Now you are FORCED to buy health insurance, what will you eliminate to afford it?

reply to post by Terapin

The freeloaders I speak of are NOT illegals They are American citizens who do not get insurance, but still use the system.

Where is your data? What is your source? The numbers have to be negligible at best. Besides if they can't afford insurance now what in this bill is going to make them afford it now?

If you are unaware of how the Bill effected the cost increase that Blue Cross was after, then perhaps you should read the bill to understand better why it can no longer get the increase it wanted. That particular part of the Bill was fought heavily by Insurance lobbiests but they were unable to shut it out completely.

It's a 2000+ page bill. Maybe you can help me out. I have read the part where insurance providers are required to submit and justify increases but that is no assurance. And the fact that such corruption was passed is evidence of the corporate influence.

With more people getting insurance there will be less freeloaders whom I have to pay for.

This makes no sense. How does it lower your premium if more people obtain insurance. Let's say the "freeloaders" became non-existent this would only result in increased profit margins. Unless, of course, there is something in bill that caps profit margins. If not do you really believe the corporations are going to voluntarily cap their own profit margins?

i guess i will have to stop buying all that Sine Qua Non, Screaming Eagle, Scare Crow and Burgundy Grand Crus and start drinking two buck chuck..._javascript:icon('')

Ever been to an emergency room. Notice that there are quite a number of non illegals who use them as their basic medical centers. They should only be used for emergencies, not when Junior gets the flu. That drives up costs and if more people had insurance, this would not happen.

Volume. More people in a plan makes costs go down This is already happened even before the Bill passed. Larger groups get better prices than smaller groups.

Here is a quick look at 18 positive changes in the new bill and while it only briefly mentions the cost containment re BueCross, it does indicate some positive changes:
18 immediate changes in health care
The Bill is long and a bit difficult to wade through, but it does contain measures that prevented Blue Cross from getting the 39% increase they sought, and it also helps contain private insurers as well from making such significant increases. It also forces them to be transparent about costs and profits.

honestly gus what's wrong with Health Care?

As a French hotel worker, I earn xactly 1492 euros a month on my "income receipt" or whatever you call it. On this income are taken :
taxes for retirement funds ( we nationalized that too along with Health Care)
taxes for disabled people
taxes for unemployed people
taxes for administrations
and so on...

Then I finally get 1180€on my account.
Almost 300euros out of 1500, gone without me having the chance to get my hands on it ! but let me tell you something, if your kids start working in a few years and get into this system without having known the previous one, then they'll get used to it.
my 2c from accross the Atlantic

Questions:

This health care bill. Am I going to be paying for it with more money taken out of my paycheck, or less money received from my tax refund?

What happens if I stick with company provided health care?

Originally posted by Terapin
Ever been to an emergency room. Notice that there are quite a number of non illegals who use them as their basic medical centers. They should only be used for emergencies, not when Junior gets the flu. That drives up costs and if more people had insurance, this would not happen.

Some people die from the flu. Sometimes having the flu IS an emergency. And sometimes it's not really the flu, but meningitis, which requires emergency care.

Originally posted by TerapinVolume. More people in a plan makes costs go down This is already happened even before the Bill passed. Larger groups get better prices than smaller groups.

That sure didn't work out for mandating people buy auto insurance now did it?

I don't even have a job, so I guess I'll be facing fines and possible jail time from this. I've been turned down for medicaid repeatedly because I'm not pregnant, even though I have auto-immune disease and need to be taking hundreds a month in meds which I don't take because I don't have the money. They cut me off when my ex finally started paying the $32/wk child support and $100/month alimony he'd been deadbeating on for years.

And around here the state keeps coming after you for any hospital bills you owe no matter how destitute you are. They have no mercy whatsoever. I nearly died a couple weeks ago because I had a bad virus and got so dehydrated that my skin and lips turned blue. My daughter called her dad, who is a nurse, and was asking what to do. She nursed me back to health best a 13-year old could.

reply to post by Clisen33


Stick with your company insurance plan and you will do fine. Actually, your plan will improve because of this Bill, if you currently have co-pays, some will now go away.

reply to post by Terapin


the majority of our population does not goto the ER for the flu.

This Emergency room arguement is getting old, on how one justifies this health care so called reform..

if anything you can blame the illegals for abusing the ER system in america, before you can say the majority of Americans, are going to the er over the flu.

I find it interesting you have no problem with being forced by law to pay for health insurence EVEN, if you cannot afford it, or will have to eat noodles each month to keep it..



YET I respect your trying to justify this, I guess. Just don't post to those that oppose your idea like they are stupid.. Because Ironically I think they see the truth.

reply to post by Jessicamsa


Jessica, I am sorry for your troubles and I well understand that it is not at all easy. Costs have gone way too high and affordability is something that needs work.

Agreed that sometimes the Flu can be very serious. My point was that there are those who use the emergency room as their means of basic health care, and not just for emergency reasons. In a genuine health emergency of course people should seek appropriate care, but the system should not be used when you could have gone to see your regular doctor for a visit. People without insurance use the emergency room, but if they had insurance they would have better health care access and would use the emergency room far less. Emergency rooms are the most expensive way to get health care.

This new bill will prevent anyone from being turned down for pre existing conditions. I am unsure of how it affects Medicare, but it should help you find appropriate care once things start up. Not everything happens right away and some will take until 2018 to go into full effect. In your case, you should begin to see less obstacles much sooner than that.

reply to post by Jessicamsa


Its called preventative care most of the time, which all non medical holders DO NOT have. Ever get a doctor checkup without health insurance? Doubt it.

Now most will not have to go to the ER for something they could have gone to the family practice Dr. and so on...

You have been fed a lot of information and I am doubting you know fully what you are talking about.

reply to post by Bicent76


I never stated that the majority of Americans go to the ER for the flu. It was an example of what some people do who do not have health care that drives up costs.


I am not being forced to do anything. I work hard long hours, but thankfully I enjoy my profession. I pay for health care because I need it. I like to get regular health checkups. I like to take care of my health and get the medical care I sometimes need. My job can be dangerous and if I need stitches I like to be able to get appropriate care without having to worry that it will bankrupt me. I travel and like to get immunizations and medication to prevent things like Malaria, because I feel it is far better to prevent illness than to get sick and have to treat it. If I did not pay for Health Care my life and health would be negatively affected.

Costs are way to high I think we all agree. But how do we fix it? The US is the only major nation that does not have universal health care. We have to do something because I think we all agree the system is broken. So, realistically, what do you suggest we do that will make things better?

reply to post by troubleshooter


thank you it niece to hera some suport for it from a citasin of a contay that has real hath care!!!!

reply to post by Terapin


medicaid is working decent for the poor..

I think doctor visits to doctors office should be done just like in any other type of service provided to one.

you pull out the yellow pages and find a doctor you can afford for a doctors visit..

now if you have to have emergency treatment in a hospital you can set up a payment plan if you do not have insurence or get a donation or whatever.

yet I would have to disagree this healthcare bill is not universal healthcare. I just do not see how it will be more affordable for all, I do not see prices going down, to what limit does my mandated health insurence pay to anyhow, what if I have aids, and my treatment over ten years cost over 5 million dollars and I die, your trying to tell me my insurence will pay all my expenses? Or say my insurence will cover up to 100 grand and I am in a coma and after a week my hospital stay has surpassed my coverage, then what.. I will still go bankrupt, or just set up a payment plan..



whatever..

reply to post by Terapin

Ever been to an emergency room. Notice that there are quite a number of non illegals who use them as their basic medical centers. They should only be used for emergencies, not when Junior gets the flu. That drives up costs and if more people had insurance, this would not happen.

That is your data? How do you know what these individuals were therefore and if they intend to pay or not?

Also let's assume that your observations are correct. How would the elimination of overhead and resulting increased profit margin translate as a lesser premium for you? Again this will only occur if the insurance companies decided to cap their profit margin. Heck, they no longer have the concern of overpricing their product above affordability.

Volume. More people in a plan makes costs go down. his is already happened even before the Bill passed. Larger groups get better prices than smaller groups.

Actually volume in the form of demand has the opposite effect. Increased demand makes prices go up. It is a fundamental economic principle.

Average prices even in the case of group rate discounts will still be higher due to increased demand.

Here is a quick look at 18 positive changes in the new bill and while it only briefly mentions the cost containment re BueCross, it does indicate some positive changes:

It doesn't matter. I don't want to support the insurance industry. All of the things mentioned could have been done through regulatory legislation without my servitude. Without me having to pay outlandish profits to a corrupt corporate industry. I don't want their services.

The Bill is long and a bit difficult to wade through, but it does contain measures that prevented Blue Cross from getting the 39% increase they sought, and it also helps contain private insurers as well from making such significant increases.

Yes it is long a difficult to wade through. I have spent the last two days reading the bills trying to find a way out of this nonsense. You keep making these statements yet have still failed to show me where in the bill you are referring to.

reply to post by harvib


Actually the bigger the pool when we are speaking in terms of health insurers at the same risk will drive costs down.

For instance this is why your employee health care plan will cost less than your individual with all the same bells and whistles. It is because they are leveraging your risk vs. "x" number of other participants.

reply to post by GreenBicMan

Actually the bigger the pool when we are speaking in terms of health insurers at the same risk will drive costs down.

Where are you guys getting this from. It flies in the face of the most fundamental economic principles. Increased demand drives prices up. Unless of course the insurance companies are nice enough to cap their profit margins.

For instance this is why your employee health care plan will cost less than your individual with all the same bells and whistles. It is because they are leveraging your risk vs. "x" number of other participants.

No the reason that group rates are cheaper then individual rates are due to the incentive of companies obtaining a large block of business.

Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by GreenBicMan

 

Actually the bigger the pool when we are speaking in terms of health insurers at the same risk will drive costs down.

Where are you guys getting this from. It flies in the face of the most fundamental economic principles. Increased demand drives prices up. Unless of course the insurance companies are nice enough to cap their profit margins.

For instance this is why your employee health care plan will cost less than your individual with all the same bells and whistles. It is because they are leveraging your risk vs. "x" number of other participants.

No the reason that group rates are cheaper then individual rates are due to the incentive of companies obtaining a large block of business.

I have my life health variable ann. license. Not that this is great or anything lol, but I know the concepts and I am not sure where YOU are getting your information from.

Listen if you want to get technical.

There are people called actuaries. These people compute risk for a living. These people say if they can pool you within a risk tolerance with "x" number of people within a certain deviation from the norm it will be more profitable or at least meet a certain criteria which makes it worth it if they project earnings.

That is why you have to wait 6 months (or used to) for preexisting conditions from your employer and that is also why they will NOT give employers insurance to give to employees in some instances because the POOL WAS TOO SMALL and one person had 3x risk as to what met the criteria.



[edit on 24-3-2010 by GreenBicMan]

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Jessicamsa

 

Its called preventative care most of the time, which all non medical holders DO NOT have. Ever get a doctor checkup without health insurance? Doubt it.

Now most will not have to go to the ER for something they could have gone to the family practice Dr. and so on...

You have been fed a lot of information and I am doubting you know fully what you are talking about.

I have been fed a lot of information??? I know what I am talking about because I have been living it for years now.

reply to post by Jessicamsa



Umm ok, so have I.

Facts are facts and preventative care which will take care of more than 75% of all these quasi ER cases will save big coin in the long run. That was my only point. Preventative care accounts for an exponentially better overall health statistically. There is no arguing any of that.

The point is the flu is definitely not an emergency unless you are like a baby or 90 years old. Everything else can be handled in a different manner. You are not really understanding the concepts and mechanisms. I do have all the licenses etc. so I know where they rip you off and I know where it costs the most. Once you see some real quantitative actuarial information then you will have a clear outlook on what is really going on here. You are of little understanding.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Yes but none of what you state has anything to do with insurance premium price as a function of increased demand. What you are stating is how the industry determines price point within the current market condition. The current premium for the exact same risk factor today will likely not be the same price as it was in the past or it will be in the future. Why? Because market conditions change, i.e. demand.