Plane carrying Polish president Lech Kaczynski crashes near Russian airport, CONFIRMED DEAD

reply to post by harrytuttle


Ye, but come on man. You'd have us trust a British source who is a fourth of the world away just because it sounds more like a conspiracy, and you won't trust a Russian news source (confirmed by Polish news sources) which is on the spot?

We're not gonna get anywhere like that.

They're decoding the black box, what's left to argue?

Regards,
Maestro

reply to post by Fatality


Great - thanks!

Outside of any possible conspiracy involving this, it is truly a tragedy. My husband is currently in China on business and will be flying home soon -- a big plane crash unsettles my stomach a bit. I feel so badly for the families of those that died.

Originally posted by rufusdrak
1. someone mentioned some people heard explosions
2. some saw fuel leaking out of the plane
3. some saw the plane turned perilously sideways with its wingtip pointing towards the ground
4. some said there was a 16 minute communications blackout.

where did people get all this stuff from? This sounds like 911 and all those testimonies that were quickly covered up afterwards.

Certainly does.

I keep saying I'd like to see RT, or another news source, get an interview from them. Until then they're just voices to me.

Regards,
Maestro

Originally posted by rufusdrak
1. someone mentioned some people heard explosions

Well there was an explosion because of the crash - there were images of fires, but reportedly not a large one.

Originally posted by rufusdrak
2. some saw fuel leaking out of the plane

Witness for this is the Polish journalist who seems to have been at the airport. Reported on RT news.

Originally posted by rufusdrak
3. some saw the plane turned perilously sideways with its wingtip pointing towards the ground

It looks like it leaned to the side after it had already struck a pole with a wing near a road, and right after that crashed into the forest. That is according to a witness interviewed by RT.

Originally posted by rufusdrak
4. some said there was a 16 minute communications blackout.

where did people get all this stuff from?

An chart on BBC with unclear sources.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by maloy]

reply to post by rufusdrak


I think its either;
A: Alot of deterrence, either from official or passerbys who maybe only saw a second or so out of the corner of their eye, and so are trying to piece it together

B: Pre-emptive statements from media sources who are still trying as A: were to figure it out, but reading/watching reports

C: Some conspiracy that is being played to its full potential. The reason is if this option was the case, then what for and will ATS ever know? I for one being from Australia never ever really hear anything about the Polish people, their government or even their national dish (And other supposedly common facts, unless I google them).

To me, this seems a 75% chance of an accident... However since I arn't following the story, nor even know the story thats all I have for now. I like everyone else are just having a nice time guessing =(

reply to post by harrytuttle


Very fishy indeed. Im a Pilot.The TU 154 can lan automatically in zero vis. So fog is no issue. The pilot insisted on landing there, after being warned is also fishy. Though the Pilot in command makes the final decision. 16 mins of comm failure b4 crash hmmm.
Fuel leaking from plane. Poppycock. The TU 154 lands at 150 kts approach speed and fuel leaking will vaporise and you wont see jack of fuel. Even after black boxes are decoded, true story will never come out. My condolences to the polish people and the families of the prsident and all those killed in the crash.
I read 4 missed approaches. Come on it ain't a cowboy flying that plane. No pilot will make more than 2 missed approaches and when you have a comm failure the pilot is obliged by rules to fly to the alternate airport after the 1st missed approach.
The whole episode has the hallmarks of something deliberate.



[edit on 10-4-2010 by savvys84]

to take such a risk wit all those people on board does not make any sense watsoever

something just doesn't make sense to me. Now I'm no avionics expert but, when a plane is landing isn't it already pretty much slowed down with flaps and all to such a degree that:

1. if it crashes, the speed is not great enough to always kill everyone on board..a landing crash often has many if not all survivors

2. speed is definitely not great enough for the entire plane to completely disintegrate and have pieces strewn everywhere.

The type of crash they're describing and the look of the area seems like the plane blew up many miles in the air going very fast rather than a landing at which point the plane is already going pretty slowly

reply to post by savvys84


Beautifull,, fog ya right never thought of the possibility that "fog" would would have Zero effect.

It's so nice when real people remind us that "we" can only speculate "they" KNOW.

Originally posted by savvys84
reply to post by harrytuttle

 

Very fishy indeed. Im a Pilot.The TU 154 can lan automatically in zero vis. So fog is no issue. The pilot insisted on landing there, after being warned is also fishy.

If the Tu-154 can indeed land in 0 vision then perhaps his decision is not so fishy?

16 mins of comm failure b4 crash hmmm.

This is not true. The black box shows that there was communication with the plane.

Fuel leaking from plane. Poppycock. The TU 154 lands at 150 kts approach speed and fuel leaking will vaporise and you wont see jack of fuel.

That's interesting.

Regards,
Maestro

Originally posted by jumpingbeanz
to take such a risk wit all those people on board does not make any sense watsoever

Perhaps he was rushed by the people on board. Perhaps they did not want to be late to such an important event.

Regards,
Maestro

reply to post by Vitchilo


if it was an assasination it was more of an inside job , althogh kaczynski was as some would say an ellit he was greatly oposing NWO(wich you would know if you were polish) along with him many of those who oposed NWO died with him as well as every chief of staf in polish army(navy,HQ,airborn> etc )altogether 7generals most important army men in country of wich one general was chief chaplain for catolic soldiers other was orthodox.Also died 15 parliment members as well as head of national bank who was a kaczynski's man.and many heads of NGO's
Prime minister of poland gains most of it so is NWO

Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by savvys84

 

Beautifull,, fog ya right never thought of the possibility that "fog" would would have Zero effect.

It's so nice when real people remind us that "we" can only speculate "they" KNOW.

try educating yourself sometime. It makes wonders. Modern planes have no problem with fog, in fact you can land a modern plane without even having windows in it so fog isn't exactly a killer. The instruments would have allowed him to land. Something is fishy unless there was fog plus also huge crosswinds of some sort.

My heart goes out to the families of everyone on the plane.

This is a terrible tragedy.

Originally posted by rufusdrak
something just doesn't make sense to me. Now I'm no avionics expert but, when a plane is landing isn't it already pretty much slowed down with flaps and all to such a degree that:

1. if it crashes, the speed is not great enough to always kill everyone on board..a landing crash often has many if not all survivors

2. speed is definitely not great enough for the entire plane to completely disintegrate and have pieces strewn everywhere.

The type of crash they're describing and the look of the area seems like the plane blew up many miles in the air going very fast rather than a landing at which point the plane is already going pretty slowly

The plane hit a pole, then tipped onto its side and crashed in a forest. The collision into all those trees no doubt ripped it apart. No wonder they're all dead.

If you were trying to land a plane and then all of a sudden realized that the runway was closer then you thought you would try to accelerate up, by giving power to the engines. the black box also tells us that the angle at which the plane was coming in was too steep, so the plane was (without a doubt) going much faster then it should have when it realized it was going to crash. Which ever way you twist it, it was going too fast. Like I said - no wonder they're all dead. Tragic.

Regards,
Maestro

Originally posted by rufusdrak
try educating yourself sometime. It makes wonders. Modern planes have no problem with fog, in fact you can land a modern plane without even having windows in it so fog isn't exactly a killer. The instruments would have allowed him to land.

It is possible that the pilot was trying to make a visual approach since he was already so close to the runway, in which case he could have become disoriented due to the fog, and for a moment disregarded the instruments. Sure - if the approach and landing goes exactly as planned, such a mistake should not happen - but never underestimate pilot error.

Also what of the fact that the airport was closed to other traffic by the time of landing due to fog? Surely they considered fog to have major impact on safety. And also there was a report of an earlier diverted flight for an Il 76 due to fog, piloted by an expert Russian military pilot familiar with the airport. That plane was also able to made zero visibility approach. So fog was a major safety concern, which was apparantly disregarded by the pilots in the Tu 154.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by maloy]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by spearhead

 

Yes that may be a possibility but since he's really pro-NATO, kinda hates Russia and accepted CIA torture camps in the first place, he's considered ``part of the elite`` IMO so he wouldn't be killed by the US at least.

I doubt Russians would be so stupid to kill him inside their own house.
Us on the other hand would be showing an unprecedented display of power in doing so.
If this has to be something else than a extremely weird coincidence, then it would probably be that the Polish president was in fact "defecting" to the Russian side with demands and a plan of what bids Russia could give him against the new found interests from Western gas and oil corporations on Polish gas resources. Maybe the Polish president was only after the best interests of his own country.
I am sitting on the fence on this, apart from it being an extremely rare coincidence I don't know what to say.

here are the google map co-ordinates N 54° 52.614 E 32° 0.644

knock yourselves out with this

the difference is quite far between the airports they where routed to travel to but didn't

[edit on 10-4-2010 by jumpingbeanz]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by jumpingbeanz]

reply to post by savvys84


I hope you stay on this thread to get Pilots view here - are you in Air Force or passenger pilot - or private pilot, if I can ask?

We do need a pilot here to connect the dots.

Thanks!

reply to post by spacebot
Hey talking of conspiracies what happened to the Kirghiz revolution? No mention in the media, even though Russia was maybe behind it and this Polish event to cloak what's going on? Perfect timing to throw the publics attention away from rebuilding the USSR