Why most ATS members will never fight the NWO: you are all talk

reply to post by hyperion.martin


do you think that 98% of us are just phobic re actionary,
or that anyone in any circumstance like stating has just 2% chance probability not to react phobically

if the latter, then everyone on ats (and everyone in general) has at least a 2% chance to be warrior class



[edit on 3/18/2010 by indigothefish]

reply to post by hyperion.martin

You are generous at 2%.
I was always leaning toward 1% or less.
Maybe we're both wrong, guessing prior to a real life situation, is still guessing.
All I know, is what I know, and brother, I dont run.
Everyone else, can speak for themselves.

Dont run, you'll only die tired!

Nobody knows how they will act until something happens...as much as people on this forum want to believe that they are special and able to excel in tough situations, every situation is unique and there is no guarantee of a person's behavior. In a time of crisis, humans have the potential to act at their best and their worst. 1% 2% .5%, these are all guesses until something actually happens

It was raining really heavily one day and everyone in the street was running for their homes and cars. I saw one man just walking to his destination, calmly like nothing was happening. I offered him an umbrella and asked why he was just walking. He replied "Why run? The rain is inevitable, running will only make it splash against you harder."

I feel like I can be one of the 2%. I've never been in a combat situation before, but I have been in a gang shooting and plenty of fights as a juvenile. The adrenaline starts pumping and instead of locking up, my body urges me to move and do something. Yes, there was another feeling telling me "oh shi oh shi, don't move, just don't move and you will be okay". However the adrenaline and rush overpowered that to the point that it just isn't there anymore after the first second.
I'm no tough guy, or crusader, or white knight of great justice. I'm just a guy that has his limits like everyone else. I don't like to be pushed, even the most gentle dog bites when you keep tugging at his tail. The people in charge are tugging at my tail pretty hard with all that is going on.

Originally posted by hyperion.martin

I KNOW I am part of the 2%......are you?

The main problems is that the 98% almost always thinks they are in the 2%.

I am lucky (sort of) to know my limitations. I've been through many threatening situations in my life.

I definitely feel fear and other symptoms of the "phobia" you describe

The difference is that for some reason, most likely through experience, I am able to remain calm and assess the situation. The fear is always overwhelming at first (everyone will experience it, even those 2%), the objective is to control it. I can't say that I can control it, definitely not all the time, but for some reason I am able to stay calm. I think the main reason for this is that I am more afraid of the consequences of running from the threat, than I am afraid of the consequences of facing the threat.

The 3 main reasons that I have been able to face my past threats:

1. When I see someone else being threatened, I immediately become aggressive and have no problems interfering. The fear is almost completely dissipated in this situation, probably because there is more motivation other than to just "survive".

2. I have no other option. I've only been in this situation once that I can remember, and I had no choice but to fight (was a physical threat). While my fear may not have been under control, I did fight out of necessity. It actually did not turn out well for me. Probably because I was outnumbered greatly. However, if you have read Sun Tzu's work, you will know that this situation is when people perform at their greatest. One example is at the battle of Normandy. The soldiers had nowhere to go but into the fight, and this caused them to have miraculous success. Sun Tzu called this "death ground".

3. When I know my enemy. I'm usually fearful when going up against an enemy I don't know well. But times when I've gone up against those I do know (such as friends), I'm more willing to resist, even if I think I will lose against them.

Of course, you can trace all these elements back in time. I suppose my studying of Sun Tzu's Art of War and other works has helped me identify my strengths and weaknesses in threatening situations.

It's simple for me, if they start the war I have no problem fighting to finish it, but as long as this life is comfortable enough for people to be happy within the constraints we barely realize are there then I'm not starting anything. I'll admit, I don't have it in me. I love my daughter too much to risk the safety of her future happiness, I'd like her to have a secure life, even if that means one with a lack of freedoms that could only be won through the crumbling of a system and bloodshed.

Dear Sir... I agree with you to a certain degree. However, it was untrained, unexperienced civilians that fought the Civil War of 1861-65. It was untrained civilians that fought the first horrible battles...Bull Run, Fredricksburg, Antietam.
It was civilians that fought the French and then the US in Indo-China/Viet Nam. It was civilians that fought the Russians in Afghanistan, it was civilians that have been fighting the US for 8 years there now.
There will be many that die in mass numbers due to inexperience and technology....but they...we ...will adapt.
Don't forget...it was mere civilians that fought the best army in the world of 1775... squirrel hunting colonists against the mighty British Empire.
The weapons and tactics have changed... but the will power has not.

I will shoot, fight, bite, stab, kick, punch, and if needed kill for my family!!

Im not a talker, I WILL lay down my life for my family...not even a second thought...

and any other children also... I will defend innocence

Interesting question there OP. Are we within that 2%?

Am I?

Honest answer: I don't know.

Have I been in clear imminent life-threatening situations before? Yes. A number of times.

Was it the fight, flight or freeze response that kicked in? Fight each time.

Do I possess reasonable skills in regards to self-defense tactics, weapons etc etc? Yes.

Does that make me a 'bad-a$$ survivor? Nope. Just makes me someone who for whatever reason seems to have a somewhat 'wired response' to fight. Nothing to do with me any more than my hair colour is.
Which is not necessarily a good thing at all - it can also make you prone to over-reacting and over-engaging when the more prudent response may well be flight or freeze.
It also just means that I lucked out a bit and was blessed enough to breathe the next day.


...big question though is would I *fight* again if/when the very next situation crops up? I don't know.


Thats just it.
What ones history may be in such situations may well indicate a possible tact they'd take in a future one...its certainly no garauntee.
I could just as easily curl up into a ball and cry for my mummy.
Who knows until it happens again.


We can sit around and pontificate all we want...as cliche as it sounds you just don't know.

Even the most supposedly *cowardly* person, I've seen just 'snap' and go fully ballistic in the right (or wrong depending on your point of view) situations with the right motivation.

A good friend of mine shys away from even hearing people argue. Even harsh words make her want to run the other way. Yet I've seen her run up and just punch, kick and stomp to buggery a large stray Pitbull that had gotten into their backyard while her infant son was out there and was growling at her son.
She may be quite a timid person normally - but threaten her son and she'll rip your arms out of the sockets and beat you to death with the bloody end...



[edit on 18-3-2010 by alien]

Well the first thing i'm gonna say is, who ever said you WERE a coward for going to Iraq were wrong. You fought in a war so who am I to question your perception of war but having said that if the "NWO" or as i look at it a danger to me or my familys life! I would stand up and fight.

Maybe its just my english spirit............................ but i would fight my enemys to the death, for the sake of survival.

In regards to invasions of countries, the only reasons that these modern militaries lose to the citizens entrenched in an invaded country is because the modern militaries want to avoid civilian casualties. In a major war, if it came down to it, armies and great leaders would have to make the decisions that civilians are fair game in order to truly win a land invasion war. Unless the NWO leaders want a war like that, in which the entire population is at risk of being nuked, there will be no need for this war

Also, I agree that a problem is that everyone on this site wants to be special. As I have said before, too many people believe that when times get tough, they will achieve great things. That doesn't always happen, and if the time for war ever comes, these people need to realize this or else watch them and their families die and fail in a quest for freedom

Originally posted by Iamrealistic
As I have said before, too many people believe that when times get tough, they will achieve great things.

Great point that - and one I agree with.

Why wait till times get tough, why wait until the 11th hour...when there is so much we can do right now. Today. Within our own homes, families and communities.

Rather than wait until the smelly stuff hits the whirly-thing...doing something now may help clean up the amount of smell stuff that may eventually get thrown towards said whirly-thing.

reply to post by Iamrealistic


Anyone with any sense does not want to die...nor do they want to fight. But, fight they will..by the thousands..by the hundreds of thousands. Look at history in any time period....and when invaded, people fight...they know they will lose their homes and families regardless...so might as well try to save it and them.

I don't want to be special, just left alone. Like the hundreds of thousands of farmboys, business men, teachers, blacksmiths, artists, etc that marched to war in the US Civil War... and fought battles....Cold Harbor 1864...7000 US dead in twenty minutes.

How about the veterans coming home after the war and their farms and families ...are all gone...destroyed. Most battles were not fought for high ideals..but for home and survival....

When a UN occupation force pulls up in your yard and looks at your wife... maybe a little R n R...what are you gonna do? When they come for your oldest boy to conscript him into the security forces...what will you do? When you see crossing guards patting down and feeling up your teenage daughter, what will you do?

Damn right, you will fight...not for flag or country...but for home and family.

I would have to say I agree with the opening post only partly. I have been in a situation where as a civilivan contractor I had no choice but to engauge a Military like force of 10 guys spread out on a research vessel. I do agree that I was overwhemed by fear at first but with in minutes I realized and was able to react. I won't get into the details but I can tell you if you have never taken a life before you are in for one hell of a shock when you do. I pissed myself and threw up after the first one. It was up close and personal. The other ones were not so bad after I got my hands on a Gun. It's somthing I would never want to be forced to do again.

However;

In the American Revolution Farmers armed with pitchforks and muskets went up aganst the most advanced fighting force the world knew at that time and won! It was estimated that only 3 - 5% of americans actually fought. So in todays numbers it's between 9,210.000 - 15,350,000. It looks like they are way out numbered. ( Yes I do realize they have planes, droans, fleer, night vision and fully automatic weapons. )

So I would say the odds are in We The Peoples favor!

So are you saying we should all carry guns on us at all times then?

Fight the NWO? Depends. I and my Bride are minimalists. We live well on very little. We are getting better at it all the time.

Is the NWO going to be conducting an assault on me or mine? If so, some of the NWO will die. I probably will too, eventually, but none of us will sell our lives cheaply.

Is the NWO going to destroy the economy and shackle us with bonds of debt and self-loathing? Well, they can piss off. I'm going fishing.

there's no need to carry guns or be ready to fight. I see no sudden outbreak that will force civilians of the whole world to fight (barring alien invasion lol)

reply to post by blankduck18


Passive resistance never won any revolution. You've simply been conditioned by tptb into     non violence. Human beings are inh erently territorial and violent by nature. Tptb channel our violent nature into sectors that protect and defend the status quo and  further entrench power in the hands of a few. A passive, effeminate populace is preferable and produced by promises of "higher� �education" and evolution beyond the "barbaric". 
Any claim to enlightened progression beyond human nature is false. Burying ones nature beneath civility and society is not in keep ing with genetics. Repression only leads to large portions of society being incarcerated or becoming keepers, (leo's) who lawfully� �express violence or members of the military. 
When a society becomes oppressive, a relief valve, is to manufacture threat in order to harness produced violent behavior, in the� �form of additional leo's. A manufactured need to instill added "protections", as in a homeland security apparatus provides a " reasonable" means to install security. This security is never intended to protect the civilian populations, rather, it enhances the  hold of tptb over said populace. In the face of manufactured external threat, we surrender our only true security, freedom, for� �occupation. We are asked to "report" on our neighbors, to be "watchful and wary" that the enemy never materialize. In truth  the "enemy" is the state that was empowered by our lack of vigilance and self protestations of passive evolution.

Actually I think the NWO ideals are that they want violence and division among the people. Ya know like make the cops think they are against the people instead of serving them. All military and police must remember their oath to defend the constitution and the people of this country, if they receive orders that goes against the constitution they are obligated to not obey them.

We all need to be together and see the real enemy for who they are. The greedy corporations, big global banks like Goldman Sachs, Federal Reserve, and all the puppets they control in governmental positions. These are the real bad guys here.

I hope you who are military guys current or ex, same with police visit the oathkeepers sight and seriously think about it.

oathkeepers.org...