"They come here for a better life" and "Jobs Americans Won't Do"

reply to post by jam321


Comparing La Raza to the KKK is apples & oranges. The KKK was a fringe group- VERY fringe, even in the South. I don't believe it was ever their (at least) stated intent to infiltrate & take over (a portion of) the US. Further, there were FAR fewer people who would be willing to sympathize, entertain or even tolerate the KKK. Possibly on a very minute scale as far as "protecting their way of life" was concerned, but not really more than a change in status.
Black people were BROUGHT here.
They did the same jobs, basically, that they had always done; only as free men with the capability of benefiting from their labors.
They "took" nothing from anyone. And there certainly wasn't any significant increase in crime (if At All) that resulted from their being free.
The only possible comparison would be in the cultural differences (which to me, is invalid, since they did not seek to IMPOSE their culture on their neighbors) and that they were very poor and consequently lived in shacks many times.
I know of no instance, prior to the advent of affirmative action, that they might have "taken" a job from a "white" man.
The fact is, they *were* LEGAL citizens of the United States.

Originally posted by mryanbrown

Originally posted by RRokkyy

Originally posted by mryanbrown

Originally posted by RRokkyy
The value an immigrant brings to the country is determined by their IQ and talents. A person with an IQ of 70 can work a low paying job or be a thief, drug dealer, pimp,extortionist,prison inmate or gang banger. They all dont want to work low paying jobs. Low IQ immigrants will have low IQ children and lots of them. The wealth of a country is directly linked to the hereditary IQ of the population.Blaming their failures on the educational system is a liberal euphemism that they have been repeating since 1965.

Stating that it's plainly hereditary like that is shenanigans...

There's a huge divide amongst the academic community as to whether it even is hereditary. And those that claim it even is, hide behind shifting numbers and data.

It's a theory, an unproven one at that.

Love ATS "facts".

You are just posting disinformation.
You say they drop out because of Shenanigans.
Thats your theory:Shenanigans.
Yes its the Shenanigans that does it too them.

Yes indeed it must be the Shenanigansthat causes the PHD graduate class of LA University to be 60% Chinese.
Must be the Shenanigans that makes the Jews excel in academia.
Must be the Shenanigans that makes the IQ of Germany 105 and the
Shenanigans that makes the IQ of Japan and China 106.

Shenanigans proves that everyone is exactly equal.
Yeah thats the ticket.

Citations? or just more racist stereotypes? It's still racism if it's in their "favor".

So you are saying I am a Racist for saying the Chinese,Germans and Jews are smart and have a higher IQ than others. Its a fact.

Your post shows that you are interested in making a personal attack rather
than discussing the subject which is Taboo.
The French forbid all discussions of race.
In fact they want to prohibit marrying within ones own race.
You would like that.

Originally posted by DogsDogsDogs
reply to post by jam321

 

Comparing La Raza to the KKK is apples & oranges. The KKK was a fringe group- VERY fringe, even in the South.

Oh no it was not fringe. Don't try to rewrite history now.

The second Klan was a formal fraternal organization, with a national and state structure. At its peak in the mid-1920s, the organization claimed to include about 15% of the nation's eligible population, approximately 4–5 million men. Internal divisions, criminal behavior by leaders, and external opposition brought about a collapse in membership, which had dropped to about 30,000 by 1930. It finally faded away in the 1940s..

That isn't fringe.
en.wikipedia.org...
able2know.org...

There were Presidents of this country in the KKK. Wilson probably being the best known sympathizer.

www.pbs.org...

Fringe? Hardly. Black people weren't shaking in fear for no reason back in the day.

a disgusting and racist thread

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs

The KKK was a fringe group

OK, I will let you have your way of rewritten history. Just remember that there is no territory in the US that anybody has taken over. All land still belongs to Uncle Sam.

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW

11) Landscaping..which use to be a respected art form in ways and earned good money.... GONE. Landscaping was once a serious career until the cheap labor. Many younger people don't remember that.

I've a lot of personal experience here. I can honestly say that I didn't mind the illegals I worked with, as people, they were cool. They taught me some Spanish, invited me over to their house for beers (because I was the only one who tried to learn Spanish with them). They didn't get paid less than any of the Americans, and they got the exact same benefits.. and they didn't get paid under the table. So I wondered for a while why the company even went out of their way to hire them. They even had rooms above the shop to live in. Well I asked the owners son, and he basically said because they can be hired, and fired very easily and for no reason. That they were used to work that lasted a short period.

When I do private contracting work for peoples yards and stuff, a lot of times people just think that Mexicans are cheaper, when they usually are not.. it's just the perception and they rake it in. I usually undercut them anyways. They are faster though, they usually show up with 3 or 4 guys to do a easy job I do by my self lol.

The only market that I know for a fact Illegals work cheaper than Americans is farm work and migrant farm hands.. like picking fruit, they usually get paid on the amount of produce they gather, not an hourly wage. I have a friend who owns a winery and hires Mexicans to pick the grapes and pays them per bucket of grapes they bring back. They all dash out as fast as they can to beat the others and fill their buckets the fastest and most.. and some fill their bottoms with mud . i don't know many Americans that would do that kind of work.

reply to post by SpectreDC
I can't belive anyone would make a statement like this.There are many in the auto industery,check it if you have the guts to find yourself wrong.

Keep your leg and pull the foot on it out of your mouth.

Originally posted by atzmaz

You sir are a racist or at least not very well read in the history of this country. No doubt you are not of the native people of this country either and according to your logic your ancestors never should have come here for "a better life.

Yep, it's easy to dismiss someone as a 'racist'. It's the latest rage isn't it? My ancestors ALL came here through ELLIS ISLAND. Our family has all the records to prove it. That was the LEGAL means back then of entry to this country. They were given admissions to hop on the 'boat', only a few hundred thousand at a time.

My Grandfather came here at 19 years old and spent 3 weeks in quarantine with his brother....the LEGAL way.

It irks me to no end people feeling so nationalist about this country when they forget their own family several generations back was in the same situation as many of these immigrants. Most of the people who come here would rather stay in their own countries and live happy, healthy, and productive lives.

Says who? You? You've personally interviewed all the dead 'ancestors' and they told you they would have rather stayed home? Well I can tell you that my Grandfather kissed the ground when he got here and NEVER looked back. And what is wrong with "Nationalism"? To want to protect your home land, to want to see all it's people happy and productive?

You're comparing XENOPHOBIA to NATIONAL PRIDE I think. Two different things.

Why don't they? Its because the policies of our government in the long term have made many of their countries of origin unstable, corrupt and dangerous places where they cannot work, raise a family, or live.

So every Illegal Immigrant is here because of OUR policies? Hmm. I can see NAFTA as a BIG contributor to Mexican influx (which has been proven) but that was 1993 roughly. It's 2010...how much longer should America pay the price of that policy?

Should we all just give them the lower half of the U.S. as compensation?

Growing up on the border has given me a great appreciation for the immigrants and their plight in America. They are willing to work, longer, harder, and even take much of the abuse that people give them to earn sub par wages just to support their families. If you needed help they would cook you a meal, give you the shirt off their back and do anything they could as thats how most of these people were raised.

Growing up in Los Angeles has given me an opposite experience than you...I have no 'appreciation'. Go walk Downtown Los Angeles, Walk through most of the "Hispanic" neighborhoods here in this county. Be sure to walk there at night by yourself or with a pretty woman too. Or get an apartment in one of the MANY neighborhoods the Illegals flocked to here. Live there for a while....and then tell us of your "appreciation".

We need to directly address this issue and hopefully someday these people won't have to settle for mowing your lawn or working picking your food to keep this economy competitive with SE Asia.

Wow, throwing out the "mowing lawn" and "picking food" meme?

You've been lied to buddy. You think they ONLY do those jobs and my OP listed ALL THE JOBS industries they've taken over. You're now mimicking that LIE to all of us here.

And I'm sure if all the lawn mowers left, Americans would figure a way to cut their own grass....before Jack and the Bean Stalk grows out and consumes us. Or do you believe that only Mexicans know how to turn a lawnmower on?

Blaming immigrants for the problems of America is using them as a scapegoat

Who is blaming Illegals for all the problems? Why can't we discuss it as "A" problem? It's not "THE" problem. But part of it.

and I'm sure the greedy bankers, oil execs and corrupt politicians bleeding this country dry

Only sensible thing you've said thus far.

But then you revert to mindless drivel here>>>

This is how the Nazi's did it...blame someone else for all the problems.

Compare your opponent to a "NAZI". It trumps all things doesn't it? Too bad it's the last straw of desperation.

On the other hand if you really feel strongly I'm sure there will be plenty of room for you in Arizona after they are done driving all the immigrants out.

I already know people in California that are thinking of moving there.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I worked with the Migrant Workers in the fields for a week. Many of them have Visas to work, so they aren't really "Illegals". People think all brown skin people that pick the fruit are "Illegals". Many have work permits...which is legal.

But they kick ass. Nobody can outlast those guys on the fields in my experience. I've done harder jobs than that, but I have to say that working the fields is some hard stuff. Not for the weak of heart.

I agree, things need to change and illegal immigration needs to finally be stopped. It is nice to help other people, but when it is at our own expense taking food away from our families and the mouths of our children that is ridicules.

Originally posted by RRokkyy
So you are saying I am a Racist for saying the Chinese,Germans and Jews are smart and have a higher IQ than others. Its a fact.

Your post shows that you are interested in making a personal attack rather
than discussing the subject which is Taboo.
The French forbid all discussions of race.
In fact they want to prohibit marrying within ones own race.
You would like that.

Only the ignorant presume to know anything about a person on an issue they have never inquired about.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Citations? or just more racist stereotypes? It's still racism if it's in their "favor".

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


I can’t say I agree with your analogies in that analogies gloss over too many facets of an argument and can be misleading. But I get the point it is against the law. I agree if illegal immigrants utilize resources intended for citizens who pay into the system and send the dollars out of the country; it is a net loss for the US. We really cannot afford that right now. But instead of treating a symptom, we need to treat the disease: employers who hire illegals. This is another version of sending jobs overseas except the business gets to stay right here. Here are some folks trying to do the right thing since it seems the government will not enforce the laws we already have.

wehirealiens.com...

I do not hold personal animosity against poor people coming here looking for work even if it is against the law. If I lived across the border and life sucked for my family, it would not take much to convince me to look here for employment. I call anyone in the same position who would not seek the most obvious relief for their family due to some moral high ground a liar or obscenely separated from reality.

I would offer if we catch illegal’s here looking for work, let’s put them to work. Instead of just sending them back across the border for free, they need to cover the cost of that enforcement. There are a ton of smaller municipalities on hard time right now that need roads repaired, parks maintained, etc. Heck, they can even construct stronger border safeguard measures. Instead of some employer getting the profit at the expense of the tax payer, the tax payer gets a return for their dollar.

The argument that they only do the jobs Americans will not do is flawed. Americans would do any job if the pay was right. The illegal’s version of “right” just happens to be lower than most Americans. Thus, the lure for employers to hire them. It has little to do with anything else.

I have not mentioned the drug trade yet. That is another story. I feel little humanity on this subject. I am talking Hellfire’s and AC-130s. End of subject.

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs


We have talked about this before DDD. You are spot on with the idea illegal immigration and all its ills (pardon the pun) is a symptom of a larger disease. I would add that the prices of every day items have gone up at insane rates (e.g. homes, cars, medical care, etc.) while the number of jobs to afford those skyrocketing costs are going the other direction. I fear the example of 5 or 6 people living in a single apartment may well become the norm instead of what we see now as ridiculous.

the economy won't be able to keep up, 10 million illegals and more each year.

where then do you stop, should you wait until no more are left across the border, might as well just become a free for all country and allow anyone to come through, let the africans with their poverty get some free benefits, allow the crowded chinese to grab your land, bring over the asians and more to take your resources.

who needs tax dollars or money for investments when you can have an unlimited supply of illegal and threshold free labour as you want.

you might as well just give it all away, no use hanging on.

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


Here in Ga I know a town where you can buy yourself anything with a picture for the right amount of money, the last time I heard from the immigrants with 500 dollars you could get a driver license, a working permit and a even a SS number.

One of the problem that the school system had to deal with was the SS from the children that were no born in the US from immigrants that to participate in the free school lunches programs the numbers would not match.

Even in one occasion I was called by the school system to identified the SS numbers that were false, then when I refuse to do that I was told that I could be held accountable knowing that it was false information, I told them that enforcing migration laws wasn't my job, and challenge them to go ahead and do it.

Nothing happen . . . the children still got their free lunches with false SS numbers.





[edit on 15-5-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs

The KKK was a fringe group- VERY fringe, even in the South.

We need super sized LOL faces for statements like this.

There just isn't anything else to say to you...just clueless.

reply to post by redgy


The economy is not able to support the immigrants now in the nation, just look at the statistic per county and state of how much of the city and state budgets goes to support the illegals in their individual states.

Wait when the HCR hits the tax payer in their pockets as it will and we have to support the Medicaid for all the illegals in the nation under Obama now public option, a bigger an bloated "Medicaid"

He just passed the burden of that debt into the tax payers, along with the bail out to the private insurance businesses.

reply to post by jam321


You're correct in the aspect that I should have said IS instead of "was". Pardon me, please.

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


Wow. Direct precise and correct. Starred & flagged.

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
Find me an American willing to work for 7.25 an Hour X 10-12 hours + a Part time Job.

Immigrant work two jobs and still don't have enough money to afford all the luxuries you spoiled ungrateful Americans have.



[edit on 15-5-2010 by WXBackdoor]

Great another turd who thinks I should roll over and take that crappy
S# pay and live like a mexican. Just great... Give up your job and work for $7.25/hr, ANUS !!!!! If you think it is good enough for us to do just because we aren't given the luxury of further education like your stupid rich spoiled A** brat self did so we should just roll over and take it up the A**? No thank you, why don't you, You go first, loser. Why should I take that pay when I have been a hard working, ethical, bust my A** worker for fifteen plus years in retail, Why TF should I keep getting minimum wage you turd????


YOU FIRST!!!!!


I'm so sick of hearing this crap. NO!!! WE SHOULD NOT FRIKKING WORK FOR THAT PAY AFTER FIFTEEN YEARS OF EXPERIENCE!!!! THIS IS SO MUCH BS, THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO LIKE IT THIS WAY IS THE CORPORATIONS WHO ARE MAKING A KILLING ON THIS, KNOWING WE HAVE NO GD CHOICE BUT TO TAKE THIER S# PAY OR STAY UNEMPLOYED, NO THEIR EFFING BOTTOM SHOULD NOT EVER NOT EVER EVER EVER BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN PAYING A FAIR WAGE AND SORRY, BUT MINIMUM WAGE IS BS; IT IS NOT A FAIR WAGE TO A CITIZEN OF THE USA WHO'S PAYING INTO THE TAXES AND USUALLY GETTING SCREWED OUT OF ANY KIND OF RETURN!!!!!!! IN FACT IT'S A BIG EFFING SLAP IN THE FACE!!!!!!!



[edit on 15-5-2010 by ldyserenity]

[edit on 15-5-2010 by ldyserenity]

[edit on 15-5-2010 by ldyserenity]