Israeli Official: West Has 4-8 Weeks Left for Iran Diplomacy

reply to post by mmiichael


Interesting. Do you have a link or any evidence to back your claim that there was an Iranian Revolutionary Guard unit in Gaza during the Israeli attack?

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by Silcone Synapse

 

I think that Israel is saying that they don't want to be the ones to handle this growing problem but, if the rest fo the world keeps jogging in place, they will be left with no choice.

As compare to what? History shows us Israel invading Syria and Iraq nuclear stations on it's own. Certainly peace doesn't factor in. Iran has consistently denied that it seeks nuclear weapons and its leaders have even declared such weapons to be "against Islam". Iran may or may not be seeking nuclear weapons in fact, as per the signatories of NPT they are practicing their rights. nuclear energy could free up it's domestic use of oil and natural gas which can be further used for export. These reasons are self sufficient and basis of logic so I won't go into detail about Iran's need for nuclear energy further unless someone can prove they cannot use more foreign export.

Remember, Iran is led by a man who thinks Israel shouldn't exist. He believes that they should be taken out of existence. These are threats against Israel.

Frankly, I am quiet disappointed to hear this famous myth from yourself. Let's repeat it again for the probably thousandth time on ATS
Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website, and was a quote of Ayatollah Khomeini

So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi:
"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

The full quote translated directly to English: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word translation: Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
(Source)

they are merely stating that the threat of a nuclear Iran is, most definitely, a threat their existence

Of course they are stating their opinion which they have full right too even though it reeks of hypocrisy knowing Israel does not follow IAEA resolutions but nvm. let's go ahead

and, while the West seems to agree that Iran should never go nuclear,

The good question is why all of a sudden? If I remember correctly USA helped Iran install nuclear station

A civil nuclear co-operation program was established under the U.S. Atoms for Peace program. In 1967, the Tehran Nuclear Research Center (TNRC) was established, run by the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran (AEOI). The TNRC was equipped with a U.S.-supplied, 5-megawatt nuclear research reactor, which became operational in 1967 and was fueled by highly enriched uranium

Source:www.nnsa.energy.gov...

A newspaper article brings back the memory

Perhaps it has to do something with Democracy overthrowing US backed puppet Shah? Or Iran trying to control it's own Oil?

since they aren't doing enough to stop them,

I agree with you honestly they are not at all doing enough to stop Iran. Also it doesn't help Iran being categorised as "Axis of Evil" after Iran helping US invade Afghanistan and spending 750 million dollars overthrowing Taliban or
* supporting Iraq (providing arms) in a bloody 8-year war against Iran or
* shooting down an Iranian airliner in 1988 or
* and trying repeatedly to topple the regime, among other things.
It is sanctions that have been tried and failed for five years by Bush Administration. It refused to talk to Iran at all about nuclear issues because Iran did not accept U.S. demands that it first suspend all enrichment. More of the same is not going to produce different results, and trying for "crippling sanctions" will only make things worse. Even last year when Obama took office he stated he will talk with Iran without any pre-conditions but he did not and instead has resorted to same old threats and sanctions.

Israel will be left with no other choice than to eliminate the threat.

Please go ahead and do it but it should come crying later for the consequences.

Rest assured, if Israel does wind up destroying those nuclear sites, it will be done with the silent approval of any and all nations impacted by this decision.

Agree with this.

The public stance will be to condone Israel but the only way Israel will be able to accomplish the task will be with weapons from the US, approval to fly over some nations and agreement to not get involved in any retaliations from other nations.

Are we talking about the public in West or in Iran?

They've been forced into this position in the past and it didn't lead to any global wars.

Well yes but in past it wasn't Iran.

given the West's repeated attempts to curtail the nuclear problem and given Iran's repeated refusal to even work with the West in a resolution.

Completely false statement and discredited above.

[edit on 9-3-2010 by December_Rain]

reply to post by mmiichael


100 Iranian fighters in Gaza at time of Cast Lead??? - I never heard of that. I have followed all news closely from Gaza Op, but cant remember any of that... Please back up your claims with info links!

Originally posted by December_Rain

Remember, Iran is led by a man who thinks Israel shouldn't exist. He believes that they should be taken out of existence. These are threats against Israel.

Frankly, I am quiet disappointed to hear this famous myth from yourself. Let's repeat it again for the probably thousandth time on ATS
Ahmadinejad's phrase was " بايد از صفحه روزگار محو شود " according to the text published on the President's Office's website, and was a quote of Ayatollah Khomeini

So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi:
"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

The full quote translated directly to English: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word translation: Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
(Source)

I don't know why people attempt to downplay this statement. You do realize that most of the time, when someone quotes an important person, they tend to agree with the statement they are quoting.

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

This statement isn't any better!!! Often time, when people claim that something has been misquoted, the actual quote helps their argument. How would you suppose they would go about making the Israeli government (regime occupying Jerusalem), vanish from the page of time?

The direct translation may have been a bit off, but the effect is still the same. Instead of thinking that they shouldn't exist, he is quoting statements saying that they need to vanish from the pages of time. Does that involve burning their books, buildings and everything relating to their way of life? They wouldn't vanish from the pages of time unless it happened. What do you think his plan was? Wait until it carried itself out naturally?

Instead of defending this leader, why don't you just admit that he may have went to far with this one. Just a suggestion.

[edit on 9-3-2010 by Styki]

4 - 8 weeks and then isreal will put in place crippling sanctions.... NOTHING about a military attack, please dont twist the words.

Hmmm... I can read this differently:" (maybe journalist should update this story)

"Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon today announced that the nation was giving the West another 4-8 weeks to attempt diplomacy with Iran, and that after that they (West) would have to impose crippling sanctions on the nation (Iran).

In the strory there is nothing "what then if not" ...

"Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon today announced that the nation was giving the West another 4-8 weeks to attempt diplomacy with Iran, and that after that (isreal) would have to impose crippling sanctions on the nation (Iran) if the (wests) diplomacy doesnt work.

thats how i read it

:s lol

reply to post by December_Rain


since the issue of the quote has been handled perfectly already, I'll simply thank you for further proving that point.

as to why the US is against this now and wasn't when the Shah was at the wheel, well, the Shah was not threatening Israel, not threatening the West.

Obama hasn't done as he's promised. Period. Not a single promise has been kept. Promising to sit down and talk with Iran was never going to happen and I haven't a clue why he'd even suggest it.


As mentioned, Israel is threatening sanctions. My guess is their sanctions won't have an impact on Iran anyway and I won't rule out an attack on a facility that they feel is a direct threat to them. Like the prior facilities they destroyed. They are surrounded by nations hell bent on their destruction. They are constantly faced with threats. They, generally, rely on outside forces to contain these threats. They do this because they know the repurcussions if they act instead. They can only wait so long.

reply to post by Itop1


Yep! - It really can read many ways... Sorry that journalists doesnt do their important work well... But I think that given timeline is still the main issue in here.

I read this earlier on an Israeli news site, and unless we see China backing sanctions then their aren't going to be any. Where does that leave these countries? Will Biden convince Obama to go thru' with it...

China are expanding their investments in Iran's oil industry, rather than reducing them. So, it seems China's confidence levels may be enough to turn down the Saudi oil deals in favour of more investment in Iran. These investments may help keep the Iranian regime afloat, and ideas of bankrupcy may now go out of the window.

We shouldn't really lay blame at the opposition for going underground. After all, who in the west would have the guts to go up against armoured riot vehicles (supplied by China), never mind the Basij on motorbikes with guns, and the threat of going to the torture chambers at Evin prison.

If only we had another 2-3 years to wait, the opposition movement would have more time as they would never have simply given up altogether. It doesn't seem Israel would even wait until the end of this year, and we know the Jewish lobby including Biden will have enough power to persuade Obama to give in.

In a war with Iran, we can say goodbye to any opposition movement, except against any occupiers. We shall be talking about the consequences of this for decades, and if we should have given the green movement opposition more time, as the result of actions taken in the next few months will likely be catastrophic with many countries in complete ruins.

I think they should directly cut international flying...

If the citizens can't get in or out of the country, it will certainly cause major backlash... maybe against the West, but heck, they'll be stuck in Iran.. then they'll have to take it up with their government.



[edit on 9-3-2010 by CanadianDream420]

Originally posted by Itop1
4 - 8 weeks and then isreal will put in place crippling sanctions.... NOTHING about a military attack, please dont twist the words.

True, but the sanctions Obama's looking for are targeted sanctions against the revolutionary guards. And what happens if China vetos or abstains at the UN?

Biden has already committed the US to stand with Israel until the very end. Obama's own commitments to prevent Iran acquiring nukes has placed him into a corner and he cannot back down or escape from that unless China decides to back sanctions. At the very least, 4-8 weeks is likely the countdown to another similar countdown towards military action.

Biden Promises 'Total' US Commitment to Israel's Security

Biden reassured Mr. Netanyahu, who is known to his friends as "Bibi," that bonds remain strong.

"A cornerstone of the relationship is our absolute total, unvarnished commitment to Israel's security," Biden said. "Bibi, you heard me say before: progress occurs in the Middle East when everyone knows there is simply no space between the United States and Israel. There is no space between the United States and Israel when it comes to Israel's security."

reply to post by Crakeur


There was never ment to come any negotiations between US and Iran, and there never will with these Illuminati rulers (banksters) in power. We see that clearly in time of Geneva confrence last april, when Iran was actively trying to arrange direct talks... Israeli and US diplomats just walked out from room.

Envoys walk out of U.N. anti-racism conference

edition.cnn.com...

I think all-out war is already decided to come, now its time just to gain political momentum to start it, and Iran knows that.

Obama is just another puppet of banksters - I think when looking US political history - real power is more and more in VPs hands (Bush, Cheney, Biden) - and truth from where we are today, has just given out by Biden in Jerusalem today:

Biden: US to prevent nuclear Iran

www.jpost.com...

Its no matter what Obama says indirectly, when Biden says it straight. After Gaza Op, there is no turning back - just get ready for war!

Originally posted by JanusFIN

Israeli Official: and that after that they would have to impose crippling sanctions on the nation.

Huh ?

How can Israel impose sanctions against Iran ?
What does Israel buy or sell from Iran that would cripple Iran if that trade stopped ?

Sounds and smells like BS.

Originally posted by Silver Shadow

Huh ?

How can Israel impose sanctions against Iran ?

It clearly means cripple them physically.

bombs away.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
Do you have a link or any evidence to back your claim that there was an Iranian Revolutionary Guard unit in Gaza during the Israeli attack?

There were detailed reports in 2009. Iran was silent on this.

First references I can find:

www.henryjacksonsociety.org...

Operation Cast Lead consisted of more than the IDF and Hamas. Israel was also illustrating its strength to the political leadership of Hamas in Syria, as well as to Hizballah in southern Lebanon. Moreover, Israel was battling Iranian influence. It was only last May when Hamas leader Mishal, who heads the organization from Damascus, visited Tehran. During that trip, the Iranians declared their intention to supply more weapons and capital to Hamas.

It has also been documented that Hamas terrorists have travelled to Iran, Syria, and Lebanon for training. In fact, the commander of Hamas’ militant wing “confirmed for the first time that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard has been training its men in Tehran for more than two years.”

politicom.moldova.org...

Report: Hamas's 'Iranian unit' destroyed

The so-called Iranian unit of Hamas that trained with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard has been destroyed in fighting with Israel, Palestinian officials said.

Most of the Iranian-trained unit's members were killed in clashes in Gaza's Zeytun neighborhood, Haaretz reported Friday.

Approximately 100 men traveled to Iran and Hezbollah camps, where they were trained in infantry fighting tactics, use of anti-tank missiles, explosives detonation, among other things, Palestinian sources told Haaretz.

reply to post by mmiichael


This is from your original post

When Israel went into Gaza last year there was a prime Iranian Revolutionary Guard squadron of 100. They were there to show how to fight a modern war. They got totally wiped out, every single one.

I'm not sure if you meant trained Hamas unit or actual Iranain Rev Guard unit?

There is a big difference between Hamas Units being trained by their ally the Rev Guard, and actual Rev Guard troops present in Gaza at the time ane involved in the fighting.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by mmiichael

 

This is from your original post

When Israel went into Gaza last year there was a prime Iranian Revolutionary Guard squadron of 100. They were there to show how to fight a modern war. They got totally wiped out, every single one.

I'm not sure if you meant trained Hamas unit or actual Iranain Rev Guard unit?

There is a big difference between Hamas Units being trained by their ally the Rev Guard, and actual Rev Guard troops present in Gaza at the time ane involved in the fighting.

Relying on memory, I read an in-depth military technique analysis from a non-media source - either Janes or Stratfor. Much interest these days understanding effectiveness and problems of modern warfare.

The Rev Guard has a floating force that goes on site to hot spots to advise and oversee operations for their proxies. They were too obvious and got pulled out of Iraq a while back. More recently spotted in Yemen, Lebanon, Gaza. As I recall they have a revolving contingency of Iranian trainees getting hands-on training. Some, (all?) bit the bullet in Cast Lead.

A lot of chaos back then with Hamas leaders hiding in a hospital basement.

Details of all probably online in some Iranian expatriate blog - the best source for solid Iranian news.



[edit on 9-3-2010 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by Styki
I don't know why people attempt to downplay this statement. You do realize that most of the time, when someone quotes an important person, they tend to agree with the statement they are quoting.

The reason for that is the blind hypocrisy, every week some or other Western Nation, even lowly ranked US Govt. officials statements are printed against Iran Govt. sometimes mentioning it as a "threat" :sometimes as dictatorship" with repeated statements printing every week says Iran will be attacked..final warning blah blah etc etc, if one starts making list of all the statements back and forth I am sure it will fill couple of pages. That is why it's important to remind every time the war of words is going from both sides and not just from Iran as it's being tried to be projected.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by December_Rain

 

As mentioned, Israel is threatening sanctions. My guess is their sanctions won't have an impact on Iran anyway and I won't rule out an attack on a facility that they feel is a direct threat to them. Like the prior facilities they destroyed.

I agree with this statement 100%. Imho sanctions and attacks won't work at all only a talk without any pre conditions would be a positive step. The recent history of Iran makes it clear that national self-preservation and regional influence not some quest for martyrdom in the service of Islam is Iran's main goal. For example:
• In the 1990s, Iran chose a closer relationship with Russia over support for rebellious Chechen Muslims.
• Iran actively supported and helped to finance the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.
• During the Iran-Iraq War, Iran developed secret ties and traded arms with Israel.

I bet not many people were aware of all above mentioned points. Iran simply wants recognition and influence in their region which every other country wants. Instead of sanctions US and other powers should take pro active steps such as including Iran in rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan and in return should ask Iran to take steps in improving it's nuclear ties.

They are surrounded by nations hell bent on their destruction. They are constantly faced with threats. They, generally, rely on outside forces to contain these threats. They do this because they know the repurcussions if they act instead. They can only wait so long.

Israel is often portrayed as weak and besieged, a Jewish David surrounded by a hostile Arab Goliath. This image has been carefully nurtured by Israeli leaders and sympathetic writers, but the opposite image is closer to the truth. Contrary to popular belief, Israel had larger, better‐equipped, and better‐led forces during the 1947‐49 War of Independence and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) won quick and easy victories against Egypt in 1956 and against Egypt, Jordan, and Syria in 1967—before large‐scale U.S. aid began flowing to Israel. These victories offer eloquent evidence of Israeli patriotism, organizational ability, and military prowess, but they also reveal that Israel was far from helpless even in its earliest years.

Today, Israel is the strongest military power in the Middle East. Its conventional forces are far superior to its neighbors and it is the only state in the region with nuclear weapons. Egypt and Jordan signed peace treaties with Israel and Saudi Arabia has offered to do so as well. Syria has lost its Soviet patron, Iraq has been decimated by three disastrous wars, and Iran is hundreds of miles away. The Palestinians barely have effective police, let alone a military that could threaten Israel.

According to a 2005 assessment by Tel Aviv University’s prestigious Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies, “the strategic balance decidedly favors Israel, which has continued to widen the qualitative gap between its own military capability and deterrence powers and those of its neighbors.” If backing the underdog were a compelling rationale, the United States would be supporting Israel’s opponents.

[edit on 9-3-2010 by December_Rain]

reply to post by December_Rain


I wasn't implying that Israel was weak at all. On the contrary, they can fight their own battles and would probably put up a rather good fight if the entire surrounding region united against them. Even if they knew they were capable of a resounding victory, they'd still want to eliminate any threats to the fragile stability that they exist in.