Why would a god allow so much pain and suffering?

Originally posted by StarBoyFG
Shortly:
You create your own future without HIGHER manipulation.

Sometimes this is what keeps people from killing themselves. The though of what might happen if they kill themselves is a good impact of furthering their torture.

I am going on exp here.

About topic, I think it has to do with karma, good and evil.. so they say.. I anymore really dont see that.. I see more bad than good, even the small good that i do dont help in the grand scheme of things.

The God of this world created it and everything in it to fail.
God knows the beginning and end of all things.

Adam and Eve were created by God knowing that they would fall into sin and suffer for it as would all their descendants.(That's a loving God?).

But fear not! God came down to earth to suffer and die on the cross for all of us.
So why are we still suffering?

Actually, I believe God of this world is some sado-masochistic entity who revels in the suffering of humanity.

Could this entity be Satan himself?
I believe so.
The Bible says that he roams the earth to and fro' looking for whom to devour.
The Bible also states that the evil ones will be flung into outer darkness (space?). The earth is about as far away from the center of the universe (the real God) as you can get.
The Bible also states that the evil ones will be flung into a lake of fire (ie. the earth is one huge lake and the sun is its fire).

Satan is the God of this world.
And we are all in Hell. (Bet you didn't know that.)
Because we certainly aren't in Heaven.
There is only two ways to go...up into Heaven or down further into Hell.
You get to choose which way you would rather go.

Interesting concept, don't you think?

reply to post by rancelot


Satan is often referred to as the Prince of this World, as seen in the Book of John. How could he have offered the world and complete authority to Jesus during the temptation if he did not have it? This part I agree with, Satan is the current "god" of this world in the sense that he does what he wants in it and to it, though he is not God.

This much you and I agree on.

I disagree regarding Heaven and Hell, as the current creation is reserved for fire, and there will be a new creation, a new heaven, earth and Jerusalem where God will reign forever and ever.

We are not yet in Hell. The wicked have not yet been punished for their sins, and the righteous do not have to suffer the second death or Hell.

Originally posted by trueperspective
Suffering builds character. Anyone that has lived long enough knows that. Hand a man anything he desires and you will create and corrupt and greedy man. Hand a man nothing and take everything he has and he will be a content and thankful man. This is an Irony. This is how God works.

Tell that to the starving children in Africa, I'm sure they will see it the same way and are happy that God builds their character.

Simple answer, either there is no God, and bad stuff just happens. After all, the mouse gets eaten by the cat too...it's nature. Or alternatively, there is a superbeing like God, and he just doesn't care or maybe can't help everyone.

FREE. WILL.

We humans keep falling into a trap when we think about the concept of God. That is, we keep thinking of God as this individual above, beyond, and most importantly, separate from us. That is a fallacy!

All sentient beings are part of God. God is part of consciousness. God grants each of us free will, because that is a necessary attribute of God itself.

God cannot "allow" pain and suffering, just as God cannot "prevent" pain and suffering. That is because God is a simple concept, but not simple by any means.

WE are the ones that allow suffering. WE are the ones that could prevent suffering. In reality, much pain and suffering is natural, but WE have the power to override it.

WE can prevent starvation in poor countries, if WE got over our lust for inequality and greed. Natural disasters will occur just as death during childbirth, somethings are just nature. The problem is that God will never be able to help human suffering unless HUMANS start to help human suffering.

The minute we all start seeing each and every one of us (even the most disturbed and repulsive) as version of God, we will start to experience God. The more we view God as some external and separate entity, the farther away He becomes. We humans are much more powerful than most of us think. Just imagine if each and every one of us acted in unison to minimize suffering on Earth? We all would become closer to God.

Instead, we have people that thrive on inequality like a drug. They will use bombs, financial instruments (debt) and brute force to keep inequality present. This is satan. This is the antichrist. The minute you view ANY human as "below" you, is the minute you embrace the darkness and feed pain and suffering.

How hard is this to accept?

Edit to add:
Try this exercise: Think about yourself as being a star on a reality TV show. Think about every person on Earth watching that show. All 6.8 billion humans, watching YOU. All of these people accept that you are human and therefore not perfect, but they all also will judge you and your actions. Tribesmen in Africa are watching you, homeless refugees in Asia are watching you, billionaires are watching you. From the elite to the oppressed, they are all watching you. You know which category the vast majority of humans belong to, and everybody has an equal vote.

How would your actions on a day-to-day basis change? Would you go by a large car you do not need while walking over the poor and hungry on the sidewalk? Would you buy excessive luxuries for your children as bribes for good behavior rather than teach good values and reward activities such as volunteering at the shelter? Would you eat animals that are raised on growth hormones in mass-production sites until your belly is about to burst just because you can?

People, please look at yourself. Write down your daily activities and experiences for just a few days. Analyze those actions and decisions you make. Accept your faults, accept your shortcomings. Accept who you are, and then think about who you want to be. Start with small things, and build yourself up. This leads to acceptance of self and a happier more content lifestyle. At that point, you may find yourself treating others differently - with more respect and understanding. Don't hide from yourself, don't hide from this reality TV you are on, don't hide from God.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by nydsdan]

According to Biblical schools of thought, God is not the source of suffering, he merely allows it to prove to humans that they(we) cannot make good choices. That is just what some think.

whith suffering comes gratitude. i truly belive most hardships are a matter of perception.my world is what i make of it. so back on topic we are all capable of bringing any conspiracies to light.any thoughts fellow ats`rs?
im new here and nice to finaly conect whith ppl as crazy as me.thanks evryboby for all the great postings. -peace

Perhpas God has given us free will. While it may seem as though he is allowing us to suffer, perhpas he is just allowing us to make our own choices in life. Perhaps he is allowing us to evolve on our own without interfering. Even if that means our suffering as a result.

Perhpas he has faith in us. Perhpas he believes that eventually we will be able to improve our own lives and look after each other without him having to step in and improve our lives for us.

God isn't creating anything, what's happening to us (disease, war, aging, conflict) is due to the overlords and controllers of this world. We just have to be nice to each other and band together to over throw the "jailers".

They're forcing us to live in pain, but we don't have to. We don't even have to die or age, it's all in our minds.

I hear alot about us being here to learn. I have to completely disagree. it doesnt make sense to spend a whole lifetime(however long you have) "learning","suffering",etc.,only to take what you have learned to "heaven". To do what with?.If I'm understanding correctly, everyone in heaven has the knowledge already. So what do you plan to do with it now your there?I dont believe in God in the traditional religious sense (to small,too humanlike),,,however something(someone) does "snap" our reality into place(i.e double slit experiment,,,"what the bleep,down the rabbithole2"So,,,,,,

There are many who have gone before us. We are all part of the creation.

It is a closed loop system with 7 levels. This Earth and all of creation here consist of the first three densities.

Fourth density is where our controllers (Lizards/Demons) come from. There are also good beings in 4th density, we call Angels.

Fifth density is where we go (1 through 4) when our organic body dies. Here, we contemplate our next series of tests, as we learn.

Sixth density is the place we think of as Heaven.

Seventh density is where we take part in creation. In order to balance out the negative spirits, who can't advance past 4th density and are broken apart, we also are broken apart, thus becoming part of creation in perfect balance.

In densities 1 - 4, good and evil are approximately divided 50 - 50. So, if you make it to 6 D, you will have a rest from dealing with evil, so it seems.

Yes, good question.

I think it's important to understand first of all that the Universe doesn't understand good or bad. If the definitions of 'good' and 'bad' were a defintive set in stone catalogue of rules, then laws would be consistent throughout the world; we would all share the exact same set of beliefs for what we think is acceptable and what we think is not. So everything that happens is merely consciousness experiencing. Albert Einstein, was fully of aware of this:

“The only source of knowledge is experience”.

That's really the underlying essence behind all of this.

That's not to say I condone certain types of behaviour. Most people generally agree on what universally acceptable and what is universally unacceptable, up until a certain point; that's where we have laws - even the majority of people a lot of the time don't agree with those.

So why does God allow 'bad' things to happen?

Well I think it's important to realize we have free will, however there are predetermined aspects arranged prior to our birth in the spirit dimension. If you are somebody like Hitler who was responsible for the perpetual suffering of millions it may decided it is best for you not to incarnate on earth again; or you may nominate yourself to come back and be murdered for that particular experience.

In the afterlife there is no such thing as fear. Fear is something we experience as humans and is not a real emotive state except in this existence. In the spirit world the only real emotive state is unconditional love. Just, we are born with this kind of, amnesiac state where we can't remember our true self. However, there are the odd cases of young children remembering past lives or you can have a past life regression.










[edit on 17-3-2010 by IrnBruFiend]

reply to post by win 52


First time I've ever heard anything like that.

I have to say, I completely disagree with you for reasons too long to post in the thread.. I am curious where you got the idea though.

Because it is part of his Almighty Plan . The Plan is left
up for you to figure out at Birth . 'Kay ? ...........

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by Maddogkull

 

God doesn't cause the suffering, we humans do.

To be honest, I suspect that there exists such god as you are referring to. But that doesn't affect the truth value of the first line of this post.

-v

God causes all things to happen. He's not passive...he does not turn us loose to see what happens. He is involved with every aspect of His creation and is working it for His glory. We see good and bad, but He sees the finished result which we can't see.

Thats a trillion dollar question there. Simple answer would be an answer to many topics in our heads...guess we just gonna have wait for after death to find out...

[edit on 18-3-2010 by MoonandStar]

We are not yet in Hell. The wicked have not yet been punished for their sins, and the righteous do not have to suffer the second death or Hell.

This quote annoys the hell out of me, no pun intended there.
So because you believe all this you are a righteous, and because I think it is a fairy tale, I'm wicked? Such arrogance.

Originally posted by trueperspective
Suffering builds character. Anyone that has lived long enough knows that. Hand a man anything he desires and you will create and corrupt and greedy man. Hand a man nothing and take everything he has and he will be a content and thankful man. This is an Irony. This is how God works.

It works both ways. This suffering you hold in such high esteem actually can work to break the spirit and any hope that goes along with it. What could we accomplish if everyone had hope and the spirit to achieve. I have always said that if this is the best that God can do, then I have no need for this all-loving, all-caring God in my life. Don't let your heroes be goats.

reply to post by win 52


Hmm...Interesting concept, accept where do you get this information from. Channelled mediums?? It is harder said than done. At least with other religions there is 'some form" of evidence in a way. But this is seems like scientology. No offense, seriously, but it just doesn’t make any sense it seems.

Reply to post by Maddogkull

because life is work and existence is suffering. whoever told you that. like a pig, you can be happy in your own filth (ideas, concepts, morals, etc.) lied to you. seems to be the 'i need to be happy before all else' mentality.
those who- like disney- are molding perceptions into personifying nature and happy smiles all the time are slave-masters training their workers....


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