Exposing Christianity

reply to post by NOTurTypical


No. I know how the debate started. But I am confused as to why. The atheists claim they are persecuted above all others, Christians the same. Why do either of you feel the need to feel persecuted.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I think it's upt to the same psychology as with wars. Both sides are killing each other and blaming each other for starting the war?

They are the same coin's different sides which cannot get along. Agnostics know better

-v

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

No. I know how the debate started. But I am confused as to why. The atheists claim they are persecuted above all others, Christians the same. Why do either of you feel the need to feel persecuted.

Straw Man argument, no one claimed that the "felt the need to feel persecuted." In fact, no one in this current debate here on ATS has claimed to have personally been persecuted.

That's how debates work bro, someone posts a point, then another person posts a counter-point. Etc, etc.. Your line of questioning offers nothing constructive to the debate.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

more...

I thought what Watcher-In-The-Shadow said is not a misrepresentation but an actual fact often times in debates like these. Fruitless.

But carry on

-v

reply to post by v01i0


He said THIS specifically:

"Why do either of you feel the need to feel persecuted."

Speaking to myself as one of the "either of you". This is a straw man, I never claimed I was persecuted in this thread, nor have i ever "felt the need" to feel persecuted.

This is a Straw Man.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Oh sorry, didn't realize that you two were having a chat.

Been sitting too long front of the screen today, I begin to slip things past. Time to logout.

Take care and apologies again.

-v

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Semantics. And neither is it a strawman. Were you or were you not attempting to assert that Christians are more persecuted? Are you or are you not a Christian? Which you achieve by offering a HIGHLY biased website that would be suspect to anyone not a Christian. But the basic claim is funnily enough what some atheists like to claim as well. Both sides claim extreme persecution.



[edit on 18-3-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Thank you for showing respect for my religion! As a Christian, I respect that you have your own views- that is cool. However, the bashings we recieve aren't. Yes, there are some "black sheep" in the Christian community and they like to force their beliefs on everyone else. This isn't what a Christian is taught to do. Therfor, as a whole, ALL of us get a bad rap. So, again, KUDOS for being open-minded UNLIKE most Atheist- especially on this site. Thanks.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Sir/madam, I HAVE been persecuted for my beliefs HERE ON THIS SITE. When I respond to a post to defend my beliefs (W/O insulting anyone else, mind you) and MY interpretations of Christianity and/or the Bible, I AM HUNTED LIKE A FOX, INSULTED, CALLED NAMES, AND DISCREDITED AS TO HAVING NO INTELLIGENCE WHATSOEVER, solely for my RELIGION....Like I cannot think for myself, I'm some kind of "brainwashed, stupid, close-minded person" simply b/c I believe that God came down to live like a man and to save us. I REALLY AM NOT IMPRESSED W/ THIS SITE. It makes me wonder: If we're all supposedly "theorist" then we are SUPPOSED to have an open mind, right? WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE NASTY ON HERE, AND CLOSE-MINDED??????????

reply to post by nycfrog27


Welcome to the internet bro. The second you make any defense of christianity (even if you are mostly agnostic like me) or any other religion at least 1,000 rabid atheists will come in and tell you that they don't have to prove anything to you (even when you ask them to justify their challenge) and will then go on to tell you that you know nothing of evolutionary biology, geology or other sciences that are less than three centuries old.

Originally posted by Romans 10:9
How about some stats then...

* More than 43 million Christians have been killed for their faith since the crucifixion of Jesus.

* It's been estimated that more Christians have been martyred in the 20th Century than in all the prior 1,900 years combined.

* There have been more than 26 million documented cases of martyrdom in this century alone.

* More than 200 million Christians in over 60 nations face persecution each day, 60% of these are children.

* 150,000 to 165,000 are martyred each year.

There are two problems with your stats:

1.) They are derived from a fundamentalist Christian website dedicated to the persecution of Christians, and which has a vested self-interest in providing exagerated and utterly unverifiable figures.

2.) A huge proportion of Christians killed for their faith were murdered by... *drum roll* OTHER CHRISTIANS.

Sorry man. It doesn't wash. I have a Christian family, and a lot of respect for the true tenets of Christianity, but that persecution website is a furphy.

reply to post by nycfrog27

post to defend my beliefs

You shouldn't" have to post" to defend your beliefs. Even if someone posts something offensive. if your belief is solid enough it shouldn't even phase
you or what you believe. That's one thing I've learned from ATS. Nobody
here can cause me to react. People offend to draw you out. Timing is
everything.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Semantics. And neither is it a strawman. Were you or were you not attempting to assert that Christians are more persecuted? Are you or are you not a Christian? Which you achieve by offering a HIGHLY biased website that would be suspect to anyone not a Christian. But the basic claim is funnily enough what some atheists like to claim as well. Both sides claim extreme persecution.

I think you speculate waaaaay too often when simple reading will do you more good. I never claimed Christians were the most persecuted. I did however point out that those responsible for the crusades and inquisitions were not "Christians" as defined today, those nasty acts against humanity were perpetrated by the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope. I pointed out that these abuses were DIRECTED at protestants, not carried out by them.

Your next error was thinking that I posted stats and a website link to those stats which I did not, another ATS member did. I simply asked the member WHERE he got the stats he posted. Please, do your homework, read the ENTIRE debate here on this thread before you yet again try to speak with your own foot in your mouth.

Originally posted by Romans 10:9
www.persecution.com...

Ridiculous site. They complain that Christians are being fined/attacked/etc for "spreading the word of God" in certain countries. What do they expect if they try it in countries that have their own very strong belief systems?

Iran, Yemen, India...they mostly follow Islam and Hinduism, and I hate the fact that those missionaries have the nerve to question those peoples beliefs when in fact, they have no proof that their faith is better or more correct than that of the indigenous population. A bit of tolerance and allowing them to believe whatever they want would prevent those attacks.

I'm not condoning violence against anyone, but those missionaries are stupid and put themselves in harms way for an unjustifiable cause.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


As fascinating as your continued ignorant commentary on the subject of me may be. I take it you now disavow the following comment?

Thank you for posting that brother. i always get a kick when the facts b rhetoric out of the water.

reply to post by v01i0


I think you're right. And it justifies the fight if they convince themselves the other side is the agressor. It becomes "justice" in their minds when the eventually ultimate silliness comes you think?

reply to post by randyvs


I shall take that into consideration.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by anarchist-rebel

 

Don't get me wrong. I've no horse in this race as I am not by any stretch of the imagination a Christian. But if you did not wish to "stir the pot" why exactly did you post a site about the cruelties of the Inquisition under the thread title "Exposing Christianity"? Especially when knowledge of the Inquisition is not a rare thing. I'm sorry but it leads one to believe that was your aim to start yet another "all Christians suck because of monstrous things done along time ago" thread. Because if that was my aim it's exactly what I'd do. Most likely would deny that was my aim too, so those inclined to believe me would rally to defend me.

Excellent point. Not only that but it sounds suspiciously like Pack3tg0st, a self-proclaimed anarchist, from Amkon, formerly known on ATS as nj2day. In fact, this exact same topic was started on another forum by Pack3tg0st one and a half hours AFTER it was started here and at no time that Anarchist-Rebel posts here can a post be found from Pack3tg0st on the other site.

Not bashing Anarchist-Rebel or anything......

reply to post by anarchist-rebel


I just recently came back from my break apart from ATS. I see that the CiR forums haven't changed. There are still people out there that just do not understand.

Let me break this down for you very plain and very simple.

You will know a tree by its fruit. That is, regardless what one might CLAIM to be, it doesn't matter unless they ACT like it. Have you heard that phrase "actions speak louder than words"? It really is true.

If I tell you I'm a professional basketball player, will you believe me even if I can't make a free throw to save my life? What if I tell you that I'm a singer/songwriter but don't have any songs or refuse to sing for you?

Paul says in the Bible that being a Christian isn't just about professing a love for Jesus Christ and the Lord our God who loves us unconditionally. It's about giving our lives to Him as He gave His to us. When someone unconditionally loves the Lord and is trying to please Him with all their might, there is going to be CHANGE. This change is very important. If one professes faith and love and trust in the Lord but doesn't walk the narrow path but instead keeps walking the wide path to destructions' gates....do you think they're a "Christian"?

If I tell you that I love the Lord my God with all my heart, all my mind, and all my soul, but commit such a hypocritical atrocity as those done during the inquisition, DO YOU REALLY THINK I'M LIVING FOR THE HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS GOD OF LOVE?

Respectfully
A2D

[edit on 18-3-2010 by Agree2Disagree]

Hey! I got one!
"I have been persecuted..." I your views...." "Obviously....".... @#$% this... I'm not going to quote every person which should change their name to:
"Emotional Children".... grievances belong with your mom and/or psychiatrist....
'Conspiracy Theorists???'....
Get out yo heads.... look up the word 'awareness' and .... 'purpose' then "Please edit-down posts ... to just the important parts as it greatly improves the readability of your response."

what where we discussing again?

oh yeah, not responding to emotional comments by un-experienced thinkers...