Plane carrying Polish president Lech Kaczynski crashes near Russian airport, CONFIRMED DEAD

reply to post by odyseusz


He always has this look on his face

plane crashes are an A-1 method of assassination by covert agencies...along with suicides (complete with bullets in the back) and heart attacks.

How many planes crashes are linked to dates of ominous events, quick a plane crashed someone call 911, I have a polish friend who visited poland months ago and he dident like were the government was going.What do polish people think of the president and those that died? And whats with this specificasion if a plane crashes and it's full of civilians its an accident, if it's full of politicians it's an assassination. Is poland so small that it has no other politicians or others that would want to be in power.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
I just want to chime and say...

Plane's don't JUST crash!

They sure do, accidents happen. Unfortunately with so many officials and people in power on one plane, it does make your mind head straight down conspiracy lane and then,well, just look at this thread.


My thoughts go out to the families of the fallen.


*edit*
In addition,
"Pilot error has been blamed for the tragedy after it emerged he turned down the opportunity to land at an alternative runway in thick fog. Witnesses said the pilot made three or four attempts to land before crashing into woodland nearby.
According to reports, the pilot accelerated as the plane came in to land and at that point lost contact with air traffic control."

If the pilot was seen making three or four attempts before he finally hit trees, the chances of it being a big assassination scenario is slim.




[edit on 10-4-2010 by KoraX]

If he was assassinated, the missile shield may have been one reason.

Another might be that Poland has been the pioneer in gas shale exploration, or at least the plan to do so.

All of Europe is in Russia's strangehold for natural gas -- one or two years ago, when the Russians had a gas price feud with the Ukrainians (through whose pipelines Russian gas reaches the rest of Europe), Gazprom just turned off the spigot... and let the Europeans freeze.

No wonder that Europe is desperate to escape the Russian bully and trying to find new ways to get natural gas. Gas shale exploration is the latest thing they're pursuing... and none more adamant than the Poles. Poland is currently the biggest player in European gas shale projects.

I guess keeping their energy monopoly could be a pretty fine reason for the Russians to send a warning shot: "Here goes your president; if you keep p***ing us off, the next time it'll be worse."

[edit on 10-4-2010 by sylvie]

I seriuosly doubt that russia is behind this if it's not an acident, it would be stupid to wipe the whole key officials in a government at the same time and not bring notice if russia wanted to get rid of them we wouldn't notice that they died it wouldn't be news it would be natural accidents, that would go unoticed as years go by. This has spectacle   written all over it, if its intentional someone wanted everybody to see it.

Good lesson why so many officials should NOT be on the same transport.

However, since this guy was such a raging misogynist, I can't claim I'm sad to see him go.

The gas thing makes no sense russia wants to sell gas and oil to everybody they have lots of it, and would make a profit no matter who the president or politicians are, if it is abouth thouse resources then it comes down to markets supply and demand and other countrys like usa and middle eastern oil rich countrys would want a share of the profits. Then it would be in there intrest to have people in power that side with them. If this is the case the people nead to wake up and see that it's not abouth who is president or who says what, but it's abouth who will give the best long term deal on those resources. Russia or the USA/middle eastern oil rich countrys. Business as usual.

Anyone remember hearing that Poland wouldn't get the swine flu vaccine? Can't help thinking they could be related.

reply to post by maestro46


black boxes are secured, sealed, transported to Moscow and the team of Polish-Russian experts later on will examine/decode them together. This was the statement of some high Polish official on tv. Both sides made an agreement about this - this is extremely important. I hope it will work out like this without any problems.

Guys, there may not be any conspiracy. This is Poland - a bunch of top officials go into a piece of junk, pilot thinks he is the best in the world and procedures don't apply to him, and they all crash the second time within 2-3 years. Including one more helicopter accident with Miller (prime minister back then) - there have been 3 accidents last few years - but Miller survived OK thanks to very high skills of the military pilot who landed on autorotation wracking the chopper. Nobody changed a thing after the first accident with military elite when died 16 different air-force generals in one place and time. Two years later instead of 16 we lost almost 90 most important people in power. Such a circus only here, in Poland. Can you get now how looks our tax system and law? It is a total mess full of contradictions and stupidity made by incompetent people who couldn't even properly secure theirs safety.

Everything looks like that in this sick country. Everybody is incompetent thinking he knows the best at the same time. Watch now how Poland will organize Euro 2012 - European Football Cup - it is going to be a shame.

This time there were few factors all together. If separate - none would do any harm, but poorly equipped Russian airport, not quite ideal weather (by the way -there was no wind at all), time pressure, pilot's hubris, old airplane and lack of wide safety standards all adds up from time to time to such a big scale tragedy. No secret agency had to help this suicide mission. Not interfering with our “specialists” was enough. When they were in Norway president's plane couldn't put up landing gear (finally it did), another time it caught fire - it was close to tragedy many, many times before.

reply to post by henieck


That was the best no-conspiracy post I've seen in a long time. You paint a very clear picture of (fatal) incompetence. Nothing more, nothing less.

Spoil sport.

Modern planes have no problem with fog

- does it also apply to old, small Russian’s military airports without beacons?

As a Pole in this whole tragedy it is starting to be clear for me that this accident would bring Poland and Russia closer to each other. The reaction of Russians made great impression on me and other polish people.

What is only strange to me that Russian officials in this situation look much more shocked and touched by this situation in opposite to completely emotionless our prime minister Donald Tusk and his buddy Bronislaw Komoroski our new president which appear to me like robot from the same factory as the prime-minister but model in version low cost.


[edit on 10-4-2010 by odyseusz]

There was no assassination lol ......There is a presidential election this year and a far cleaner method of removal.
Pilot trying to land in severe fog after being told to land at another airport had refused repeated requests by the control tower. The plane hit trees around the area of the aiport, indeed a grave error. Planes that took the advice of the tower which were also in the air around the time leading up to the crash made it to there destination safely.
My prayers go out to the victims of this tragic accident.......

[edit on 10-4-2010 by DreamerOracle]

reply to post by rufusdrak

Originally posted by rufusdrak
reply to post by PhotonEffect

 

If you don't want to hear a conspiracy spin on the story then don't come to ATS which is a conspiracy site. Go read the story on CNN.

Thanks for the word of advice rufu, and the reminder about what ATS is- you're a gentleman.

I just don't think this was an assassination of any kind, and you should get used to hearing the alternative side of things.. And any sort of talk about this being a deliberate attack on Poland's government, is IMO, premature at best.

If this had happened on a bright sunny morning when visibility was 20 miles and it was the pilots first go around at landing, then yeah, maybe I'd start to think something was a little bit fishy...

Fact remains, conditions to land were terrible, and it seems that the pilot made an error in judgment by ignoring air traffic controls' requests to land elsewhere... This sounds like a horrible accident to me...

and it just so happens that's what CNN is reporting too

reply to post by henieck


Your post is completely ridiculous and insensitive to the Polish people.
"Black boxes are secure" LOL Are you serious? Who has these black boxes? RUSSIA. What is the world going to hear from these boxes? Whatever Russia lets them and wants them to hear! This is Poland's plane, Poland's tragedy, so Poland should be the ONLY ones in charge of the black boxes, without Russia's involvement. Why are the Russians taking part in the investigation of the black boxes? The clear answer is so that they can determine what we hear and don't hear. Simple.
And secondly, your bashing of Poland in general is completely insensitive, childish, and unfounded. You clearly know nothing about this great country. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by polska]

The people you think who aren't showing any emotion are in the thick of the consequences. They don't have time or energy to spare on looking shocked. They have a several organizations to deal with right now.

Whereas the people outside of the direct line of fire can look on politely - they have nothing on the line.

Originally posted by lucid eyes
Worldwide, Poland was one of the only economies growing throughout the crisis, in part thanks to this guy.

we had economy growth thanks to the fact that we had no time to over-leverage our economy yet, we have some direct cash injections from UE for equalizing after the communism and since the crisis outbreak we have increased our national debt very much

Good god, it was an accident, it's not a conspiracy.

2nd line.

Originally posted by polska
"Black boxes are secure" LOL Are you serious? Who has these black boxes? RUSSIA. What is the world going to hear from these boxes? Whatever Russia lets them and wants them to hear! This is Poland's plane, Poland's tragedy, so Poland should be the ONLY ones in charge of the black boxes, without Russia's involvement.

Russia has announced that its investigation will coincide with the Polish investigation, and that Polish officials have access to all of the information and evidence. The reason why Russia took it upon itself to start the process, is because only Russian emergency workers and technical experts were present there at the time, and the time factor is critical.

So far it appears that Poland has given its consent and has agreed with all of the actions taken by the Russian government.

From what I understand the black boxes are being decoded by the Russian Aviation Ministry in Moscow, and the content will be released shortly.

Originally posted by polska
Why are the Russians taking part in the investigation of the black boxes?

Because the accident happened within Russia's jurisdiction. Poland is also allowed to conduct its own investigation and has access to all evidence.

This is the way it would happen if the accident was to take place in any country.

Originally posted by polska
The clear answer is so that they can determine what we hear and don't hear. Simple.

The reason why they were send to Moscow, is to make sure they are decoded as quickly as possible.



Either way I think that Russia has acted appropriated and expressed solidarity and sympathy to the Polish people in the best manner possible.

As a Russian I hope that this tragic event would not interfere with improving Russian-Polish relations. I think the Russian leadership feels the same way. Again, RIP to all of the dead and I am confident Poland and its people will persevere through this crisis.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by maloy]