"They come here for a better life" and "Jobs Americans Won't Do"

"THEY JUST WANT A BETTER LIFE"



I have heard a lot of this said lately regarding Illegal Immigrants.

I was wondering how this would sound as an excuse for any other criminal act or even a lowly misdemeanor. I don't think I've ever heard it used to excuse any other crime or breaking of the law.

"Officer...I stole that man's car because I wanted a better life!" hmmm...nope that doesn't sound right.

"Your Honor...I submit my Defendant robbed the bank because he was poor...and just wanted a better life"....nope....that doesn't work either.

"Your Honor....they broke into the house and stole jewelry because they just wanted a better life"...nope

"Officer...I was just speeding because I needed to get to my girlfriends house for a quickie...it helps me have a better life"....not that either.

"Officer....I'm driving drunk because I temporarily thought it would lead to a better life. I also sell crack and make a lot of money....for a better life of course."

So now that we see that cannot fly for an excuse, please STOP ALL PRETENDING it will jibe with REALITY.

Illegal Immigration...more than anything is a crime of RESOURCE. Yes, there are resources that every nation possesses. Some more than others depending on location. This is why we started TRADING between nations. Why entire economies were built around TRADE.

A nation allocates certain RESOURCES to it's citizens. It is done by Census, City Planning, State planning, budgets, banks, business. Just about EVERYTHING a nation and it's government does evolves around the need of it's citizens...even allocated Representatives to Congress.

Nationality is not about PRIDE in your Government, because politicians and Governments make bad choices that don't represent us. Nationality is about PRIDE in your HOST...your HOUSE. America is a HOME to it's citizens. It's our home at the MACRO level.

When a foreign entity invades, degrades, usurps, or migrates to the HOST country at an unexpected rate, RESOURCES get thrown out of alignment. RESOURCES that can be used for LEGAL hosts citizens, eventually get thrown to the ILLEGAL occupants.

Resources like jobs, hospitals, schools, taxes, property, VOTES, health care, public funds, land, food...it hits all levels.

A lot has been said about the fact that OUR (Americas) Illegals contribute BACK as much if not more than they take. I have yet to see a study which shows this definitely...I hold my breath.

Let's take the Mexican Illegal Immigrants. It's estimated that money sent to Mexico from Illegals here, has been in the hundreds of BILLIONS, since the early 90's, the onslaught from NAFTA. Aside from Mexico's oil business, America acts as it's welfare office. We basically help float Mexico's whole economy.

Aside from what we pay in expenses HERE to combat the problem, we are propping up another country by our dollars flying out to them. I think from all the money we've given, we've deserved a few Million acres of land by now.

Illegal Immigration is about affecting another persons HOST..dismantling it's allocated RESOURCES...and THIEVERY. Yes, it's more complex, but at it's base, it's thievery of another's sovereign right to their collective funds, resources, as well as individual right to equally share in it between citizens....us.

So let's go to another RESOURCE....JOBS.

"JOBS THAT AMERICAN WON"T DO"

In another thread I posted the jobs that I have observed go out the door here in Los Angeles and greater California. Since I have lived most of my life in Los Angeles in many different neighborhoods, have lived all over California too, and know it like the back of my hand. I feel qualified to report what I KNOW to be true about our economy.


Here is just a list from the top of my head of jobs "Americans" won't do":

1) HVAC installation. Heating and air conditioning....many Illegals in that field, I know them.

2) Digital cable and satellite installation...Illegals in that too.

3) MOST commercial and residential building companies along with day laborers. Many Journeyman level jobs that SPECIALIZE....Illegals took it over too.

4) Telecom industry.

5) Shipping and receiving.

6) Warehouse and manufacturing.

7) Assembly for GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS... even lower levels of BOEING. Aerospace tech and such.

8) Airline industry...yep...them too.

9) Computer and I.T. support.

10) Hospitality industry which use to pay workers well.....almost ALL GONE by Illegals.

11) Landscaping..which use to be a respected art form in ways and earned good money.... GONE. Landscaping was once a serious career until the cheap labor. Many younger people don't remember that.

12) GOVERNMENT JOBS. Yep you read that right. County level and city level people who wear suits and ties and have their own CUBICLES and phone lines. Guess what, many are here Illegally.

13) Retail.....many jobs that American college kids could take to help family....taken.

14) Security industry. Here in Los Angeles...almost all guys fresh off the boat from Israel, Russia, and South American countries for the smaller jobs.

15) Restaurant industry. Chefs, line chefs, cooks, waiters, even managers....taken.

16) Manufacturing and assembly...taken.

17) Cashier jobs for small businesses. Taken.

18) Almost all of the retail spaces in Downtown Los Angeles....GONE. I mean GONE. And filled with cheap crap from China to their heart's delight.

19) The whole "CITY OF INDUSTRY" here in California is FILLED with Illegal Immigrant labor.

20) Car Washes...which guys use to make tips off of back when I was young....GONE. People actually payed RENT and bills from working at a car wash at one time, can you believe it?

21) Go on CRAIGSLIST and submit a job in the "Los Angeles" section. See what kind of people will FLOOD your email. Just do it as a test. Then tell us what you find. Then tell those people in a return email that you use "E-VERIFY" for legal status. See how many of them stop calling. I dare you.

I could have listed MANY more jobs and industries. But the kick is, a place like Los Angeles does NOT CARE if you are Illegal or not. Many people don't understand this very BASIC truth of it. We are so SLAMMED with Illegals, that employers don't even care to run a check because nobody enforces it anyways.

Illegals and Legal Citizens can both get the SAME JOBS if they possess the same skill. Even Managerial and "suit and tie" jobs. It's not just "fruit pickers" and "gardeners" anymore. It's a whole underground economy.





[edit on 15-5-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]

CONTINUED:

TO add, I just want to make sure that the picture the media and such portray like gardeners, hotel maids, fruit pickers and such...is NOT ACCURATE at all.

I have known Illegals who pull the same amount of money, for the same work that a citizen will do. What people also need to REALLY understand is that they aren't even UNDERCUTTING the LEGAL workers anymore.

Employers are paying them the SAME wages as they would regular Americans. This NEEDS to be understood. It's because many employers simply don't care, can't care, and feel it's not their reponsibility. They pay them through other means. They don't need Social Security numbers. If they do, they get fake ones, which I can get for about $600 Dollars from a guy downtown (a good one). I can make fake history for billing and tenant history.

Many employers will just cut a check to the bank account owners name and slice it off of their payroll. There are many TRICKS that can be used.

Do you realize how much of Los Angeles County's economy is "under the table"? People that have not been 'in the trenches' do not know what goes on. It's worse than many are being told.


If you want to go further. Test it out on CRAIGSLIST.

Go to Craigslist and post in the JOBS OFFERED section for the Greater Los Angeles area. Tell them you are looking for someone to do assembly or something. Pick any job that sounds like your average "Joe" would do.


Run the ad and see what kind of people JUMP on it.


Then run the same ad saying that you check E-Verify for employment, do NOT hire Illegal Workers, and thoroughly check all Paperwork for work eligibility.

See how DIFFERENT the two end up.
[edit on 15-5-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


What I find funny in regards to your OP, people that say unregulated free markets do not work.

I have told them, go to California, you will see that black markets are thriving.

Cash jobs, under the table, etc etc etc.

I was a Site Super for a Land Development company based in Fresno.

Those that think that there are not illegals taking jobs that legal residents or citizens would not do are just blind.

Oh, as for the part of your OP. To me, if you do not harm another or infringe on their rights of Life, Liberty or Property, it is not a crime.

That being said, I am one of the few libertarians that believe our borders are not and should not ever be wide open.

For one, they are taking the fruits of labor that is paid into the government by those that pay into the system. Where the majority of illegal's do not. Hell, a lot of them play the trick of filing taxes and claiming maximum deductions and getting more money back than they paid in.

Some of them told me they do it. So sorry to folks if you do not believe these things, you have your head in the sand.

Last I heard. Counties around Fresno are around 25-50% unemployment.

No problems huh? Open your borders further and watch the country go even faster into destruction mode.

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW

Let's take the Mexican Illegal Immigrants. It's estimated that money sent to Mexico from Illegals here, has been in the hundreds of BILLIONS, since the early 90's, the onslaught from NAFTA. Aside from Mexico's oil business, America acts as it's welfare office. We basically help float Mexico's whole economy.

25 billion last year if I am not mistaking.
But can you prove all of that money is from illegals?


I wonder how much of that money is drug money or being sent by legal Mexican immigrants.

It is a legal transaction.

reply to post by endisnighe


Yes, I agree it is not a 'crime' technically. That's why I included misdemeanors and 'breaking the law' in my original post.

But as far as it being victimless....I could post another full length post about that alone. Illegal Immigration has no DIRECT victims, but I would propose the entirety of it has killed a lot of people indirectly.

A RESOURCE based crime is never victimless when the effect is felt years later.

It's a form of Genocide but slow....methodical....and under the radar.





[edit on 15-5-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


Well, to me I would think crossing a sovereign border by the vast numbers that the Mexicans have, could be considered an act of war.

Think about it.

If you add up all the illegal immigrants since say 1980. We have absorbed the size of Canada's population. Then with the children of the illegal immigrants. Add another 50%.

It is an invasion. Not a illegal immigrant issue. These estimates they have given. I think the ones by government are at like 12-15 million. IMO, double that and add in the children. My estimate, 35-55 million.

The population of Canada is at about 34 million people.

We have been hearing about how their damn Health Care so much this year I am sick of it.

We are paying for the population of Canada on our hospital bills.

That right their is a crime. Never mind. The illegals are stealing from me by costing me more in health care.

Frell this, I am not taking everything into consideration.

That just got me pissed.

reply to post by endisnighe


Being pissed is a start.

Second Line*

All of the illegals should be rounded up and held in FEMA camps until we can ship them to their nation of origin (who will receive a bill).

Rounding them up and holding them would immediately take them out of the job market, allowing the millions of unemployed Americans opportunities for employment.

Along with not occupying an American's job, they won't be collecting welfare or benefits while they are in the holding camps.

We could do at least two million a year if we made an effort and allowed rewards for entrepreneurs who want to get in on the thing. Many illegals would probably try to flee to another country or just return home and skip the not-so-fun period that comes with being caught and detained by the authorities.


*Does anyone else think we should round them up and ship them home en masse?


To be fair, all other countries would have our permission to ship home all the Americans who are illegally in their countries.



[edit on 15-5-2010 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Exuberant1



I don't believe in putting Illegals in camps, or even rounding them up.

Firstly, that would be a logistical nightmare. Secondly, it doesn't need to be done.

I say, go after ALL employers with a super task force for each county. Make ALL employees verify their Social Security (to also put the fraudsters and racketeers out). Employ a law that also is close to the Arizona law where upon LAWFUL CONTACT, all are shipped out, with penalties of no return to a number of years.

Bring troops home and station on lookout for every half mile.

300 troops could cover 300 miles of land.

Problem solved...

But this SIMPLE approach won't happen. Because the Elites WANT Illegal Immigration. This is all deliberate.


[edit on 15-5-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]

People should also know that many job listings now for managerial positions here in California are only taking resumes from people that can speak SPANISH.

I have a few friends that actually didn't get called back for a second interview because they didn't speak Spanish.

Doesn't sit well does it?

Originally posted by Exuberant1
All of the illegals should be rounded up and held in FEMA camps until we can ship them to their nation of origin (who will receive a bill).

Rounding them up and holding them would immediately take them out of the job market, allowing the millions of unemployed Americans opportunities for employment.

Along with not occupying an American's job, they won't be collecting welfare or benefits while they are in the holding camps.

We could do at least two million a year if we made an effort and allowed rewards for entrepreneurs who want to get in on the thing. Many illegals would probably try to flee to another country or just return home and skip the not-so-fun period that comes with being caught and detained by the authorities.


*Does anyone else think we should round them up and ship them home en masse?


To be fair, all other countries would have our permission to ship home all the Americans who are illegally in their countries.

I'm all for this.

Sure, lets get rid of illegals. Now, who wants to crawl down in sewer to clear a backup of feces?

what would the economy be like if all these businesses that employ people to do those "jobs americans won't do" all shut their doors, closed up or moved someplace else (another country) and sought all their labour then from these, could you then do without these same industries.

Divide and conquer. Oldest trick in the book.

Open your eyes people.

Borders and Sovereign nations MUST exist, with clear boundaries and defined economies.

It is a stop gap to one world collectivism, which is the true ENEMY of diversity. Forced inundation of Illegal Immigrants, and open border policy are the REAL "divide and conquer".

Offshore Bankers LOVE open borders. Corporate pigs do too. Lobbyists love them. Politicians on either side love them. Wealthy Elites that don't even come outside of their protected estates LOVE them.

Socialists LOVE them while claiming the whole world is a 'work force"...like we're all cattle who should compete for jobs.

Anarchists LOVE open borders, because they hate a structured Centralized Government and feel that "borders suck".

Rich Republican business Moguls LOVE them too.

Democrats LOVE them for votes and future votes of their offspring and have no real compassion for Illegals in the first place like they claim.

Illegals LOVE them (obviously)

Seems like I'm missing someone here....hmmm...maybe the average American?

Nah, that would be too obvious.

Which goes on to my next question. How come all the 'shady' characters seem to support open borders?




[edit on 15-5-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]

What would it be like if all the Immigrants in the world came here to outbid us on labor, drive wages lower, and fill every industry with themselves?

Wanna compete with a guy from Guyana who never made $100 bucks in his life?

I bet you'll lose that bid for a job.

Wanna compete with a guy from China who's never even taken a dump on a working toilet with indoor plumbing?

You'll lose.

Let's say a foreign worker comes here and agrees to $4.00 an hour.

Then someone even poorer than him agrees to less than THAT?

How low can you go?


Chime in Red Shirts...let's hear about "competition" and "work ethic". Let's hear how "work should be available to anyone who wants a job".

Wanna live in a Third World nation? Let's do it.

It's not like Americans really even have a chance of being hired and trained to do these jobs when everyone working there only speaks Spanish. Try to get a job with a bunch of people who only speak Spanish. They will laugh in your face.

Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW


What would it be like if all the Immigrants in the world came here to outbid us on labor, drive wages lower, and fill every industry with themselves?

Seems like that's what the Mexicans have done here. In farming, construction, and government, Mexicans take all the jobs. I should have skipped university and just learned Spanish.

I hear "they take the jobs americans won't do' all the damn time. It's ridiculous because i'm willing to lower my self worth and work anywhere.

It's so different now things are not a good as they used to be huh?

Perhaps if those Bankers who where responsible for putting all the small businesses out on the scrap heap, and all those Trillions of $ were not used to bail them out so they could give millions away in bonuses things may be different.

You think America is the only country with an immigration problem? we have the same here in the UK, in fact there is a TV show here called UK Border force, they go around the country rounding them up and handing out fines of £10.000 to those who employ them, but I will also say this, they are not responsible for all our crime, most of that is down to British Citizens.

Also on that show it has immigration control at our borders, checking everyone in and out now as well, if anyone who has ever seen it will back me up on this, there are a heck of a lot of Americans who enter the Country and are rounded up because they stay and make themselves illegals, they Work but nobody blames them for our unemployment problems, and we don't want to round them up and lock them in any camps because we want too.

They get rounded up and put on a plane back home, and a lot of them are simply running from the American Law enforcement agency's, they are not responsible for our Countries problems, they are just here wanting to be in the UK, if they work they cant claim benefits, they wouldn't anyhow because they would be instantly flagged as illegal.

Americans never seemed to be so bothered because they did all the jobs Americans didn't want to do, but now TSHTF, Americans want to do them after all, why not blame it on those responsible in the first place, IE the George DUBYA Admin, you remember him right? the guy who went to war under false pretence? the guy who let the Bankers get away with Murder, who allowed Trillions of $ to be given to company's owned by friends of his family.

Believe it or not, none of these problems happened the day Obama became President, not even close, it happened the day you all woke up late and had found your rights had disappeared, you all scream freedom, yet don't want anyone else to have it because your all experts now at all the crap jobs.

You allow the extreme right wing fools to impregnate your minds with propaganda, to distract you from the real reasons for your Country's woes, you have become MOE from the Simpsons, if it happens anywhere else in the World that's fine, it happens on your doorstep you want the Worlds sympathy.

Yet here we are, you want them all to be rounded up and placed into FEMA camps, camps I might add most of you denied even existed not so long ago, if it Aint American then we don't want to know right? guess what America the rest of us have the same problems, the difference is we don't blame everyone else for our problems, and I challenge you to show the rest of us a single crime carried out by Immigrants only, just one - any crime.

California was the Worlds 4th largest economy, they had illegal immigrants back then didn't they? so what changed, did you suddenly get an influx of Millions of people? or did the World suffer a financial crisis like the rumours say? apparently there where some Politicians and Bankers who took everything for themselves, including all your taxes and ours, it seemed to cause a few problems around the World, but we all know the real story was the Families who where struggling to feed themselves, heard that they may get a hot meal over the border, and they may also get away from these guys who where having gun battles over drugs headed for the habits of Americans.

But as we all know its all just the rumour mill right?

Until you get real and begin to blame the real problems, nothing is ever going to get better, shooting the innocent wont solve your problems, all these people want is the same what you demand and expect, if the borders where reversed I wonder just how many of you would be heading south around now?

All I can say is WHEN IT SUITS HUH! your such a young Country but you will get better as you grow up I expect, there flame that, but stop bloody moaning when the rest of the World has the same problems.