911 Debunkers Take Beating on ATS.

reply to post by billybob


some of them very much are - including the more vocal ones on this thread.

please don't try and tell me that the folks glued to the Alex Jones program don't fit the profile.

this is a fact that the folks screwing up this movement need to hear - and the more moderate among us are tired of the fanatical nonsense and the damage it does to our credibility.

obviously this doesn't apply to all - but it sure as heck applies to a ton.

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

Look Evil, I was not makin a 'claim' or a 'fact', I was making an observation. Don't you get it?

I am really sorry to do this. I know that some will take this as an attack or uncivil behavior but I have to point something out to you.

When you post on the internet, it leaves a record of what you said. We can go back and refer to this record to see if what you say is consistent with what you said.

Don't you get it?

Let me demonstrate-

Originally posted by evil incarnate

Again, can you please explain this. Are you saying that it was bouncing off the other buildings back into the center? Are you saying that the other buildings worked as blockers?

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by evil incarnate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


both. As I asked before, where else could it go? It hit up aainst the other buildings as it went down, and landed in the only place it could.

You will see that I bolded my question and then your response. I was not simply attacking you for some claim you never made. I clearly asked if this was what you were claiming and you answered that it was. I reposted it above for you just to refresh your memory.

If it is just what you think might have happened, that is cool and all but that is not what you said. You said that it is what happened. There is a distinct difference.

My proof? the picture that was posted by he OP.

This is what really confuses me. Please understand that I am not attacking you. I am not trying to be rude. I am just trying to see if we can reach a middle ground between what you seem to think happened and claim did indeed happen and what it looks to me like happened.

See, the pictures in the OP clearly show that what you are saying happened did not happen at all. The pictures you are referring to completely refute what you are saying. I do not understand how they lead you to believe what you are saying happened.

The physics of it makes no sense but I would have been willing to listen to some explanation there. We have pictures and damage reports and they confirm that your idea is not what happened.

So now that you have gone from a claim to an idea. Are you at least willing to either show me what in the pictures makes you believe this? Are you willing to be open minded to the idea that you might be wrong?

Was I polite enough for your friend this time? He is on ignore so I really hope I did good.

g'night all.

let your own words explain to you why nobody takes the truthers seriously.

then observe people in the world who get taken seriously.

note the differences.

close the gap.

or be satisfied with message board heroics.

see you ... long time from now i hope. i get this itch to revisit this stuff every so often... and a quick trip to the boards always reminds me why i left this venture behind a while back.

try having this same type of conversation with real people in the real world - see how far you get.



[edit on 8-3-2010 by TrueTruth]

Originally posted by TrueTruth
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

me? nothing but rude?

that's entertaining. in fact, just a short while ago, i got a star in another thread for being civil and open minded.

from me, you get what you give.

bsbray was being rude, so i decided to engage him, so to speak.

and you were being rude as well.

maybe you really don't see it. i suppose that's possible.

if so, then let me educate you:

You should really quit while you are ahead. You may be all kinds of charming in other threads but you cannot tell us what was so rude about what EVIL posted. All you could do was attack right away and then justify your attack from the get go by saying that his tone changed.

That is such a weak argument in a place where people can read the real text. No wonder he put you on ignore.

Too bad I am still finding you entertaining.

PS- please keep bragging about the stars you get because I keep giving you stars for making me laugh. I hope you are bragging in other threads that you are getting starred for being so hilariously nonsensical!

Originally posted by TrueTruth
vanish? go screw.

get back to me when you need two hands to count your pubes.

Ahhh... I just wanted a reminder of how a civilized person posts. Should I follow your example? If so then I need to edit out any of the posts I have made that were not full of baseless insults.

I used to have a priest that was concerned with the amount of pubic hair the boys had too. You clergy?

You cannot show us where evil was ever even close to that rude to anyone, let alone you.

You cannot explain how 4 times is "immediate."

You are just here, posting nastiness.

Any reason anyone should not ignore you? Seriously, do you have anything constructive to offer at all?

reply to post by evil incarnate


We are both lookin at the same picture. I see what I think I see, you see wha you think you see. You want me to prove what I think I see??? I don't know what you are asking for. I am not a troll. I am a respected member. I looked a the picture he OP posted. IMO< I see a building that has collapsed. You look a the picture and see dick cheney blowin it up. Niether of us is ever gonna see what the other sees. I have treated you with respect, and am truly done here now wih this unfair assault.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Kevin, it is like this. The poor sould said these things to me during his rant.

back off, and let the woman ask questions. if you'd like to kindly explain why you disagree with her, trot out data demonstrating why.

trust me - i missed nothing. she came in, asked a couple of questions, and people jumped all over her like she was on fire.

Neither one of these statements applies to even one of my posts. I was not even here or part of the discussion about any questions she asked. I read her claim and asked her a question - politely.

Then I got attacked for the above listed reasons. He was wrong and confused me with apparently a group of people that were posting before me and refused to simply admit that I never attacked her. He even had to change his description of me three times until he could only tell me that eventually my tone changed.

If that is not deceptive and argument for the sake of argument I do not know what is.

I mean, I was even willing to try and understand but I kept reading the above quotes and seeing how I was being lashed out at for something that had nothing to do with me.

This person has done such a good job of doing the exact type of behavior that is given in the OP and yet he refers to himself as a "truther?"

I do not get why people like that even bother to post here. I mean if you can never acknowledge when you made a mistake or might be wrong, then what could you possible plan to gain from a discussion with others aside from hearing your own voice and knowing others hear it as well; whether they are listening or not.

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

We are both lookin at the same picture. I see what I think I see, you see wha you think you see.

Then is there a way you can point out the damage to the facades of the surrounding buildings from the ricocheting all the way down for me? Can you at least tell me where to look for it?

You want me to prove what I think I see???

Well, since we have a picture and you claim to see it in that picture...what is the problem? I am not asking for an interpretation of modern art. If something is in the photograph then you can point it out. Does that really not make sense to you?

I don't know what you are asking for. I am not a troll.

Well, I was originally asking for proof of your claim and I asked 4 times and got deflections 4 times. That is trolling by any book. Since you have stepped back from it being a claim to just an idea, fine. I let it go.

What I am asking for now is for you to help me see in the picture what you see in the picture.

My issue is not so much that I am having trouble seeing it. My problem is that I can clearly see evidence that what you are saying is not even remotely true.

I am a respected member.

That is great. I guess I forgot to vote for most respected member this year. Who were the judges this time around?

See, now that was kind of rude. I did mean it in the spirit of a little humor though so I hope you can take it that way.

I looked a the picture he OP posted. IMO< I see a building that has collapsed.

I am not arguing that. I see a collapsed building as well.

So far so good.

You look a the picture and see dick cheney blowin it up.

What? Have I put any words in your mouth? Why would you do that to me? Search my name + Dick Cheney. If you find one single post where I ever said his name, please let me know because that would mean someone has been using my screen name.

I see a collapsed building too. I am not disputing that. I find it pretty distasteful that instead of actually trying to talk to me about your idea you would just put words in my mouth and assume I oppose every aspect of what you think you see. I hope you understand why that is not constructive or deserved.

Niether of us is ever gonna see what the other sees.

You apparently have no clue what I see. I am not sure I even stated what I see. I have said what I do not see though and that is what you do see. You can point it out to me though, as I said, it is a photograph.

I have treated you with respect, and am truly done here now wih this unfair assault.

If I assaulted you I truly appologize. If you can show me where I did, please do and I will make all ammends that I can.

I am simply trying to understand what it is that you see because as many times as I look at the photographs, I still do not see it.

I am asking for help and you are calling it an assault. Fine, show me where I assaulted you and I will leave ATS forever, ok?

This is crazy talk, im not anyway near the USA an i know instinctively that 9/11 was a Scam with in hours of the Murder! i cant provide proof! but i know a crap story when i see one! wake up my American cousins take the dust out of your eyes because this is the biggest crime in History, are yea going to listen to His-story? (TPTB) or mystory? an many Honest people here who want answers! PS never call me a Truther, im just Honest!

Too many people in a deep state of denial, living in a make believe world of a perfect government.
Some of them cannot fathom the idea that their government would lie to them.
I wish I were ignorant, the truth is very painful I wish I didn’t know, what I know now.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by davec0021
Ok I'm pretty sure you said earlier or implied earlier and I paraphrase, that this implosion was indicative of a controlled demolition. I ask you does that look like a controlled demolition? Because I'm certain it's own footprint means controlled demolition to you.

A building falling straight down into its footprint does not prove demolition in and of itself, but I'll put it this way. Looking at how tall that building was, and considering the initial failure was at the base of the building, and that it was trying to lean anyway, the chances of it falling so far, as straight as it did, and doing so little damage to surrounding structures without the aid of demolition, are slim to none.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/67648f5dd4d5.jpg[/atsimg]

but the debris did significantly damage 30 West Broadway south. So again I contest that it didn't fall in it's own foot print. I will concede it did implode. How could it severely damage the building behind it with it being a controlled demolition? Secondly, why would you need to blow WTC7? If your point of view is true, don't you think WTC1 and 2 would have been enough?

Btw people I am allowed to agree or disagree. You all seem to do the same with out consequences so why not me too.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by davec0021]

[edit on 8-3-2010 by davec0021]

Its never enough for these Murders! Let me guess, i suppose you belive the OS on the Oklahoma Bombing? yea yea do dont yea, an Oswald killed Kennedy an Roosevelt was surprised in 1941 i could go on if you wanted me to! wake up look at your history! PS the Indians were the good guys, John Wayne wasent real!

[edit on 8-3-2010 by DCDAVECLARKE]

Originally posted by DCDAVECLARKE
Its never enough for these Murders!

Who's a murderer? I'm having a debate about controlled demolition of WTC 7, nothing else.

Originally posted by davec0021

Originally posted by DCDAVECLARKE
Its never enough for these Murders!

Who's a murderer? I'm having a debate about controlled demolition of WTC 7, nothing else.

Sorry i got a bit emotional there when it was said "is it ever enough"!
it was a debunker challenge!

more photo evidence of the debris field, dosen't look like drift to me. I am prepared to have the semantics debate, if you like.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/55f4dc057346.jpg[/atsimg]

more photo evidence to damage from falling debris from WTC 7
30 West Broadway.

do you all really call this little to no damage to 30 West Broadway?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c2d61add0fdb.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 8-3-2010 by davec0021]

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Now, since they have been taking a beating here the next step is for these individuals or groups to start posting Bizarre, Stupid theories like , Directed energy weapons, pods, space beams, lasers, fuel tankers and other overly debunked material in attempts to pretend that it comes from 'truthers' which of course it they do not.

Some theories are crazy but that doesn't mean # pal! The easiest way to hide the truth is by creating as much noise as possible, however, one of those crazy theories HAD TO BE TRUE for 9-11 to happen the way it did, otherwise we could easily assume al-queda did.

The hard part is figuring out WHICH crazy theory fits the bill and going with it. Besides everyone is entitled an opinion, regardless if they are correct or wrong.

If I were you, I would be more concerned with the flat-out deniers that ONLY deny theories rather than those that are brave enough to propose ideas. Ideas never hurt anyone!

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
They will try to discredit 911 truth conversations with these disinformation theories that no real truth seeker ever supported them. Lead the opposition, or muddy the waters.

The 911 coverup is here and it is ugly.

p.s Keep an eye out for these ridiculous theories.

Here is some info on the theories and their tactics.
www.911disinformation.com...

25 ways to suppress the truth www.whale.to...

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

[edit on 7-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

Three edits! Can't decide which way to spin it?

Seriously dude, just relax a bit! You will live longer!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Hahhaa, ya got nothing, your attempts to discredit me or even generalize me in some group while attempting to flame is was pathetic at most.

edited to add links brainiac. Thanks for coming out.


[edit on 8-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by trueforger
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Y'all are not actual debunkers.These use reason and generally come away with more knowledge even if unconvinced.

Frankly, I never claimed to be a debunker of anything. But by your own words it seems that to you, a debunker is simply someone who doesn't set of an emotional response in you. To the OP it seems, anyone with an opposing viewpoint sets off an emotional response.

Man, you're good at picking out some mundane point and arguing it to death without considering the big picture that the OP has painted. I've see you do this many times and I've seen you derail many many good threads. I'm sick of it.

Welcome to ignore.

It drives me up the wall, maybe that's the intention!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


why 'go' with any theory?

isn't that where the mistakes begin - pretending we know?

we're better off keeping the burden of proof at the feet of the government. projecting in to the void is what keeps this movement marginal and mocked.

enough of the bombs/pods/beams/jews , etc.

why can't we stick with questions? if somebody guesses the right scenario - and i doubt anyone here has -do they win a balloon or something?

why even go there?

the people bent on being the most right only care about being right. if they cared an iota about progress, they'd knock off the guessing games and stick to the questions.