Now you are FORCED to buy health insurance, what will you eliminate to afford it?

To me the merits of the bill are moot at this point. What's going to be interesting is if this bill gets challenged as a violation of the 10th amendment. I have heard there are some other constitutional violations of the bill as well.

I find it kind of funny, because it was Obama that figuratively speaking, spat in the face of the supreme court durring his State of the Union address. Now his bill which many have equated to the core of his presidency may fall in the Supreme courts hands...

I'm not very well versed on the bill in it's current form. But if it truly "forces" people to spend money on something, period, I'm curious how they are going to deal with all the people who "default" on the insurance payments. I mean look at this country right now, people are not paying for their homes...the very roofs over their heads, and you think they will pay for health insurance?

And before someone says one of the stupid maxims about me not being for health care reform...I'm all for changing the current system. It is broken. But what so many people keep overlooking when comparing the U.S. to other countries with socialized medicine is how many other social programs our citizenry pays for in our current taxes. Tell ya what, drop all of the other social BS programs and I'll look the other way on this constitutional travesty.

And what about people that are unemployed? Or the homeless? Finally we have something to arrest the dead beats on

Oh and for the record, I am someone who has a wife and two kids in grammar school, I've been out of work since August 09 and I have no health insurance. But I stand on principle, just because I may benefit from this bill does not make it right at all.

Originally posted by PhoenixDemon
I'm not very well versed on the bill in it's current form. But if it truly "forces" people to spend money on something, period, I'm curious how they are going to deal with all the people who "default" on the insurance payments. I mean look at this country right now, people are not paying for their homes...the very roofs over their heads, and you think they will pay for health insurance?

I forgot the $ figure they used for the new IRS departments who will be assigned to collecting fees or verifying coverage, maybe they will do away with the 1040EZ.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


What will I eliminate to be able to afford something politicians passed without asking us?

Not one damn thing.

What I will eliminate to be able to afford something special interest groups bought Congress for?

Not one damn thing.

What will I eliminate to be able to afford something the lobbyists legally bribed politicians for?

Not one damn thing.

What will I eliminate to be able to afford something I have no need for whatsoever?

Not one damn thing.

What will I eliminate to able to afford something which I cannot afford nor will I purchase?

Not one damn thing.

I will tell you the one thing I will eliminate, and it is something each and every person, ATS or otherwise will be able to do, on their own, and it is quite simple.

I'm going to eliminate the need to listen to these idiots, bastards, and criminals in office.

I'm going to tune in, turn off, and tone up my political knowledge and know where I stand.

You cannot force someone to purchase anything against their will.

That is 100% un-Constitutional, guaranteed, because that is nothing more than leveraged racketeering, and falls under the R.I.C.O. Act., and we will see who purchases what with my money, and I damn well assure you, it will not be healthcare.

Government Shakedown : R.I.C.O. Act, Extortion, and the HealthSCARE ACT

[edit on 23-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by Richie66

You don't have to do anything if you don't have enough money the government pays for it GET IT the poor and the middle person can effort healthcare don't you get it in you head this is only good now everybody can get help instead let you die on the street THINK before you say anything stop mouthing and THINK. I hate dumb people what a waste on this earth.

First, I am trying to bite my tongue and not lash back at you about writing something that I could at least follow. However, I THINK I got through the jumble of words to get your jist. You are thinking that us middle class people could 'afford' insurance, right?

Well, let me put it to you this way. I won't divulge my income but I can say this with a straight face. I have to pay out $650 a MONTH for my insurance. THEN to top that off I have another $5200 deductible per year that I have to pay out of pocket in expenses. That includes prescriptions, doctor's visits, etc.

Do the math. (biting my tongue or pinching my fingers to be more correct).

That my friend is $13,000 a year. Yes, more than $1000 of POST TAX money per month that I have to pay. Yes, due to prescriptions and the occassional kid to the ER each year we do JUST BARELY reach our deductible.

How much of that do I see back in tax relief? About $400. Yippeee!!! So, stop being so pathetically blind in thinking that it's us middle class people that are just riding high on the hog and living it up with perfect health insurance. It's tough for a lot of people. And for those that do not have work or can't work, well, the system has always been there for them. NO ONE gets denied admittance into a hospital if they are sick.

And if you already are POOR as you put it then you have the state that pays for EVERYTHING. I have a sister who hasn't spent a dime on healthcare for 13 years because of the system that is already in place.

Stop making it about people whom you delusionally believe can afford it and those who can't. What happens to those that can barely afford it now and are FORCED to buy it or risk getting audited? What happens to them?

Get real before you start screaming and flaming.

I already have insurance through my employer. I pay my share and my employer subsidizes the rest. Now I wont have to subsidize freeloaders who do not have insurance, use the emergency room for basic needs, and stick me with higher premiums. I am glad this bill passed.

Originally posted by Terapin
I already have insurance through my employer. I pay my share and my employer subsidizes the rest. Now I wont have to subsidize freeloaders who do not have insurance, use the emergency room for basic needs, and stick me with higher premiums. I am glad this bill passed.

I think we will all still be subsidizing the rest.

It will just cost us all more.

Add 32 million people to the list of 'insured'.

Someone has to pay for it.
Plus the layers of government bureacracy that comes with it.

Who?

Us.

reply to post by butcherguy


I agree and never understood how people could take the bait that there premiums would go down. The whole point of the bill is to have the healthy reimburse the sick and the only way for your cost to go down is if your benefits get reduced.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by mhc_70]

It looks like we all better get serious about metaphysical healing, it's the only thing that's free and affective against today's dark ages of medical technology.

reply to post by Terapin

Now I wont have to subsidize freeloaders who do not have insurance, use the emergency room for basic needs, and stick me with higher premiums.

Just a question for you. What in this bill is going to stop "freeloaders" from using the emergency room for their basic needs? And what in this bill is going to prevent you from paying higher premiums?

Premiums always go up. This wont change that, although it is supposed to slow it down a little. BlueCross wanted a 39% increase, and that has been stopped by this bill.

Freeloaders will now have to buy their own coverage, and thus I will no longer be billed for their use of the emergency room for minor issues. They can go get checkups and treatments based on their OWN insurance policies. Previously my premiums were higher to pass on the costs of providing care for those who refused to get insurance. That has now ended.

The government is not running your health care. You will still have private insurance, but now it is more regulated much like we regulate banks. Both need more regulation in my mind and this is a step in the right direction. Insurance companies can no longer turn you down for pre existing conditions such as Daibetes. Children who are either living at home or are still in school can stay on their parents health coverage until the age of 27. This is a big help as previously younger people simply lost coverage and did not get any when they got older. Then every time they needed a Dr they would use the emergency room and you and I paid for it.

Regular checkups and preventive medecine will now be totally covered with no co-pay. Previously I had to pay $25 for such a visit on top of my regular monthly premiums.

Nothing wrong with that.

reply to post by Terapin

Freeloaders will now have to buy their own coverage, and thus I will no longer be billed for their use of the emergency room for minor issues.

Oh really? Aren't the freeloaders you are referring to illegal aliens? Last I checked illegal aliens generally don't file taxes not are the likely to purchase health insurance because of this bill.

Previously my premiums were higher to pass on the costs of providing care for those who refused to get insurance. That has now ended.

What in this bill has put an end to this? What is in this bill that will stop premiums from rising or even "slowing them down". Where are you getting your information from?

You will still have private insurance, but now it is more regulated much like we regulate banks.

I don't want insurance. They make huge amounts of money because the money they payout on average is less then the money they bring in. In all probabilities I am much better of saving that money.

I would eliminate the WARS and BASES around the world

I would eliminate the concept that HEALTHCARE in its physical and profitable form from the very very long list of profitable investor driven endeavors -

"principle is hardly a defensible platform if your pedestal serves fundamentally as a rampart for naked greed and remote subjugation..."

Our sick minds have allowed our country men to die, suffer needlessly and go bankrupt for too long-

If anything, I hope this Frankenstein will reform the peasant slave class mindset we have nurtured... Billionaires will be regardless - the bill and its unsavory bits can change -






[edit on 23-3-2010 by Janky Red]

WORK.

I went on veterans disablity pension in 2003 and as long as i don't go back to work i am covered.
Veterans disablity pension is not classed as income by the state or feds.
so i have $0 income and under this law would get free medical insurance.

I get free medical care through the VA anyway but getting free national health care free will help if i have to go to a non VA ER. just have to pull out the card and sign the paperwork.

So, Cabaret, where do YOU get your healthcare now OR are you one of those people who use our SEVERELY overworked emergency everytime you need to see a doctor?

Up until now all other industrialized nations on earth have required some form of healthcare.

There are no complaints against a system that requires everyone to have healthcare that will hold water.

People complained when Medicare was introduced many years ago but just try to take that card away from a senior citizen, he might just break your hand.

Same thing with Social Security, try telling your elderly relatives that their checks are going to stop next month - there would be rioting in the streets.

While it certainly isn't the best program in the world it is a hell of a lot better than we had a week ago.

t's still astounding to me that any of you gripe, whine, bitch, moan & complain about ANYTHING our government does...left, right, liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican, it doesn't matter...DON"T ANY OF YOU GET IT BY NOW ????

You want the real truth?

Whether performing or being interviewed I’ve heard George speak openly, frankly and sincerely about many subjects. He always stated that he felt betrayed by three things in life, as perhaps we all should…religion, government and his OWN SPECIES !!!

I don’t think I can say it any better than this guy !!!! (what an incredible mind he had)

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

In the next clip take note at 5:10 till the end when the young man asks about “hope” His insights into “no hope” and his so-called cynicism are brilliant not to mention that he sees mans only hope for survival as coming from aliens

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by rickyrrr
It would also leave your employee with about half the employees because they would surely quit and find a better job. Do you really believe they want to do that?

-rrr

And where would they find these better jobs?? In case you haven't noticed, it's an employer's market out there. Millions of people are unemployed. There are few to no jobs depending on location. I've been looking for a job since 2008 and cannot even get McDonald's to give me a job. They say I'm "overqualified" and refuse to hire me because I have a college degree. Same story I've been hearing since I got my first degree years ago. All I did was educate myself out of the job market. Millions of people were duped into getting college degrees thinking it would get them employment. The employers can pick and choose whomever they want. Most places don't offer insurance anyway. More and more places are hiring people for temp only and then giving them the boot when the time was up and then just replacing them with another temp. They're never eligible for any benefits or unemployment that way. Places like Wal-mart are doing it more and more.

I get so tired of people who don't get that the jobs are gone and people have to do all they can to hang on to the job they have if they're fortunate enough to have one. Employees are in no position to bargain for anything.

reply to post by harvib


The freeloaders I speak of are NOT illegals They are American citizens who do not get insurance, but still use the system. They go to the hospital instead of their own Doctor for simple things and that effects my premiums. Illegals are another matter entirely. Perhaps the new National ID they are talking about may help in that respect, but there are issues with having a national ID as well.

If you are unaware of how the Bill effected the cost increase that Blue Cross was after, then perhaps you should read the bill to understand better why it can no longer get the increase it wanted. That particular part of the Bill was fought heavily by Insurance lobbiests but they were unable to shut it out completely.

Those who refuse to get Insurance will face a tax penalty. With more people getting insurance there will be less freeloaders whom I have to pay for.

[edit on 23/3/10 by Terapin]

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


Well, if you own a car you're forced to buy car insurance aren't you? I don't hear people whining about that. It goes with the territory. If you own an uninsured human body and you get sick, that of course puts an even greater strain on people's taxes anyway. If you are not taking steps to have insured preventative medical care - eventually it's going to be an even bigger burden on everyone else. And if you decide to have kids.....the kind of responsibility to provide health insurance should just go without saying.

Where are you coming from with this? President Obama has stated many times (I presume you can afford a tv, or a computer with the internet) that he intends to make sure with this bill that EVERYONE will be able to afford some basic kind of insurance in America. Perhaps it's just easier to whine loudly that you wish to continue with the privilege to breed and consume as you wish per grata without any responsibility to others?

[edit on 23-3-2010 by warza]

[edit on 23-3-2010 by warza]

You know it kills me...all you people that think this bill is so great...Don't you see that this is an infringement of your basic FREEDOM. The car insurance argument is weak as well. You are not forced to buy a car, thus requiring insurance. Ultimately, why not have socialized grocery's? I mean c'mon, if they can require us to have health insurance, where does this stop. They can make sure we are all healthy subjects/slaves if they force us to eat right too, correct?

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a good idea for a person to have health insurance, but not at the cost of giving up freedom. And I would be the first to agree that if you get sick or injured and do not have insurance you shouldn't have the right to EXPECT others to pay for it. I would almost have supported something where they would have came after people who got medical care and had no insurance and made them pay. Note I said almost...Because I believe the medical system in this country is indeed broken and is not affordable for the average person.

We need a lot of health care reform, in major ways...But this bill was not the answer.

Don't people care about freedom any more. I keep thinking of the saying, "those that give up there freedom for security will have neither"...So many people in this country seem to want to be come subjects of rulers...I choose freedom...As a great man once said, give me liberty or give me death!

[edit on 23-3-2010 by PhoenixDemon]

reply to post by PhoenixDemon


I would almost fully support you, but the problem is that Republicans offered no alternative They did not have any plan to put forth. They had eight years when Bush was in power, but they never even attempted any change and things got a lot worse. They should have tried to work with the Nation and put forth their plan if they had better ideas All they did was say NO but offered no thought on how to fix an obviously broken system. We both agree that costs are crazy.

Agreed, this bill needs further amendments, but it is a start, and could have been worse. People need to be more responsible. Too many refuse to get insurance, yet still use and abuse the system. That drives costs way up and needs to be fixed.

As a Nation we need healthcare reform. I think we all agree that costs are to high and the system does not work. Insurance lobbyists run Washington, but a crack has opened and we can work from here.

I have not given up my freedom. I work hard and pay for my health insurance. This bill actually makes my policy better as I no longer will have to pay for checkups and preventive medicine. Previously I was charged a $25 co-pay on top of my monthly premiums for basic medical checkups. This bill will eliminate that over time.

[edit on 23/3/10 by Terapin]