"They come here for a better life" and "Jobs Americans Won't Do"

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


So long as the illegals continue to come here with the will to work, the corporations and businesses will continue to hire them and continue to save millions like they always have. The politicians will continue to turn the blind eye to these businesses and corporations because at the end of the day they have their campaign donations to have in mind, right?

This bill passed was just another way for politicians to pander to the voters in time for the 2010 elections. The law does not address the core issue of illegal immigration, is does not put more pressure and enforcement on the companies that hire these illegals, instead it gives law enforcement the power of judge and jury towards anybody. Instead of addressing the issue of illegal immigration, you gave the power to the police to ignore the 5th. So long as these illegals have the jobs to hire them, the issue will continue.

You will never in a million years find these same politicians pointing towards who is covering and hiring these illegals. Oh no no no, they want you to continue to be distracted.

Many companies seek to reduce their operating costs in order to improve their bottom line. When they seek to reduce the operating costs, the first thing that they go after is the labor cost. To reduce labor cost, companies could either lay off some of the employees and thereby reduce the strength of their workforce. Or, the companies could start changing the existing employee demographics by gradually bringing in employees who are willing to work at much lesser wage rates. Such examples could be found in the manufacturing or retail industry. Or, if a company is in technology or services industry, then it might outsource many of the day-to-day activities to offshore locations or countries. These offshore locations have a lower currency rate vis-a-vis the dollar and hence the company achieves significant reduction in costs.

Most of the policy making done by the politicians are influenced by the corporate lobbyists to some extent. Beneath all the political sloganeering, we would find that the corporates do have a say in the political decision making.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by order in chaos]

reply to post by Exuberant1


You think that interm camps and deportation is the answer. You're really indoctrinated into NWO and long term bloodline rules.

This is the thing that horrifies me the most, nearly everyone posts with awareness of the world around them to create even more aware people so that this world might change, nwo might give way to true options, but the mentality is the same.

If everyone was absolutely free tomorrow with the same values they possess, they would quickly reastablish this cold hearted, inhumane, rule of law, pyramid structure, winners and losers, all over again. You have to be the change, and a world without borders, non-nwo style, with grass roots empowerment and equality from the bottom up, compassion for all is instrinsic.

Also, walk in others shoes.

No, there are no quick answers to this issue, but it was created by corporations wanting slaves.

Making them legals who paid taxes is one solution. In addition, to actually create some real wealth at the bottom of the pyramid instead of the top, boycott the corporations and start replacing goods and services at the bottom, and buy from each other, the economy would be healthy, and real.

Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

I don't believe in putting Illegals in camps, or even rounding them up.

Firstly, that would be a logistical nightmare. Secondly, it doesn't need to be done.

It is too bad you don't believe in such measures.


The logistics might be nightmarish to you, but they are not.

With Forty million Americans relying on food stamps to avoid starving, rounding them up and deporting the illegals en masse does need to be done.

*A cash reward should also be offered for information leading to the capture of an illegal. $1000 dollars per illegal captured would be a nice way of thanking the American who helped get that criminal off the streets and out of the country. Should their tip about even one illegal leads to the capture of multiple illegals, then the person should receive $1000 or more per illegal. Likewise, rewards would offered for turning in those who harbour illegals.


This cash incentive would allow entrepreneurs to make money (potentially lots of it) whilst helping to solve the illegal problem.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Its absolutely fascist to consider ever putting anyone in a fema camp. The real problems lie with the leaders, not the Mexicans. There could be a kind of deal made with Mexico that would allow free exchange of work and living, perhaps a kind of dual citizenship, providing minimum wage is respected, and taxes paid, I mean there is so many other solutions, that one is not the one to go with.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

Its absolutely fascist to consider ever putting anyone in a fema camp.

Holding camps could be built for this purpose, they don't necessarily have to be FEMA camps - I suggested those because so many have already been built.

*And how does enforcing the law equate to fascism?

...It doesn't.

I have zero understanding of why they would want to keep Mexicans out of the country. Just allow easier legal access. It all revolves around greed, Mexico isn't that BIG, we have enough space for people who actually want to work, not only that, but instead of invading Iraq we could be invading Mexico and actually be helping them.

Originally posted by Exuberant1



Holding camps could be built for this purpose, they don't necessarily have to be FEMA camps - I suggested those because so many have already been built.

*And how does enforcing the law equate to fascism?

...It doesn't.

Hey, I love this idea. Not only that, while they are in them, they can go pick strawberries, or whatever, for free, to cover the cost of keeping them there. Perhaps a stay in one of these camps for about 3 months, as punishment?

If they are forced to do the work for free, they will think twice before coming here illegally, and hopefully the costs of food will go down!

reply to post by paranoiaFTW


Easy
plumbers
my ex is one and it's part of the job he's been doing for years and years

Attrition Through Enforcement

www.numbersusa.com...

The principle behind Attrition Through Enforcement is that living illegally in the United States will become more difficult and less satisfying over time when the government – at ALL LEVELS – enforces all of the laws already on the books. The goal is to make it extremely difficult for unauthorized persons to live and work in the United States. There is no need for taxpayers to watch the government spend billions of their dollars to round up and deport illegal aliens; they will buy their own bus or plane tickets back home if they can no longer earn a living here.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Hey, I love this idea. Not only that, while they are in them, they can go pick strawberries, or whatever, for free, to cover the cost of keeping them there. Perhaps a stay in one of these camps for about 3 months, as punishment?

Absolutely not.

That would defeat the purpose (which is getting them out of the market and shipping them to their countries of origin as soon as possible ). The holding camps would be just that - Holding Camps. They would not punishment facilities or a source of labour.

They would have children and old people and that is why the illegals should get no less than what was intended for short-term use by the American people during times of emergency (hence FEMA camps).






[edit on 15-5-2010 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Exuberant1


They would have children and old people and that is why the illegals should get no less than what was intended for short-term use by the American people during times of emergency (hence FEMA camps).

Well, then I completely disagree with your idea.

Why should tax payers have to cough up the dough, to "hold them?"

They have already been getting a free ride, the old one's, and young ones too.

I say pass go, don't collect a free ride in a camp, get directly deposited in your land of origin.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose

I say pass go, don't collect a free ride in a camp, get directly deposited in your land of origin.

That is not efficient.

I'm sure you think you could deport millions of illegals without holding facilities, but your thoughts have little bearing on the reality of the situation. You actually want to spend more on the illegals than I do.

In order to efficiently deport millions of illegals in a short period of time, holding facilities would have to be used. You might not be able to understand this, but that's okay.



[edit on 15-5-2010 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Exuberant1


No, I do understand what you are saying. Send them home, in bulk, rather than a ticket here, or there.

Sad thing is, they will just come right back.

Putting them to work for free, for a period of time, will stop them from coming back, over and over again. Perhaps they can seek an under the table job back at home, if they don't like working for free here, on a few month basis.

There have to be consequences for people who come here illegally. Sending them back home, even in the way you describe would not deter them. They have already sent money back home, to pay their way back to the US, well before they send money back home for anything else.

Americans will do any job that Mexicans do. The problem is that businesses only want to hire illegals. Americans could work off the books, too.

reply to post by Exuberant1

A cash reward should also be offered for information leading to the capture of an illegal. $1000 dollars per illegal captured would be a nice way of thanking the American who helped get that criminal off the streets and out of the country. Should their tip about even one illegal leads to the capture of multiple illegals, then the person should receive $1000 or more per illegal. Likewise, rewards would offered for turning in those who harbour illegals.

You obvioulsy don't think things through...yes it would be a logistical nightmare...not to mention a humanitarian crisis.

$1000 for "information"??? ICE would be completely overwhelmed by false reports...your average dumb American would see a Mexican and report them in hopes to collect $1000. You are suggesting a modern day witch hunt....we all know how good the last one went.


There will be no mass deportation...that is just never going to happen...I suggest you learn to live with it. There will be some form of amnesty in the near future...so why don't you just get used to having a lot more brown skinned fellow Americans.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
...so why don't you just get used to having a lot more brown skinned fellow Americans.

Playing the race card?

It was only a matter of time before you pulled that out.


*Again with the 'logistical nightmare'.... You may want it to be so, but it is not. It might be to you though, but that is okay.

The problem with illegal immigrants is that people turn this into an emotional and moral debate, whereas the law does not take either into account.

Our Federal laws specifically state that any person, regardless of citizenship, race, ethnicity,etc., that crosses across the border into the United States without the proper documentation, or any person that knowingly violates the "leave by" date on any temporary status in this country, has committed a felony.

Further, what people fail to realize, is that there are good people in our jails right now. Citizens that simply made a mistake. However, they committed a crime and are now facing the penalties.

No law states that shop lifting is only a crime if you don't really need the stuff you are taking. Rather, we offer LEGAL ways for people to receive assistance should they not be able to afford such things on their own. And if you don't follow the legal protocol and simply steal what you need? You go to jail.

We have LEGAL means to entering this country. It has nothing to do with what you can or can't contribute to society. It matters not if you are a doctor, a Freedom Fighter, a bum, or a politician. The law makes no distinction. And in each case, EACH person would have to file with the proper authorities in order to stay.

Now, if we begin to isolate which illegals are worthy and which are not, we have opened ourselves up to subjective profiling and discrimination. Is that what we want? Or rather, should we have laws that apply to everyone, regardless of circumstance and/or justification?

Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
"THEY JUST WANT A BETTER LIFE"



I have heard a lot of this said lately regarding Illegal Immigrants.

I was wondering how this would sound as an excuse for any other criminal act or even a lowly misdemeanor. I don't think I've ever heard it used to excuse any other crime or breaking of the law.

"Officer...I stole that man's car because I wanted a better life!" hmmm...nope that doesn't sound right.

"Your Honor...I submit my Defendant robbed the bank because he was poor...and just wanted a better life"....nope....that doesn't work either.

"Your Honor....they broke into the house and stole jewelry because they just wanted a better life"...nope

"Officer...I was just speeding because I needed to get to my girlfriends house for a quickie...it helps me have a better life"....not that either.

"Officer....I'm driving drunk because I temporarily thought it would lead to a better life. I also sell crack and make a lot of money....for a better life of course."

So now that we see that cannot fly for an excuse, please STOP ALL PRETENDING it will jibe with REALITY.

Illegal Immigration...more than anything is a crime of RESOURCE. Yes, there are resources that every nation possesses. Some more than others depending on location. This is why we started TRADING between nations. Why entire economies were built around TRADE.

A nation allocates certain RESOURCES to it's citizens. It is done by Census, City Planning, State planning, budgets, banks, business. Just about EVERYTHING a nation and it's government does evolves around the need of it's citizens...even allocated Representatives to Congress.

Nationality is not about PRIDE in your Government, because politicians and Governments make bad choices that don't represent us. Nationality is about PRIDE in your HOST...your HOUSE. America is a HOME to it's citizens. It's our home at the MACRO level.

When a foreign entity invades, degrades, usurps, or migrates to the HOST country at an unexpected rate, RESOURCES get thrown out of alignment. RESOURCES that can be used for LEGAL hosts citizens, eventually get thrown to the ILLEGAL occupants.

Resources like jobs, hospitals, schools, taxes, property, VOTES, health care, public funds, land, food...it hits all levels.

A lot has been said about the fact that OUR (Americas) Illegals contribute BACK as much if not more than they take. I have yet to see a study which shows this definitely...I hold my breath.

Let's take the Mexican Illegal Immigrants. It's estimated that money sent to Mexico from Illegals here, has been in the hundreds of BILLIONS, since the early 90's, the onslaught from NAFTA. Aside from Mexico's oil business, America acts as it's welfare office. We basically help float Mexico's whole economy.

Aside from what we pay in expenses HERE to combat the problem, we are propping up another country by our dollars flying out to them. I think from all the money we've given, we've deserved a few Million acres of land by now.

Illegal Immigration is about affecting another persons HOST..dismantling it's allocated RESOURCES...and THIEVERY. Yes, it's more complex, but at it's base, it's thievery of another's sovereign right to their collective funds, resources, as well as individual right to equally share in it between citizens....us.

So let's go to another RESOURCE....JOBS.

"JOBS THAT AMERICAN WON"T DO"

In another thread I posted the jobs that I have observed go out the door here in Los Angeles and greater California. Since I have lived most of my life in Los Angeles in many different neighborhoods, have lived all over California too, and know it like the back of my hand. I feel qualified to report what I KNOW to be true about our economy.


Here is just a list from the top of my head of jobs "Americans" won't do":

1) HVAC installation. Heating and air conditioning....many Illegals in that field, I know them.

2) Digital cable and satellite installation...Illegals in that too.

3) MOST commercial and residential building companies along with day laborers. Many Journeyman level jobs that SPECIALIZE....Illegals took it over too.

4) Telecom industry.

5) Shipping and receiving.

6) Warehouse and manufacturing.

7) Assembly for GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS... even lower levels of BOEING. Aerospace tech and such.

8) Airline industry...yep...them too.

9) Computer and I.T. support.

10) Hospitality industry which use to pay workers well.....almost ALL GONE by Illegals.

11) Landscaping..which use to be a respected art form in ways and earned good money.... GONE. Landscaping was once a serious career until the cheap labor. Many younger people don't remember that.

12) GOVERNMENT JOBS. Yep you read that right. County level and city level people who wear suits and ties and have their own CUBICLES and phone lines. Guess what, many are here Illegally.

13) Retail.....many jobs that American college kids could take to help family....taken.

14) Security industry. Here in Los Angeles...almost all guys fresh off the boat from Israel, Russia, and South American countries for the smaller jobs.

15) Restaurant industry. Chefs, line chefs, cooks, waiters, even managers....taken.

16) Manufacturing and assembly...taken.

17) Cashier jobs for small businesses. Taken.

18) Almost all of the retail spaces in Downtown Los Angeles....GONE. I mean GONE. And filled with cheap crap from China to their heart's delight.

19) The whole "CITY OF INDUSTRY" here in California is FILLED with Illegal Immigrant labor.

20) Car Washes...which guys use to make tips off of back when I was young....GONE. People actually payed RENT and bills from working at a car wash at one time, can you believe it?

21) Go on CRAIGSLIST and submit a job in the "Los Angeles" section. See what kind of people will FLOOD your email. Just do it as a test. Then tell us what you find. Then tell those people in a return email that you use "E-VERIFY" for legal status. See how many of them stop calling. I dare you.

I could have listed MANY more jobs and industries. But the kick is, a place like Los Angeles does NOT CARE if you are Illegal or not. Many people don't understand this very BASIC truth of it. We are so SLAMMED with Illegals, that employers don't even care to run a check because nobody enforces it anyways.

Illegals and Legal Citizens can both get the SAME JOBS if they possess the same skill. Even Managerial and "suit and tie" jobs. It's not just "fruit pickers" and "gardeners" anymore. It's a whole underground economy.





[edit on 15-5-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]

EXACTLY!!!! I want a better life. How bout I robbed one of those lowlife blood draining vampires known as a bank? Do you think Id' get off if I said "I just want a better life for me and my kids"? No I would get put in fed prisone for the rest of my existance. Don't think it's the same? Well it is, they are stealing from us, they steal our educational system, our benefits, as far I am concerned they take the very food out of my kids' mouths because they're purchasing through food stamps, driving MY grocery bill higher...because of supply and demand!!!!!!!!

reply to post by lpowell0627

Our Federal laws specifically state that any person, regardless of citizenship, race, ethnicity,etc., that crosses across the border into the United States without the proper documentation, or any person that knowingly violates the "leave by" date on any temporary status in this country, has committed a felony.

This is false...being an illegal immigrant is not a felony.

That is what all the protests in 2006 were about...the legislation being considered wanted to make illegal immigrants felons...but that bill died.

If you think what you stated is FACT...please provide a source.

reply to post by drkid


Because they take our jobs. That's why we don't want them here. Do you also have zero understanding of what a job is? It's when a person trades his labor for money. People need money to live. Do you know what unemployment means? It means someone who is NOT employed. When you are not employed [when you don't have a job] you don't get money.

If illegals come here for jobs, that must mean there are jobs here to be had, right? Then why are so many American citizens unemployed? Because the Mexican citizens who are here ILLEGALY are taking them.

Illegal means something that is NOT legal. When you do something illegaly you are supposed to go to jail. If I broke into your house tomorrow [which is illegal] and stole your money and told you that I just wanted a better life for my family, would you forgive me?

You sound like the typical politician or illegal immigrant, in that you seem to have a 1st grade comprehension of the issue at hand.



Peace