Plane carrying Polish president Lech Kaczynski crashes near Russian airport, CONFIRMED DEAD

Originally posted by CharlesMartel

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
This sounds as tho it could turn nasty, whole plane of dignitaries goes down..

I'm sure Russia didn't do it, but am also sure a lot of people will think they did.

for the post and updates

Wait a minute. You are on a conspiracy theory site and you are yet you are sure the Russians did not do it?

Pro-Western Polish leaders are on the way to commemorate a 1940's slaughter of Polish leadership by the Russians and their plane goes down in Russian. What a coincidence!

This could most likely be a ploy by Putin and Co. to drive Poland back into the Russian sphere of influence, despite it being a NATO member.

Originally posted by BobAthome
Are the Polish People not decended from Eagles? or Vultures?,

The Polish coat of arms has an eagle on it.

reply to post by JanusFIN


Thanks for your post. Am back on the thread. To answer your ques, have been a Commercial Pilot and a Flight Instructor. Am also an Engineer and Inventor. Recently discovered and Synthesized Anti Gravity. Have also a thread on Ats for it.

Cheers

i have noticed over the last few days that local airplanes have been coming in lower than usual and bloody louder too, perhaps they are keeping low from something??

reply to post by JanusFIN


Well Janus. Just my opinion. the bottom line clincher here is the 4 missed approaches.The Pilots were compromised seemingly at gun point. As Pilots we have to make split second decisions and HAVE to be RIGHT. pilot error here unlikely.
Someone said about fuel dumping. The TU 154 does not need to dump fuel even if it has to make an emergency landing soon after take off. Polish Military Pilots are among the best.
The black boxes are alweays decoded at the manufacturers end. So Rusiia has to decode the boxes. When I read the official version after decoding, I will post again.

Cheers

The question is who benefits from this?

Russia definitely due to the anti-Moscow stance of most aboard the plane.

Putin is ex-KGB. He can be subtle and he can be overt. Either way, he's always brutal. Sure, it's beyond obvious to connect this to Russia. But, there's no hard evidence. There won't be. Putin's heading the investigation. Even if there was any evidence, would he really report it? Not so much. But, what would Russia gain from this obvious yet unprovable decapitation of the Polish government? Intimidation. The Polish government was getting uppity. They went against Moscow and they paid. Now they're a warning to others. With all the other Russian mucking with former Soviet states it's all too easy to connect this too Russia. To what end? Bring them back into the fold. Rebuild the former glory of empire.

The only non-Russian beneficiaries would be someone trying to set-up Russia. But why?

[edit on 11-4-2010 by AskTheQuestion]

reply to post by jumpingbeanz


Lol. Sweety, no pilot makes an intentional low approach. You have to be on the right glide path to make a good and safe landing. The Tupolevs are noisy only on Take off.
All local or otherwise planes are not at all noisy during Landing as compared to their take offs.

Cheers.

Originally posted by maloy
Seriously where do people come up with this absurdity? Is that what you honestly think?

I've been reading your responses to this thread for the last several pages now and honestly, I am beginning to wonder if you realize that this is a conspiracy based website. Yeah it could have been pilot error, but if you don't mind, our speculations are based on the self-same internet and media generated/propagated information as yours. If you find your information so conclusive that you have to call all else absurdity, then you have stumbled into the wrong forum... sir. With all due respect, we gather here to discuss alternative positions and we don't all feed from the same AP Reuters trough, and we sure as hell don't like being cat herded into conclusions by the derision of close minded individuals who resort to using words like 'absurdity' to substantiate their predispositions.
You seem to think it was pilot error, great, you're opinon has been duly recorded. Linger a little longer, say it a couple more times, and maybe you will bring all us absurd conspiracy theorists to a screeching halt. Ever play Whack a Mole?
-Twitchy
(glad to be back, howdy ATS)

reply to post by polska


Hey Polska.
I am Polish too and I think Henieck was quite right.
Please don't call him unpatriotic. Poland need more people like him who tell the truth and oppose bureaucracy we live in. This tragedy is quite a example of things people may not like with current Polish elites and State.
Yes this is a great country but it seems to me the real elites were murdered in Katyn and real patriots are in minority today.
Don't confuse negative attitude towards Poland with negative attitude towards State. Polish State is far from great.
If someone has negative attitude towards State it does not mean he is unpatriotic. Patriotism has different faces nowadays.
After Lisbon Treaty Poland is a province of the UE.
Majority of Polish "patriots" think it is a great thing for Poland to loose independence. People only cry after accident.

Since this is a conspiracy site. What if....don't you love that...What if it was a coup done from within and they could use the chaos to instill another form of government?



You never know.


It's a tragedy and based on what I've seen on the News this model of Tupolev has had near 60 crashes and is old and combine that with low vis and a stupid pilot that won't listen to the Tower that's telling them to divert to an alternate.

But until all the facts come out we shouldn't rush to judge. Guilty as Charged

If I was a betting man I would say pilot error.

reply to post by Caroline Miguel


Wellcome to ATS!

Nice opening and hope to see you in other threads too. Tragedy is huge, no matter id it was accidental or made in purpose - sorry from your lost.

Originally posted by pause4thought
If I remember correctly the Polish President refused to buy in swine flu vaccine, seeing it as an overhyped bandwagon driven by the corporate agenda. Just something to bear in mind.

1. Poland refused bailing out the banks
2. Poland refused swine flu vaccination
3. Abortions in Poland are banned
4. Poland is 100% Christian country and always has been Christian
5. Poland refused IMF/WB currency policy and was only Eastern European country with GDP going up in 2008/2009
6. Poland came to be not hostile to Russia in last year

reply to post by savvys84


Right, thanks. Many is accusing Russians taking the black boxes, but with your words its very normal because manufacturer is Russian. That solves this issue.

I just woke up and havent read all the latest, but thanks - nice to hear from you again. In many occasions here in ATS pilots views are very important to get facts ans stories double checked. Maybe you already have give your views to 911 truth tables, but those threads sometimes really needs your profession too.

We have been told pilot was warned a number of times on approach.
But was the pilot actually getting the warnings ??

I have been to poalnd 3 times, 1992-1993 mostly in Warsaw (first g/f lined thier). Very beutiful country full of culture! That is when Lech Walesa was president.
This is smells and reeks of CIA, its common practice, when they want a leader to disappear..the classic airplane accident* becuase authorities who are part of CIA or friends can easily cover up any suspiscous activity and evidence, and simpy lie to the public. that easy.
Bush had that radar station thing set up near russia, backin 2008, the russian ppresident went in an uproar, but our governemnt here tried to force it to be thier. Wonder if it has something too do with that? I think obama ordered it taken down though, the nuclear radar defense station.
SO, IF this is suspiscous criminal activity for politcal reasons, indeed, wonder why 'they' wanted him ( ex polish president) terminated/gone?

Originally posted by galloways
We have been told pilot was warned a number of times on approach.
But was the pilot actually getting the warnings ??

The black boxes will answer on this question.

reply to post by galloways


Is there any tapes? I remember that all radio traffic is recorded between planes and controllers to black boxes. If there is nothing to hide about work of traffic controllers - I think we would here these tapes too when comission work is finished and report from accident is published, right?

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
reply to post by spacebot

 

Hey talking of conspiracies what happened to the Kirghiz revolution? No mention in the media, even though Russia was maybe behind it and this Polish event to cloak what's going on? Perfect timing to throw the publics attention away from rebuilding the USSR

Kyrgyzstan revolution seems like it didn't produce the expected results for anyone of the big players, if it was in fact staged. To some extend I believe it was and also maybe some anti-coop sabotage that wasn't probably successful, hence the numerous victims. The new head of government seems level headed and equally distanced and they get to see elections in 6 months from now there. I believe the press dropped the case as soon as they realized they will not getting any more blood from of this. Maybe this is one of the rare times, that the people had it their own way and neither of the big players had won. At least yet.

About the Polish flight accident, which I offer my deep condolences to the Polish people, but mostly because they might have some hard times until new officials are being appointed. What happens to politicians is always part of the risks they face which in this case I believe acted selfishly since now they have left their country without more than half of its former government.
Politicians are here to predict for and protect the people who are responsible for and are being elected AND PAYED from. Clearly at this case, that didn't happen.
I hope no one of the big powers tries to put their own puppets in the Polish government, the country, its people and their decisions will remain sovereign and free to decide their own fate for themselves.

Originally posted by jumpingbeanz
reply to post by odyseusz

 

look at the way he's clenching his fist all the time, he lookds peed off at someone

It's exactly the same look our own former prime minister had after the large forest fires of 2007 and the riots of December 2008 in Greece.
Nah probably a coincidence...

Everybody who was on the plane died.
President and coworkers as the whole military staff.
So all of the polish ruling people died...in the same plane...
Common...there are procedures for this kind of visits and the president never flies with the rest of the commanding structures of the governement...never.
So why this time?

1 person missed the plane because he was sick...!
This person is officialy dead...for the moment!

The president, military chiefs and MPs were due to attend a memorial for a World War II massacre when their plane crashed near Smolensk on Saturday.

The visit was political as historical because WWII massacres had to be remembered by the polish gov. This happened 70 yrs ago...exactly.

The russians first said they would be there to comemorate it with the polish but at the last minute all of them decided not to go because the two heads of the russian bird are against this memorial.

So that place and time will not anymore be remembered as WWII massacre but as the death of the polish president.

What's the best solution to take over a country?

Look in history books 70 yrs ago. Same story...




[edit on 11-4-2010 by Kuronokei]