people believe there is a god. My reasoning is as follows:

I am accountable for my actions. I understand the consequences if i do wrong and i accept the plaudits when i do well. God does not enter into the equation.

You are only accountable for your actions if you self-impose the arbitrary, human concept of self-accountability.
Atheism doesn't beget responsibility or accountability, it's your own choice and not entirely logical.

Originally posted by randyvs

Hmm, You know you just can't get away with claiming something is wrong.
Let's see what I have missed? How can two mentally capable human beings
be at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum, on something so
important? Gods word has remained through all this time, because it is indestructible. It is only indestructible, because it is the truth.
Do you not agree that the truth lives for ever?

"God's word" remained in tact all this time partially because of European religious hegemony such as the Inquisition and later in America because of the enormous profits to be made with the tax-free incentive. Let's put that aside for now.

Claims that the bible makes such as that demons cause disease and that rainbows are a covenant have been disproved by scientific discovery and observation. Furthermore, claims that bushes and snakes talk and people returning from the dead should easily be recognized as an affront to normal reasoning. That aside, the scientific refutations are enough to prove that the inerrant word and truth of god was errant and untruthful. How then can anyone be certain of its metaphysical claims?

In response to the OP's original question about textbooks I give you:

Stenger, V. J. (2008), God the Failed Hypothesis - How Science Shows that God does not Exist, New York, Prometheus Books.

It also serves as an excellent noddy guide to logical reasoning and scientific method for those who question scientific theories without understanding them or understanding the approach scientists use to review each others' work.