Investigators: Obama using Connecticut Soc. Sec. Number!!

reply to post by kinda kurious


My apologies. I thought that this thread was well known since it shot to the front page of ATS very quickly.

9 indicted On Charges of Accessing Obama's Records

They accessed the records from Department of Education computer.
Student loan records require Social security numbers.
WND runs a social security number from CT.
9 people get arrested for accessing his records.

Again, I would argue that they accessed his student loan records and sold the information to WND.

reply to post by Dark Ghost

Actually, there is proof that his name was at least at one time Barry Soetoro.

Ok...show us.

Why make a claim like that without providing a link to this "proof"???

reply to post by kinda kurious
Big star on your last post! We are nothing if we can't be civil.

I think in the end, nothing will come of this SSN conspiracy, if not because there isn't anything to find, nothing will be allowed to see the light of day.

reply to post by kinda kurious


Calling me an idiot does nothing more than show your argument is losing momentum. When all else fails, blame the source and call the poster names.

Sure, that makes what you say credible.

There are a number of threads, and sources, linked directly above your post asking for that same information again. If we duplicated every single post on ATS on every page, we would never get anywhere in an actual discussion.

This is why we encourage members to read an entire thread before posting.

Seek and ye shall find.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Ok...show us.

Why make a claim like that without providing a link to this "proof"???

If you are asking for a court document that says "Barack Obama will now be known legally as Barry Soetoro" then my links will not satisfy you. I believe there are enough references to him using this name to suggest that he did in fact change his name or "use it" literally as his name while living in Indonesia.

Another link you might find interesting:
Barry Soetoro

[edit on 14/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
1) Maybe this will be a good introduction for you:
Meet the 'chubby boy with the curly hair'

Interesting piece. That's a new one and it's always good to get more information. However, that's not proof that he changed his name or that HE ever used the name Soetoro after he was sent back to Hawaii. Of course he used that name in school because his step-father probably filled out the registration paper. But there's no proof that his legal name was ever Soetoro.

2) "birther" is used mainly in a derogatory manner on these boards.

Unfortunately, I think you are right. I don't use it as a derogatory term. It's like "Truther". To me, it just means someone who thinks Obama wasn't born in the US. I don't know if you feel this way or not (I haven't read the entire thread).

I think this SS story is bunk, though. It's all supposition. There are so many assumptions piled on top of other assumptions that one really has to stretch to believe that it's true. They have to REALLY want to believe and be willing to believe without any proof whatsoever.

If only they would demand as much proof of this SS story as they do about his birth, then NO ONE would believe it. But it fits the Anti-Obama agenda, so people lap it up. Proof be damned! Something for critical thinkers to .. think about.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

Calling me an idiot does nothing more than show your argument is losing momentum. When all else fails, blame the source and call the poster names.

How funny. That was as much directed at myself as well as "birthers."
I am kept busy chasing down known falsehoods, so yes I too am an idiot, I should know better. It was meant in the spirit of :bnghd:

Geez some people are easily rattled. I seem to recall Skeptic Overlord had a recent thread about such things: The Rise Of The ATS Invertebrate: or, it takes a spine to be a conspiracy theorist.

Honestly your link / theory seems plausible, however unproven since you don't know what info was obtained.



[edit on 14-5-2010 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

My apologies. I thought that this thread was well known since it shot to the front page of ATS very quickly.

9 indicted On Charges of Accessing Obama's Records

They accessed the records from Department of Education computer.
Student loan records require Social security numbers.
WND runs a social security number from CT.
9 people get arrested for accessing his records.

Again, I would argue that they accessed his student loan records and sold the information to WND.

That isn't an "argument" that is wild speculation.

The WND article says where they got this supposed SSN from...from that woman's crazy search based off of variants of Obama's name. And supposedly it checks out with the Selective Service search....yet no one can verify that EXCEPT ONE WEBSITE because the search on Obama is being over loaded.

No where in the article does it state they got this SSN from some secret unnamed source with access to his personal records...if that is what you truly believe...then you have to admit that the article is already lying about it.

The earliest access to his student loan records was in 2007...latest was in 2009...do you really think if they found something they would of been quiet this long?

You will believe what you want to believe...LOGIC will not get in your way...you are a die hard birther with a hate for a man...logic and reasoning will not work with you.

I'll make a bet with you though....I bet Obama never gets impeached over the birther issue.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Dark Ghost

 

Actually, there is proof that his name was at least at one time Barry Soetoro.

Ok...show us.

Why make a claim like that without providing a link to this "proof"???

I checked on the Soetoro story on snopes, at the bottom of the article they talk about how B.O. was registered in an Indonesian school as Barry Soetoro. They said that the fact that he was registered by his step-father as an Indonesian citizen does not make him ineligible to be POTUS, that's true enough. But they go along with the story that he was enrolled at the school as Barry Soetoro.

www.google.com... 8mntS7L_E4H68AbKq-X9Cg&usg=AFQjCNHyBUEY0UA6aL6aTCSlK3tg6AavKw



[edit on 14-5-2010 by butcherguy]

reply to post by Dark Ghost

I believe there are enough references to him using this name to suggest that he did in fact change his name or "use it" literally as his name while living in Indonesia.

He can "USE" the name all he wants...that is not proof that he ever legally changed his name.

How can you not see this?

I grew up with a kid that used his mothers last name and a nickname as his first name. I remember the first time I was in a class with him (after knowing him for years) and the teacher was taking attendence on the first day. She read out his real name that I had never heard before and I looked around to see if a new kid was in the class...until he raised his hand...then told her that he goes by his nickname and mom's last name. She made a note of it...never hear his "real" name for the rest of the year.

It's not dishonest, it's not illegal, it is a kid probably trying to fit in. So kids don't ask "why isn't your last name the same as your parents"...and using a name like Barry so kids don't make fun of a funny name like "Barack". Or maybe Barry was his mom's nickname for him....I really don't know.


But THIS IS NOT PROOF....people need to stop claiming they have PROOF of something when it is NOT PROOF.

Yes...PROOF would be a court document showing he changed his name. An article saying "He went by the name Barry Soetoro when he was a child" IS NOT PROOF.


You just damage your own credibility when you make statments like that and you can't back them up.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Why is it, that nearly 9 years after 9/11, people can compile video and obtain witness testimony TODAY and post it all over ATS and it gets lapped up because people WANT to believe 9/11 was an inside job.

Using a witness statement 9 years after the fact is certainly no more credible than saying the 9 people arrested were caught for selling the information to WND.

Both are theories. Neither can ever be proven concretely.

You can never prove what a witness saw -- it's their word and opinion.
You can never prove WND paid for that SS# -- not unless someone takes them to court.

Further, you can never really prove a source since they are protected by the news outlet if they choose to leave them anonymous.

Everything about Obama gets sucked into a birther debate.

Obtaining a social security number from CT has nothing to do with claiming he was born in Kenya. Why is it that we can't have a discussion about something without having to be labelled one thing or another?

Something I don't understand about the registration form for the Indonesian school that he attended. The school was St. Francis of Assisi....

Yet the religion of Barry is listed as Islam?

Not saying it's not possible, just not typical, I think.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Another link you might find interesting:
Barry Soetoro

Again, thanks.

I was reading through the comments following that article and came across this one.

We Muslims- in this case moderate Sunni (Sugfi to be precise) , will soon be the world’s largest religious group- within 5-10 years overtaking the Catholics and the Hindus.

Barrack Obama was called Barry Soetoro- as his mother Ann Dunham married Soetoro and Indonesian law requires the existing offspring to take the name of the father.

Barrack Obama aka Barry Soetoro, was not a Muslim but was registered as a Muslim – following Indonesian regulation of children being registered under the religion of the father, Muslim.

This is what I believe to be the truth. Simply because I have no compelling reason to believe otherwise.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
Thank you for that.
Answers my above question.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

1) Maybe this will be a good introduction for you:
Meet the 'chubby boy with the curly hair'

That was awesome! Thanks so much. I had 4 minutes of life just sitting around, not wasted on anything. Not any more! What an awesome link. I just have one teeny, tiny, little, itsy bitsy, minuscule, infinitesimally minute problem with it.

See, I asked if you had any PROOF. Maybe I did not ask it the right way? Anyway, I guess I better ask again. I hope I am still being polite enough.

Thanks for answering my request for proof with an article lacking proof and all but do you have any proof that he has changed his name?

2) "birther" is used mainly in a derogatory manner on these boards. It is used as a label to stereotype somebody with suspicions about Barack Obama's past. As you have seen, it was assumed that I belonged to this group because I have questions about the man's past. Once you are assumed to be a part of this mindset, your views are taken less seriously and you are treated generally with less respect than you would had they not made the association.

Not sure I follow. There are people that have questions about Obama's origins. Obviously that counts as a group. That group is referred to often in conversation. "Birther" just seems like shorthand for "people that for some reason refuse to believe Obama was born in Hawaii in spite of all the evidence he was and the huge lack of evidence he was not."

Do you have a name you would people to use for them? If you have a better way to refer to them, please share. Seems like a grand opportunity for you to make history here. Take the reigns.

Originally the Tea Party refered to itself as Tea Baggers because old white folks do not know what that means. Well, they did not know. They do now and now they insist that is not what they are called. Take your shot. Become the 're-brander' here and now. Just as someone decided Tea-Bagger should give way to Tea Party Member, you can change Birther to something way cooler.

Any ideas you have would be awesome.



[edit on 14/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Again, thanks.

I was reading through the comments following that article and came across this one.

We Muslims- in this case moderate Sunni (Sugfi to be precise) , will soon be the world’s largest religious group- within 5-10 years overtaking the Catholics and the Hindus.

Barrack Obama was called Barry Soetoro- as his mother Ann Dunham married Soetoro and Indonesian law requires the existing offspring to take the name of the father.

Barrack Obama aka Barry Soetoro, was not a Muslim but was registered as a Muslim – following Indonesian regulation of children being registered under the religion of the father, Muslim.

This is what I believe to be the truth. Simply because I have no compelling reason to believe otherwise.

But where did the "temporary use" of this other name stop? If he went to the doctor and was prescribed medicine, was his name Barack Obama or Barry Soetoro? What about when his mother used some form of government service that required her son's full name? Can you see how the lines of "oh he just said it was his name" become problematic when you consider these examples?

Also note that if it was the law of Indonesia that his name be the same as his father's, then is it not logical to conclude that his name while living in Indonesia would have been legally recognised as Barry Soetoro?

[edit on 14/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
He can "USE" the name all he wants...that is not proof that he ever legally changed his name.

Then how come, in this lawsuit that was dismissed, does it never reference the fact that Barry Soetoro doesn't exist. In other words, it simple states that Barry Soetoro was served the legal papers. How could they serve a man papers that doesn't exist?

If someone sued you, and they filed your name incorrectly, it would be adjusted to reflect your legal name.

I am not using this as proof, I am simply questioning, why, if this isn't his name, is it not corrected throughout the entire suit?

For example:

RETURN OF SERVICE/AFFIDAVIT of Summons and Complaint Executed. JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR served on 1/6/2009, answer due 1/26/2009 (nmw, )

So....Biden was served.

RETURN OF SERVICE/AFFIDAVIT of Summons and Complaint Executed. BARRY SOETORO served on 1/6/2009, answer due 1/26/2009 (nmw, )

and

NOTICE of Appearance by Robert Felix Bauer on behalf of BARRY SOETORO, JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR (Bauer, Robert)

....and Barry Soetoro was served.

If that was the incorrect name, wouldn't there be a correction in the official court transcripts? Granted, the judge dismissed it against Obama, but that is the only reference to Obama in the transcript.

Obviously, people knew that Barry Soetoro IS Obama, otherwise they would not have been able to serve him AND they would not have been able to defend a man that doesn't exist.

Source:HOLLISTER v. SOETORO

Originally posted by butcherguy
Thank you for that.
Answers my above question.

It's not proof, just a comment some guy made. Just to be clear. But it makes logical sense and it's what I already suspected from my own research on the subject.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


What type of information will you accept as proof? I get what you are saying, but if you are asking for an official court transcript then I admit I cannot provide it. I have read many accounts of Obama being referred to and named as Barry Soetoro. Why don't you type "Barry Soetoro" into the Wikipedia search field and see where it redirects to?

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Honestly your link / theory seems plausible, however unproven since you don't know what info was obtained.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by kinda kurious]

Seeing as how my argument was that my theory was as plausible as any other, I am glad that we now agree.

Nobody can ever prove what information was obtained from any source because it's protected by said source.

In order to use this argument, you would have to discredit every single item on ATS that uses an unnamed source or uses undisclosed information.

Much like CNN saying: "An inside source told us...."

Are you willing to go back and stay true to this argument throughout ATS or is this simply only going to apply to me and/or anti-Obama threads?