Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

Originally posted by muzzleflash

So you are saying there is for sure a legit masonic related Knights Templar group *not rogues*.

York Rite. Claiming a lineage and proving it aren't the same thing.

In any case, none of this is news, muzzleflash (at least I hope it isn't news to you). However, as has been said time and time and time again, this person wouldn't have put anywhere near the time in to have achieved that degree.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
And you admit that this guy posting, has no way to have gotten there into this meeting.

Well, You just admitted a lot there.

Ok so the Knights Templar still exists, and only master masons are allowed in the meetings?

Thanks for revealing so much!

I'll write that down on a stick-it note.

Because wikipedia is such an esoteric source.

OMG, read page two of this flyer they were handing out.

www.iogtconferences.com...

Holy crap!

"A Five - Point Plan to Create a One-World Spirituality"

That is scary scary stuff seriously.

They then list 5 points that they want to overthrow the current religious order of the world, and merge religions into a ONE WORLD RELIGION.


This is getting way deeper and freaky for sure. They are 100% out of their minds.

They said "there are many ways to spirituality", then they claim "bla bla Goddess traditions". Well seems to me the only way in their view is the Goddess junk... so they don't think there are multiple paths to enlightenment, ONLY THEIR WAY. (Religious Cult).

Also, the meeting is named this.

"International Conference about the Mission of Initiatic Societies."

So is this like a meeting for ALL Initiatic Societies to gather together under one roof?

Or are they full of crap and hyping their group as something it is not?

This really could turn into a major doozie, but it's hard to say just yet.

I would like to know how influential this group is. Are the real movers and shakers participating in this stuff??

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon


In any case, none of this is news, muzzleflash (at least I hope it isn't news to you).

Because wikipedia is such an esoteric source.

LOL, Sorry you misunderstood me.

I was being Totally Sarcastic about that. Maybe next time ill toss up a /sarcasm.

Or maybe I should change my signature to "Warning Almost Always being Sarcastic and Making Bad Jokes!"

Wooohoo!!! Oh man that was a good laugh...


Before I snort the rest of my Coca-Cola through my nose let me just make a few point which have probably already been made.

Freemasons are not Knights Templar. Nowhere. Never.

The York Rite of Freemasonry confers a Knight Templar Order (which I have received), but because Masonic Knights Templar are Freemasons it is not necessarily true the other way around.

There are many groups that claim Templar heritage (SMOTJ etc). Masonic Knights Templar don't claim exclusive heritage of the KT, but we use their principles and ceremonies to guide us in our Christian journey.


OK I'm good now. I will go back and finish reading.

reply to post by muzzleflash

I would like to know how influential this group is. Are the real movers and shakers participating in this stuff??

The Original Poster claims that a number of easily recognized luminaries were there, that we would all know by face.

It appears that the OP had little idea what he was stumbling into or it's significance, and the conferences international scope of attendees, could have certainly created a need for additional interpreters.

Coupled with the ferocious level the ATS Brotherhood of Mason's is putting into Vincent, I would say, that there is something to Vincent's story.

The Masons are in fact a fifth column Roman Legion and part of the building block system of hierarchal control, intent on giving us a One World Government and religion.

So, I suppose anything is possible with such easily manipulated individuals.

The Saxons/Normans/Danish are most definately decendants of Ephraim & Manasseh, sons of Joseph (or the House of Yosef), however it is known when they were exiled by the Assyrians from the land of Yisrael, people among the tribes of Benjamin and Judah went with them too and they travelled North West.

This was totally off topic but I wanted to point out there is zero evidence of this, and if you were to draw such conclusions there is 1000x more evidence that the North was settled by the Tribe of Dan ( his name is literally everywhere, DANmark, DANish, DAnube, etc).

Also, as a Lodge Officer in the Jurisdiction of The Grand Lodge of AF&AM of Illinois I can confirm whether or not Vinny is a mason.

I'm happy to offer my services if Vinny wants to U2U me with his info.

I would not, of course, disclose any of his personal info or even his lodge of membership but I'd be happy to let ATS know affirmatively one way or another.

reply to post by Saurus


My guess is that a Freemason, who is also a member of the International order of Gnostic Templars, took the OP along to the congress, for interest's sake.

As a newly initiated Freemason (if the OP's claim is true), I would expect it to be very confusing, and understand completely why the OP mistakenly linked the congress with Freemasonry, if taken by a Mason.

Suddenly it all makes sense.

[edit on 22/4/2010 by Saurus]

Originally posted by Saurus
reply to post by Saurus

 

My guess is that a Freemason, who is also a member of the International order of Gnostic Templars, took the OP along to the congress, for interest's sake.

As a newly initiated Freemason (if the OP's claim is true), I would expect it to be very confusing, and understand completely why the OP mistakenly linked the congress with Freemasonry, if taken by a Mason.

Suddenly it all makes sense.

[edit on 22/4/2010 by Saurus]

It's not a mistake.

Read the flyer.

It claims ALL Initiatic societies congregate at this conference.

The word ALL is in caps too, they mean ALL.

This includes everything. Even your lodge.

OR - This group is fake.

But I am starting to realize this group is probably real and it is actually a conference designed for ALL societies within the orders.

All of those orders were created by the Vatican in the first place anyways.

The Knights Templars worked for the Vatican. As all knightly orders did. They were commissioned by the Vatican directly.

Also it is very possible that 95% of secret societies originated from there in the first place. Probably through Jesuit channels though, rather than your typical ones.

We are talking hundreds of years ago though.

I am sure someone has the information since all of you are into this stuff.

Actually -- And I offer this cautiously...

I U2U'd Vinny in about six weeks ago because he was interested in joining a lodge in Chicago.

My U2U count indicates that he hasn't read the message yet.

I can't say directly whether Vinny is a Freemason, but it would be extremely difficult in IL to go from non-Mason to Master Mason in six weeks.

It usually takes a few weeks in our lodge from the time someone asks about joining until we get the petition filled out and get three recommendations, then it's read in the next meeting (every two weeks), then there is an investigating committee that reports back two weeks after that, then there is the voting, then there is a degree scheduled.. etc.

Just joining a lodge takes several weeks, and depending on the lodge schedule and the candidate's interest, it can take months to become a Master Mason (or in my case over a year).

I agree with every post made by Protoplasmic

And having now read every post in this thread, I'll admit to be sickened and disgusted

Yes, it appears the OP was served a deliberate mauling --- was ridiculed -- was threatened (warned is too mild a word for what he was subjected to) --- was effectively silenced --- and it appears the Masons and wannabe-Masons in this thread fancy themselves as secret-agents now busily 'checking' on the OP

What can we say ? If asked, I would say without fear or favour that this thread says far more about Masonry than about the OP

Thank you, ATS Masons --- for confirming in print what so many have claimed and suspected about you

I am thinking this conference is more akin to an umbrella than a real organization.

You said "whom is also a member of the Gnostic Order..." but what if no one is a member and it is not really an Order?

I cannot find any listings for a "Gnostic Templars", and I am quite a buff for this kind of historical information.

So my eyebrows raised and I want to know more about it.

My initial guess is , that it is an umbrella for all of the societies and orders operating under Rome's jurisdiction (the whole Earth).

So we would have pretty much a whos who of everyone there right?

That what it is sounding like to me.

So maybe Freemasonry is just a sub-group that is placed under this large umbrella conference that includes other sub-groups that are totally unconnected to freemasonry at all.

Except the fact they may have both been meeting here together under this umbrella group.

It really is intriguing and I admit I am simply speculating here. I want to know more, and I will be looking into this a lot more.

Originally posted by emsed1
Also, as a Lodge Officer in the Jurisdiction of The Grand Lodge of AF&AM of Illinois I can confirm whether or not Vinny is a mason.

I'm happy to offer my services if Vinny wants to U2U me with his info.

I would not, of course, disclose any of his personal info or even his lodge of membership but I'd be happy to let ATS know affirmatively one way or another.

Sorry emsed, I have no idea who you are or your kind of heart, and I really hope I don't offend, but do you realise how this sounds??

Given all the suspisions non masons have in regards to masonry, don't you thinks it's like the fox guarding the hen house thingy?

IF, and I say again in caps. IF masonry is what some believe. who's to say that you making enquiries, based on his personal details, wouldn't lead to something more nefarious, even if this was done without your knowledge or understanding???

You said you wouldn't disclose their details, but you didn't say to whom.

How else do you verify membership?

Originally posted by Riposte
I believe Masons are told to lie to protect their organization. Therefore any Freemason that posts in this thread has no credibility at all and must be completely disregarded.

It's not like you're new here. Every secret of Freemasonry, from the words, to the handshakes, to the actual text of the initiation rituals, has been posted in various forms in this very forum many times over, and I've never once see a Mason lie by posting that the actual ones were not true. It would be dishonorable for us to post dis-info. Much easier for us to not comment than to make stuff up.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
No not all masons are rich. But you have to pay dues so you must have SOME cash...

Most of them are just local workers, like the Dentist, the Car Mechanic, and the Sheriff.

See, the Dentist gives the Mechanic and the Sheriff a deal, like 25% off all dental fees.

Then the mechanic promises he won't rip them off in return, and gives good fees for his work.

And in return the Sheriff willfully looks over any criminal activity that may or may not occur.

Example, the SON of a top ranking Free Mason in my college town got in trouble for manslaughter. His father, due to having connections with everyone in town, got his kid safely flown to Mexico permanently. Now this kid has escaped MANSLAUGHTER CHARGES.

That is how the fraternity is used in criminal activity. It's on a personal level and the mason next door probably knows nothing about it.

Of course these lower level masons are not rich, they are simply well off. They are pawns in the game of chess.

I think this is possibly the case as I have witnessed just such back scratching by lower level Masons. (Other members of fraternal organizations also.) I mentioned in an earlier post that what might be engendered is not "faith in" fellow members but rather having "something on" your fellow member. And so once in at the ground level and caught up in the camaraderie and eventually participating in even the mildest "back scratching" or simply being "in the know" and not coming forward due to a fraternal oath, would mentally chain the lowest and least informed members into protecting the organization's higher more sinister levels like bulldogs. In this case we have possibly the lowest of all members baulking publicly because he has yet to be caught up in anything. We could interpret the response by the other Masons as being defensive and bulldog-like.

Humans scheme to get over on each other there's no doubt. And when they do, they love to flaunt it but don't want to pay the consequences for it. A fraternal organization where one could both flaunt one's conquests as well as be protected would be a very inviting place for many.

And so there is no being a "little guilty". And "In for a penny, in for a pound". Lower level members might baulk at what they are asked to accept while ascending the ranks but by then it is too late. Once in, never out. Very similar to what we've heard regarding the mafia. And we can assume that the RC Church abuse scandals and cover-up occurred due to a similar incestual guilt built from the offending low-level priests right up the chain of command. In that case I think the hierarchy covered up for the abusers so as not to be outted for their own secret sins. That’s fodder for another thread. And so we see this clearly wouldn't be true for just the Masons but just about any secretive, fraternal, pyramidal structured organizations. That's what we humans do, we gravitate to like thinkers and we try to get over on each other. Climbing the pyramid, stepping on those below us. And so if I were so inclined to create such a club or fraternity, I would build it taking advantage of this human tendency. "We take care of our own" is a very common concept.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

People who've been in "Europe for a month" don't typically complain about jet lag.

ok never mind guys, i honestly just wanted to share what happened here with me and a few others a couple days ago. its 3 15 am here and I have serious jet lag.

Jetlag can simply be the adjustment from one time zone to another.

No feces, Watson!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Are you used to going to bed at a certain time each night and getting up a certain time each morning? Change the clock by six hours and these habits by six hours and then see how many days it takes you to adjust.

Toronto-Paris: 6 hour time difference

Took a day-and-a-half and I'll wager I have 20 years on Vinny.

Next!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Further Vincent is a Jeweler and not a Doctor. So his ability to diagnose things such as Jetlag is hardly scientific.

So what? I'm a television editor. Since when do you need a degree to figure out jetlag?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Vincent was also under the additional duress of having recently lived through a life perspective altering moment he was still trying to internalize, as well as a hazing and grilling from angry Masons meant specifically to unbalance him emotionally.

Uh huh!

If he's feeling unbalanced, I think it can be safely posited that it didn't require any input from Masons.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Could these things mimic what Vincent considers to be Jetlag, and is what Vincent considers to be Jetlag the same thing you or I consider to be Jetlag, and is it more importantly what a Medical Doctor would consider to be Jetlag?

Do you actually believe what you're typing? Do you need to go to the doctor to tell you you've got an upset stomach? C'mon!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Regardless getting used to a radically different time zone, and throwing off and then adjusting the body’s internal clock to a new schedule can take several days to even weeks for some people.

None of which is claimed (yet) by the poster himself. Why don't we wait to hear it from the horse's mouth?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Vincent’s statement in regards to Jetlag neither proves when he flew into Italy, or that he was even suffering from Jetlag.

And your diagnoses Dr. P.T.?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
One might wonder though the level of aggression being deployed by some of the Masonic Members of ATS to use this as a scientific indicator, with out any of the necessary scientific controls, to possibly be able to accurately use it as one.

As I said before, the jetlag component was but one hole in his story and not the one that I think matters. It's just the icing on the proverbial cake.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The Mason Forum Gang was out to shut Vincent up and silence him, and appears to have suceeded so now we might never know the FULL answers.

Oh please! Gang? Pointing out flaws and asking for clarification on internal inconsistencies qualifies as silencing him?

So what's it to be? Embrace Ignorance or Deny Ignorance?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Oh that was only one mistake he made. It'll be enlightening to hear him explain how it was that someone who at best might be an Entered Apprentice would be allowed into a ceremony for a side rite that requires you to be at lest a Master Mason.

But I guess you'd prefer to just dismiss the low-hanging-fruit of his mistakes.

Hard to believe that the Masonic Brotherhood considers the rest of us to be the equivalent on the evolutionary scale as monkeys with these statements!

Uh........I'm kind of mystified how you got from what I typed to the snarkiness of your response.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
If his rendition of what he was told is false, then why would he have had to have been a Master Mason to hear such a false ceremony?

Because if the ceremony was false, then his story about it relative to Regular Masonry is moot. If his entire story is false, then so's the entire thread.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon


In any case, none of this is news, muzzleflash (at least I hope it isn't news to you).

Because wikipedia is such an esoteric source.

LOL, Sorry you misunderstood me.

I was being Totally Sarcastic about that. Maybe next time ill toss up a /sarcasm.

Or maybe I should change my signature to "Warning Almost Always being Sarcastic and Making Bad Jokes!"

My bad then.

Mind you, in threads like this, it's often hard to separate those being sarcastic from those who truly believe what they're posting.

reply to post by muzzleflash


It is also the first time that I, as a Mason, hear about this group.

The website speaks of the following organizations/events:

- World Alliance for Planetary Enlightenment
- International Order of Gnostic Templars

- World Congress of Initiatic Societies

What interests me is their mention of the "Goddess Tradition of the original Templars"

I, too, am eager to learn more...
Please post if you find out anything.

P.S. This has the makings of a great conspiracy theory.

[edit on 22/4/2010 by Saurus]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Coupled with the ferocious level ...[snip]

This is how you define ferocious? Please! Pointing out obvious inconsistencies and impossibilities hardly qualifies as "ferocious" is the normal person's lexicon.