Israel Could Find Itself Forced To Wipe Out Europe

Originally posted by DarkspARCS
Why did America give such a paranoid and hostile group of people control over something so vastly destructive!....

They haven't used it, unlike America. Its called a nuclear deterrent. If Israel ever uses that deterrent it would be in response to overwhelming force against it which I'm fine with. Same as hanging the sign - "Trespassers will be shot." If you don't want be shot then don' trespass.

Without that nuclear deterrent I guarantee you we'd have had more and tens of thousands of more war dead.

Originally posted by ararisq


They haven't used it, unlike America. Its called a nuclear deterrent. If Israel ever uses that deterrent it would be in response to overwhelming force against it which I'm fine with. Same as hanging the sign - "Trespassers will be shot." If you don't want be shot then don' trespass.

Without that nuclear deterrent I guarantee you we'd have had more and tens of thousands of more war dead.

I kinda agree with your thinking , MAD, That's why I believe Iran should

have Nukes.

The only problem with Israel's Version of MAD is, They have a Nuke pointed

at every Major City in Europe.

Mad means Mutually Assured Distruction.

What did every Country in Europe do to warrant this ??

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Sean48]

Originally posted by DarkspARCS
lol...

Why oh Why did America give such a paranoid and hostile group of people control over something so vastly destructive!....

It's like giving an open pack of matches to a baby in one hand and a lit match in the other and then telling them to go play...

Here we go again.... IT wasn't the U.S. who gave Israel it's nuclear arsenal, and the capability to make them.... IT WAS FRANCE....

A couple years ago I posted a thread in these forums were at least one high ranking government official of France was saying that perhaps it was time for them to also give nuclear weapons to Middle Eastern countries.....

Anyway, my point is that some people talk bs without knowing the facts.....

reply to post by OddTimeSignature


That would explain the frenzied efforts of Israeli secret diplomacy in 1997 1998 that largely went undocumented and under the radar since the spotlight has been focused to Cyprus and Turkey all the time, although Cyprus, Turkey or Greece do not posses nuclear weapons. An easily modified S-300 back then and also its modern variants tracking from Cyprus would be an excellent deterrent against launches of Israeli nukes creating an anti missile umbrella that could effectively cover the whole Israel. I don't know if after that period Israel decided just in case to retrofit submarines with nuclear capability. I think if I am not mistaken they might have ordered a German variant which could hold some nuclear payloads if modified. I leave this to anyone which might be more knowledgeable about Israeli naval capabilities.

Timeline of events of the crisis with news reports.
1998 Cyprus Special Weapons News
www.fas.org...

Here's the most important parts of the events of the 1997 1998 Cyprus missile cirsis.

Athens dismisses press reports over Turkish warplanes' 'S-300' training in Israel

According to the Turkish dailies "Hurriyet" and "Milliyet", Turkish air force personnel trained at a base in Israel to practice air strikes against Cyprus in the event that Nicosia proceeds with plans to deploy Russian-made S-300 anti-aircraft missiles.
Asked to comment on the reports, government spokesman Dimitris Reppas cited a press release from the Israeli embassy in Athens on Monday, categorically denying the content of the press reports as well as a similar statement by an Israeli foreign ministry spokesman.

Cyprus Missile Crisis (1997–1998)

Russia initially avoided direct confrontation with Turkey, but insisted repeatedly that the sale of S-300s to Cyprus would proceed without interference. Turkey consequently looked to her strategic NATO partners, including the United States for reassurances that she would not be prevented from acting against the perceived threat, should the need arise. Evidently, these reassurances did not come, and Turkey instead turned to neighbouring Israel for weapons and training to deal with the S-300s directly.

In September 1997, the Turkish Navy and Coastguard began to board and search vessels heading to Cyprus, including Russian-flagged vessels in international waters. The situation alarmed not only the Greek Cypriots, but their strategic military and economic partners in Athens and Moscow, evidenced by official statements in October 1997 indicating that Greece and Russia would engage in war with Turkey if Cyprus was attacked or blockaded.

By December 1997, reports began to surface in Greece and Cypriot media forums that Russia was in the process of mobilising a large naval force which would include an aircraft carrier with long-range warplanes, a guided-missile cruiser and attack submarines. The presumption was that this force would have two purposes – to transport S-300 missiles and other military articles via Greek waters to Cyprus, and secondly, to destroy the Turkish Navy should it try to intervene.

Avoiding a Casus Belli in Cyprus

The reason for the unusually strong Turkish reaction is bound up with the Greek-Cypriot "Common Defense Doctrine" of 1993. Had it come to missiles being stationed on Cyprus, Greece would have been able to threaten Turkey from Cyprus. After conflicts in Yugoslavia broke out at the beginning of the 1990--and borders and established states suddenly seemed to be changeabl--the impression arose in Greece that Turkey wanted to establish an "Islamic arc" to encircle Greece. This arc would curve from Albania through the Yugoslav successor states into the eastern Mediterranean.

If Europe fears Israel then only solution is to arm Cyprus with lots of aerial defense. Also Britain house a very large radar in Cyprus, but I wouldn't trust those with a kids toy due to their suspicious behavior during Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by spacebot]

Originally posted by ForAiur
So it's OK to paint all Jews with a brush ("eats babies"). But it's never OK to categorize "white folks."

What kind of hypocrisy is this?

The # is with some people? How do you read my post while somehow managing to ignore my first line?

Originally posted by Ridhya
Isnt that as bad lumping all Jews are behind the Zionist world conspiracy?

Ok , Israel... should shut the hell up. Palestine, should shut the hell up. The US and UK should turn both countries into gently smoking sheets of glass unless they promise to stop dirtying up the homeland of the faith of half the planet with thier pointless, childish , pathetic, warmongering and xenophobia. A curse on both thier houses .

Originally posted by Magnum007
They wouldn't stand a chance... That little piece of land vs. Europe... HAHAHAHAHAHA... It's like Sponge Bob vs. Goliath...

Interesting read though... Made me smile for once...

Magnum

Smile????

Unfortunately, this kind of post and thinking is totally naive - but still all too common.

Of course something like the OP is pure conjecture and not likely to happen, but IF it did, once the missiles are on there way Europe would basically cease to exist - especially since Europe turned down the missile defense system to protect them from that other "rogue" middle eastern country (iran). Now there's a real piece of strategic thinking!

Sure Europe's military might be able to retaliate, but Europe would still be a wasteland with the number of "not fans of Israel" as someone wrote also reduced by a huge number.

[edit on 3/16/2010 by centurion1211]

reply to post by centurion1211


It makes me smile because it's like a kid telling his dad that he can beat him in a race; it's nonsense. It's a threat that makes me laugh because there's no way that Israel could get the gonads to do it, there is no way anyone would support them, and there's no way that they would even be able to do it without being destroyed before their finger even gets near the "nuke" button...



Magnum

Just for the sake of sanity, i should point out that the stock pile of nukes that reside within eu nations far exceeds what Israel has. Having said that, i guess its time for me to move onto another thread.

P.S. Thanks for the smile while reading through your thread.


Peace.

Say, maybe folks here could try that excuse out in court,

"You honour, I was forced to rape the girl."

I wonder how far that would go?

Originally posted by spacebot
reply to post by OddTimeSignature

 

I don't know if after that period Israel decided just in case to retrofit submarines with nuclear capability. I think if I am not mistaken they might have ordered a German variant which could hold some nuclear payloads if modified. I leave this to anyone which might be more knowledgeable about Israeli naval capabilities.

Here is a bit of further detail for you, and indeed you are right it seems for some time they have the ability to have sub launched Nuclear Weapons

Three 1,925 ton Type 800 Dolphin class submarines have been built in German shipyards for the Israel Navy. Modern submarines with the most advanced sailing and combat systems in the world, they combine extensive sophistication with very easy operation. The purpose of these submarines is to enable the Israel Navy to meet all the tasks faced in the Mediterranean Sea in the 21st century. The submarines cost $320 million each, and are twice as big as the aging Gal-class submarines that the Israeli navy has relied on to date.



According to some reports the submarines may be capable of carrying nuclear-armed Popeye Turbo cruise missiles, with a goal of deterring an enemy from trying to take out its nuclear weapons with a surprise attack.



An article published by the Los Angeles Times in mid-October 2003, indicated that Israel had successfully modified American-supplied Harpoon cruise missiles for use with nuclear warheads on its submarines. The process would have involved reducing the size of the warheads to fit inside the missiles as well as altering the guidance systems so as to be able to hit land-based targets, but would enable Israel to deliver nuclear weapons from the sea virtually unimpedded. The claim was however disputed by Israeli and others who questioned the ability of the Harpoon missile to carry a nuclear payload.



It was also reported that Israeli engineers had modified the missile launching pads of earlier Dolphin submarines at the Kiel's HDW dockyard, possibly to accomodate nuclear warheads.

1

In addition:

In May 2000, Israel is reported to have secretly carried out its first test launches from two German-built Dolphin-class submarines of cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. The missiles launched from vessels off Sri Lanka in the Indian Ocean are said to have hit a target at a range of about 1,500 kilometers [about 930 statute miles]. Israel is reported to possess a 200kg nuclear warhead, containing 6kg of plutonium, that could be mounted on cruise missiles.

Indeed, because of the small size of the vehicle and the limited testing program to date, it is entirely possible that even the US intelligence community has only limited insight into the capabilities of this system. There is no particular reason to doubt that Israel could develop a variant of the Popeye Turbo with a range of 1,500 km, simply by lengthening the fuel tank associated with a 300-350 km variant reported by US intelligence.



The four larger 25.5 inch diameter torpedo tubes could be used to launch a long-range nuclear-capable submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM).

2

So from this information it seems that for some time indeed Israel has had the ability to deploy a very very silent and advanced submarine with the ability to lauch an "Suprise" attack of the coast of any country.

If the modifications have already been carried out, indeed Israel from its own waters could hit most of Russia, and all of Europe, with Nuclear weapons.

The issue with cruise missiles is there devastating accuracy therefore not needing a large warhead, and their ability to be launched and fly at all times below the radar coverage of any defense systems.

It is doubfull if launched anyone would know until they were visually spotted "Popping" up just before the targets city and going to the altitude of detonation.

No Launch plumes, no attack planes just an "Event" when it is all over.

In addition with the ability to change flight plans and speeds, a lot of them could be fired and all arrive on target Pan Continent Europe say 4 capital cities simultaniously, and no one would have a clue where they came from.

Anyhow by the time the nuclear teams had sampled the isotopes, to find the source (which by default due to the Stolen or allowed material) would show USA reactors as the parent of the material.

But by then the world would be inflames, and Israel would have dropped it normal plane carrying ones on Syria, Egypt, Iran on the pretext of just reacting to events nothing to do with them.

We all know how their attitude to war is based on this, spin, and much use of flase flag or trickery, Mossad is the best at this in the world.

What would happen Britain, France etc Nuke the USA as the material came from there?

Of course not.

Ultimate plausable deniability of the Israeli move if ever made, as the Sampsom Option.

Originally posted by Magnum007
It's a threat that makes me laugh because there's no way that Israel could get the gonads to do it, there is no way anyone would support them, and there's no way that they would even be able to do it without being destroyed before their finger even gets near the "nuke" button...

Mmm well unless you have totally missed the entire "Balls of Steel" display of the Israeli state since inception I cant even fathom wher you get that historical viewpoint from. I hope you find the above a little thought provoking and educational.

I am not saying they are going to do it, but they have the capability, and certainly its written into their strategy via the Samsom Option.

"Forgive them father, for they do not know what they do" comes to mind much.

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 16-3-2010 by MischeviousElf]

Originally posted by tristar
Just for the sake of sanity, i should point out that the stock pile of nukes that reside within eu nations far exceeds what Israel has.

Just for the sake of common sense, and as I pointed out previously, if the missiles are in flight and you have no defense, it doesn't matter who has more missiles. Israel is also a very small country, so at some point the number of missiles you can aim at it is a moot point.

And do I also need to point out that anyone nuking Israel for any reason will also kill muslims across the middle east with fallout due to prevailing winds.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by tristar
Just for the sake of sanity, i should point out that the stock pile of nukes that reside within eu nations far exceeds what Israel has.

Just for the sake of common sense, and as I pointed out previously, if the missiles are in flight and you have no defense, it doesn't matter who has more missiles. Israel is also a very small country, so at some point the number of missiles you can aim at it is a moot point.

And do I also need to point out that anyone nuking Israel for any reason will also kill muslims across the middle east with fallout due to prevailing winds.

Israel is well destined to implode rather than explode, moving along with the euro scene, the early missile defence systems scattered throughout central and southern europe are far more capable of handling inbound birds regardless of height (sea level), this also applies to high orbit nav systems.

Originally posted by tristar
Just for the sake of sanity, i should point out that the stock pile of nukes that reside within eu nations far exceeds what Israel has. Having said that, i guess its time for me to move onto another thread.

Very true,although no amount of Nukes would save any country who was being attacked by the same,even if said country managed to launch all weapons.

Once the bad birds start flying its pretty much game over for us all.
The country which has 10 nukes will fare the same as that which has 100s.
Most of the people will die,but who will survive?

Those in the underground hardened bunkers,the undeclared underground cities,the shadow governments.
They could be the intended survivors,lord knows they have the seed banks,and weapons.

But,could we hope to live at a more interesting point in time?
On the very edge of reason and at the potential for us to progress,or disintergrate into anonimyty before anyone else in this incredible universe even has a chance to introduce themselves.

Screw nuclear bombs IMO,.

(Sorry for semi off topic)




[edit on 16/3/2010 by Silcone Synapse]

Heh.... Israel will be the one to be blown away, right along with the rest of the Middle East. Hell, even the Bible states that.... The whole Middle East is going to burn.... As bad as it pains me to say this, GOOD RIDDANCE!!!

[edit on 16-3-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

deleted

[edit on 16-3-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross]

Originally posted by December_Rain

Originally posted by DarkspARCS
lol...

Why oh Why did America give such a paranoid and hostile group of people control over something so vastly destructive!....

It's like giving an open pack of matches to a baby in one hand and a lit match in the other and then telling them to go play...

A little correction here, it was actually France that supplied nuclear weapon tech. to Israel, USA only helped build reactors. (Ref. - History of Israel's Nuclear Establishment & U.S Role.

True, but don't forget Pollard: how do you suppose he got his information?

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Thank you for the info.

In May 2000, Israel is reported to have secretly carried out its first test launches from two German-built Dolphin-class submarines of cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. The missiles launched from vessels off Sri Lanka in the Indian Ocean are said to have hit a target at a range of about 1,500 kilometers [about 930 statute miles]. Israel is reported to possess a 200kg nuclear warhead, containing 6kg of plutonium, that could be mounted on cruise missiles.

Indeed, because of the small size of the vehicle and the limited testing program to date, it is entirely possible that even the US intelligence community has only limited insight into the capabilities of this system. There is no particular reason to doubt that Israel could develop a variant of the Popeye Turbo with a range of 1,500 km, simply by lengthening the fuel tank associated with a 300-350 km variant reported by US intelligence.

This can only mean one word.
Trouble.
They can for instance play hide and seek in the Mediterranean, firing away undetected, creating false flags everywhere.
They can do the same in the Black Sea IF they secretly bribe the Turks or some of their stuff that would be happy with a sudden mayhem, to let one of their subs pass through Hellespont. Meanwhile at the edge of their targeting solution can safely hide at Indian waters or Oman and strike away at coastal targets at Iran, of course very near the NATO navy patrols.
They don't really need to attack anyone, they just need to create a mess through a series of false flag operations.
Also, I don't trust these people.

Look at this:
Rabi Vilna Gaon
en.wikipedia.org...

Title: If the Vilna Gaon was right, the 3rd Temple is on its way
www.haaretz.com...

Vilna Gaon was Elijah ben Shlomo Zalman born in 1720 and died in 1797. He had studied Euclid extensively and was considered a wonder child for his abilities at early age, for legal matters and math, he.. well I think i can let the Haaretz explain it better in their 30/11/2009 article:

If the 18th-century rabbinic authority the Vilna Gaon was right, on March 16, 2010, construction will begin on the third Temple. His projection states that the auspicious day will coincide with the third completion of the Hurva Synagogue in Jerusalem's Jewish Quarter.

Some at israel believe that the Hurva synagogue is what will supposedly signal the final phase for the start of the building of the new Temple of Solomon and that Vilna Gaon allegedly had set a specific date according to some calendar on which day this should happen. I don't know much about that mystical way of finding dates, I assume they are chosen because anything starting at such dates might have high chances of completion in the future according to some obscure art.

Also check vilna gaon hurva at Google.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by spacebot]

A question to the OP
What made you post this thread?

Haaretz article date 30/11/2009: If the 18th-century rabbinic authority the Vilna Gaon was right, on March 16, 2010, construction will begin on the third Temple.

Well, yesterday was March 16 2010.


[edit on 16-3-2010 by spacebot]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Heh.... Israel will be the one to be blown away, right along with the rest of the Middle East. Hell, even the Bible states that.... The whole Middle East is going to burn.... As bad as it pains me to say this, GOOD RIDDANCE!!!

[edit on 16-3-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

Thats not exactly what the Bible says, its more along the lines of the whole earth burning.

Humansss. Good Riddance!!!

At least that what this guy said.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/233ff97d83e2.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 16/3/10 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Thats not exactly what the Bible says, its more along the lines of the whole earth burning.

I really don't think so. I think it will be more of a localized event....