Plane carrying Polish president Lech Kaczynski crashes near Russian airport, CONFIRMED DEAD

Why is it everytime there is going to be World War Poland gets nailed first ?

It just reminds me 2008 when Russian troops went through Georgian territory, than Lech Kaczynski decided to go to Georgia.
He wanted to grab attention of European Union and NATO to defend Georgia and he succeed.

Now after dead of Kaczynski there is Komorowski (President) and Tusk (Prime Minister) from same Pro-Russian party, so now there is no supporter as Kaczynski for far east european countries.

I have one question: If Russians actually had spaceships, do they have technology(or even if its possible) to remotely mix up something with plane navigation instruments?

Rgrds

Sorry if I missed it, but what was the name of the passenger who did not get onboard the fright as scheduled?

ONE word will give you the answer to this story as the mass media is telling it
DISINFORMATION......
(learned about this even before first reading about this tragic loss this morning)
The lie the media is telling you on this story will soon be exploited....

Oh come on people!
It was already established that the control tower warned the plane not to land an hour before they even get to the airport. The reason was bad weather conditions, right? Pilot decided to check it by himself and he tried to land (but failed, probably beacause of the tree). The real question is, wheather the pilot decided to do it by himself, or people who were aboard insisted (because they dind't want to be late). It will get nasty if it turns out that it was their own fault that they crashed >.

reply to post by BobAthome


Funny sarkasm. After all, for some reason I am very pleased to go to army training camp next weekend, fulfill my duty and sharp my skills - also to take some new tasks.

April 19th is closing every day...

Russian "RT" TV news is reporting that the investigation has already started, and that the black boxes are already being deciphered and information should be released shortly.

So far they are saying that the airplane was at the wrong altitude for the approach, and was well short of the runway. It is doubtful that there was problems with navigation though, because on previous 4 tries to land it used the correct approach altitude.


Link to live stream:

rt.com...

[edit on 10-4-2010 by maloy]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by maloy]

reply to post by maloy
Can pilots please chime in here? With all the instrumentation in today's aircraft, how in the heck can an airplane approach at the wrong altitude? On board computer knows height of runway and airplane, so what gives?

We've all seen Die Hard 2, is it possible, no matter how unlikely, is it possible to have altered the plane's on board computer to make it think the runway was lower (hence the airplane was too low)?

Sakaashvili has officially crapped his pants.
He knows he's next.

People did u get a look at the passenger list??? It was the WHOLE government (for the sake of argument).
Why they were ALL on board at ONCE just does not make good sence.
Good luck finding the bodies.

Originally posted by mrmms
Now after dead of Kaczynski there is Komorowski (President) and Tusk (Prime Minister) from same Pro-Russian party, so now there is no supporter as Kaczynski for far east european countries.

Well there will be an early election called shortly because of Kaczynski's death, so it is too early to tell what the impact will be on Poland's politics. There are many other politicians with same views as Kaczynski from his party.

Also Tusk is not particularly pro-Russian, he is rather neutral.

Originally posted by mrmms
I have one question: If Russians actually had spaceships, do they have technology(or even if its possible) to remotely mix up something with plane navigation instruments?

NO

Seriously spaceships? Mix up navigation? That is seriously stretching any logic. Why would Russians ever want to have Polish, or any foreign president die on its soil?

Originally posted by BobAthome
People did u get a look at the passenger list??? It was the WHOLE government (for the sake of argument).
Why they were ALL on board at ONCE just does not make good sence.
Good luck finding the bodies.

So much for hating on Russia and being with Nato/EU's side. I guess EU/NATO couldn't give them a better plane for their most important people? Don't bite the hand that feeds you. They smooch with the west yet they still take their most important equipment/planes from Russia, and use a 30 year old one at that.

reply to post by maloy


Just watched the live stream for a few minutes. The President, who was staunchly pro-American and outspoken on the German/Russian pact in WWII, openly supported the anti-Russian Chechen leadership, etc., was visiting Russia with the specific purpose of commemorating the Polish officers massacred by Russian forces during the war.

The commentator said "...this was to be the moment of reconciliation... and it is a tragic coincidence that this accident has occurred in this context..."

Interesting, very interesting.

Possible motive? ✓

reply to post by harrytuttle

>The pilot of that plane, no doubt, was probably the best pilot in the nation of Poland. These guys don't crash, ever, unless someone tampers with the flight control systems of the airplane.

Just a couple of years ago there was an aircraft crash in Poland where died many very top air-force officers (as passengers), entire elite. It was in similar conditions, approaching to land, too many important people in the same plane, some fog (just enough to blame it), and best out of the best military pilots flying.

Together witch this latest crash this almost completes exchange of the entire Polish top ranked military officials and generals.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by maloy

 

Just watched the live stream for a few minutes. The President, who was staunchly pro-American and outspoken on the German/Russian pact in WWII, openly supported the anti-Russian Chechen leadership, etc., was visiting Russia with the specific purpose of commemorating the Polish officers massacred by Russian forces during the war.

The commentator said "...this was to be the moment of reconciliation... and it is a tragic coincidence that this accident has occurred in this context..."

Interesting, very interesting.

Possible motive? ✓

He also disrespected Russia by flying to Georgia and showing his support for Georgia during the war in 8/8/8, now on 4/10/10 he is silenced for good.

reply to post by maloy

I was just watching the RT video feed, and the reporter repeated earlier reports of people seeing fuel leaking from the plane, and that the crash wasn't very flammable.

If the plane was losing fuel fast, that would explain why the pilot was making desperate measures to land quickly in foggy weather.

The pilot was supposedly violating international regulations by trying to land in that weather, which just further underscores the theory of low fuel desperation, and perhaps, the low altitude: maybe the jet had already run out of fuel and was losing thrust.

And if communications were truly lost for 16 minutes before the crash, that would explain why the ATC weren't notified of the emergency situation.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by harrytuttle]

reply to post by harrytuttle


Pilot error should never be underestimated. Perhaps it was inproper control input by the pilot, or strong winds.

The previous 4 approaches are said to have been at the right altitude, and the plane even touched the runway before aborting. So the the navigation is likely not the culprit unless something happened between the 4th and 5th approach.

The navigation systems in these planes with newer modifications are actually made in the US and EU. Plus the plane has a separate navigator besides the two pilots, so any abrupt change in navigation instruments should have been noted and addressed right away.



As for the "leaking fuel":

Like somebody pointed out earlier it might have been dumping fuel, by the pilot. This is not something very unusual when facing difficult landing situations, but of course that does reduce available options if the landing cannot be completed. I don't see how an airplane can simply leak fuel, or why it would not have been noticed during the rest of the flight.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by maloy]

No big surprise that they seem to already be concluding it was pilot error:


""The cause of the plane crash was apparently an error by the crew during the approach to landing," Russian state news agency RIA Novosti quoted an unnamed official in the Russian region of Smolensk, the area where the plane went down."


Air Force Gen. Alexander Alyoshin confirmed that the pilot disregarded instructions to fly to another airfield.

"At a distance of 1.5 kilometers [0.9 miles] the air traffic control group discovered the crew had accelerated its downward descent and begun descending beneath its glide path," Alyoshin told Russian news agencies.

"The head of the group ordered the crew to return to horizontal flight, and when the crew did not fulfill the instruction, ordered them several times to land at another airport," Alyoshin said.

"Nonetheless the crew continued to descend. Unfortunately this ended tragically."

He added that the pilot makes the final decision about whether to land.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
reply to post by maloy

 

Can pilots please chime in here? With all the instrumentation in today's aircraft, how in the heck can an airplane approach at the wrong altitude? On board computer knows height of runway and airplane, so what gives?

We've all seen Die Hard 2, is it possible, no matter how unlikely, is it possible to have altered the plane's on board computer to make it think the runway was lower (hence the airplane was too low)?

Please don't use movies to back up your beliefs.

In the quote from your BBC link (which I still can't open, sorry) a "witness" states that the plane was coming in with one wing towards the ground. The pilot was either trying to maneuver or was suffering some kind of technical problem. He either did realize too late that the runway was not as low as the computer stated it was, or the plane was not responding as it was.

Maloy also said earlier that a local professional Russian pilot tried to land there and just prior to the Polish plane, and deemed it too hard to land, after which the airport decided to divert all other inbound aircraft. Perhaps not without good reason after all eh?

Regards,
Maestro

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Now they (Russians) need to reestablish the USSR style of control over Poland through a proxy/puppet leadership and government.

And without having the US in the way... anything is possible.

Dude, i do not like what you are saying.
You seem like 15 y.o. US kid, and please, stop waving US flag, and COD4 gamer way of thinking here. You clearly do not know ANYTHING about Europe.
I can recommend - leave that topic, man.

----

reports of people seeing fuel leaking from the plane

It is usual to make fuel dump in case of emergency;
People seeing such thing may take is as fuel leak, imho...


[edit on 10-4-2010 by potential_problem]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by potential_problem]