Top home-school texts dismiss Darwin, evolution

Excellent points, 911stinks. Allow me to elaborate:

First of all, it would be impossible for anyone in the Western world to reach adulthood without a full does of neo-darwinsim, homeschooled or not! It is pervasive and, save homschooling, ubiquitous.

Secondly, the Bible is not a technical manual. I wish those spiteful persons that place the biblical creation stories against so-called "science" would bother to understand that somewhat important distinction.

Communications evolved; transportation evolved; computer languages evolve; legal systems evolve; cow breeds evolve ...

and EVERYONE OF THEM WAS EVOLVED BY THE HAND OF MAN.

Why then is it such a stretch to believe a Creator might use the exact same technique of "theme and variation" to make his little creatures?

Is it so far-fetched, to those that believe in existence via random-but-fortunate-chance, to believe a Creator might set things in motion to see how they turn out in the end.... in an almost "scientific" experiment?

Be those as they may be. The "scientific" community more than any other could stand a good dose of Christian morality. It is, based on the fraud that is AGW, perhaps more corrupt and immoral, more deceptive in its attempts at power and control even than the gullible politicians that fund Big Science.

So there's the advice: Forget constant combatation of the eternal truths of the Bible. No one gives a damn about its opinion on earthly matters anyway. The Good Book is meant to instruct you on your relations with your Maker and your fellow man. And you, Herrn Doktoren need it more than the rabble you would dismiss with arrogance.

Sign Me,
Joe of the Mountain
Holder of an advanced Ivy League science degree, a Believer in our Lord Jesus Christ, and smart enough to know the difference between the two.

Originally posted by 911stinks


Personally, I feel the child should know both, to be able to make their own decision. The study of the differences between the two would probably make an interesting subject on it's own.

The bible, to me, is a fascinating piece of history, and is full of good instruction. Teaching young ones about the differences between creationism and evolution gives the child a chance to see that there really are two completely trains of thought on how we came about.

I think good, God respecting parents are fed up with the holes in evolution, and the constant changing of science to fit with inconvenient truths, and the forcing of the religion (evolutionism) down our childrens throats.

news.yahoo. com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 7-3-2010 by joeofthemountain]

[edit on 7-3-2010 by joeofthemountain]

Spken like good little German Socialists. Why don't you review the recent German court decisions forcing homeschoolers to obey the state? You might find they are based on law promulgated and implemented by You-Know-Who, ja wohl!

Originally posted by Astyanax

Originally posted by Maslo
No, you CANNOT vote on what your child learns, unless you have a PhD in that subject. There is no place for democracy in science. Science is a dictatorship of scientists.

Do whatever you want in home, but state has a right to teach your child current scientific consensus, including evolution.

Well said, sir!

Some people seem to think their children are their property, to raise and miseducate as they please. They could not be more wrong.

Let me inform you of something: My children are my responsibility and in a sense that makes them my property. I'll be God damned if some eurotrash with an inferiority complex tries to take them from me for the good of der stadt/the Soviet. My ancestors spilled much blood for this state of affairs and I intend to continue it... over my dead body.

Originally posted by Maslo
Conclusion - Children are not the property of their parents, therefore parents have a right to teach them creationism, but have NO RIGHT to forbid them learning about evolution.

Children are also not a property of state, therefore state HAS A RIGHT to teach them evolution, and every other thing in currriculum, but has no right to forbid them learning about creationism.

Get it?

I noticed you use a phrase "own a child" often, and it is truly strange. Child is not a thing, NOONE owns it, including parents!


I will again try to explain it this way:

A parent has no right to forbid his children learn reading.
A parent has no right to forbid his children learn newtons laws of motion.
A parent ha no right to forbid his children learn evolution.

I cannot write it down more simplified....


[edit on 7-3-2010 by Maslo]

[edit on 7-3-2010 by joeofthemountain]

Originally posted by joeofthemountain
Spken like good little German Socialists. Why don't you review the recent German court decisions forcing homeschoolers to obey the state? You might find they are based on law promulgated and implemented by You-Know-Who, ja wohl!

You mean this?

www.lifesitenews.com...

I dont know any details about the case, but if the parents were trying to deny their children knowlegde about evolution and such, then the ruling was justified IMHO.

I am not a socialist, I have always voted for a right wing party.
Excluding some parts from science class because parents happen to not agree with them is not right or left, it is wrong.

reply to post by RuneSpider

I don't think either or should have full rights.

Being parents doesn't make someone the right person to raise a child, and the government is a structured system of rules and regulations, and people tend to get lost in the mix.

This particular debate is about who retains the right to educate the child as they see fit. The parents or the Government. I feel truly sorry for a society that would consent to give another exclusive jurisdiction over the education of their child. Parents may err in judgment but history has shown the dangers of allowing the state exclusive rights to education. The common citizen normally ends up as a soldier or a slave and too ignorant to avoid being one or the other.

This is why we have a society that instead of having the ability to be self sufficient is currently demanding that the Government provide more "employers" they can "work" for i.e. "jobs".

reply to post by Maslo

I dont know any details about the case, but if the parents were trying to deny their children knowlegde about evolution and such, then the ruling was justified IMHO.

Evolution is a theory just like creationism through some God is a theory. What gives you or anyone else the right to say how one's own child is educated? If I believe that the states education is damaging my child I maintain exclusive jurisdiction over my child's education.

I have been reading through this thread. Instead of posting several replies, I will post this one.

How do I prove God? - the Jew. No other people has been as hated and dispersed, yet God revived them to their land after 2,000 years and restored to them a national language.

What about extinctions. I think a lot of things couldn't survive climatic changes that happened after the flood (Yes, Noah)

Gravity isn't a theory, how it works is a theory.

Evolution of language. Computer language came from human understanding. Human language came from God. Science has no way to explain how a child learns language. (psycolinquistics)

Parents are responsible to take care of and teach their children. Biblically , they are responsible for their childrens education - not the state.

Inorganic molecular evolution requires odds that are not possible even with extended time periods. Much less evolution of entire species.

The real problem is "Who's the boss?" Creation means God has the right to tell you how to live since He made you, Evolution means man can do what ever seems right in his own eyes (to a point in a law abiding country). People who don't want anyone telling them what to do, don't like creation. Too many rules.

Man. I really love all this Christian bashing. I really don't even consider myself a Christian. I do dig what Jesus did and taught-just not what the SOB's have done to said teachings "in his name".

That being said.

You evolutionist on this thread (and Creationists in general) are so bloody egotistical.

I concede that evolution exists...you can see it in history. Thats a no brainer.

Creationism is just as legit. What created the stuff for the "big bang"? You have to push questions back a bit further for a good argument.

Apart, both ideas are stupid. I don't believe in the literal "7 days" crap. Allegory me thinks? Evolution doesn't push far enough back to a "source".

Why evolutionists and creationists think that they have the corner is just horse crap.

I will say one thing.

I'll take a home schooled kid over a public schooled kid any day. You want to talk about propaganda and revisionist history? Talk to a public kid.

Home schooled kids are given the education that was common 60 years ago....and they can actually read the books its written in. They mind better, they are more intelligent, damned sure more patriotic, and they will be more likely than not better members of society.

One of the posters mentioned that the kids had to "fear gettting their butts whipped". Let me tell ya. If more kids had their asses spanked nowadays, you wouldnt have all the little miscreants running round in gangs, doing drugs, and being just plain little punks! I am not saying abuse them. This "count to three" and "time out" garbage is just that. Garbage. Kid test their limits and crave boundaries. They are like little animals to a large extent for quite a while. I have one and have helped raise half a dozen.

This is from a 42 year old point of view....that had a few ass whippins. I learned not to do what earned a whipping quickly.

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Teaching the bible in a science class will always be wrong, sure they can learn about the bible, they just don't have to learn about it during science class.

Yes, I agree - perhaps they should have a separate class entitled 'non-scientific origin concepts' where children could learn all about the creation myths from the Mayan, Korean, Roman, Rastafarian, Egyptian, Abrahamic, Greek, Norse, Inuit, Native American, Voodoo etc.. superstitions and religions.

As for science class - until a more viable solution comes along I think its highly irresponsible not to teach children about organic evolution and natural selection.

On the subject of creationism - heres a video of what happens when religious extremists are allowed to teach their 'opinions' to young children as factual in context - its one of the most disturbing things I've seen in quite a while.




Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by Maslo

 

I dont know any details about the case, but if the parents were trying to deny their children knowlegde about evolution and such, then the ruling was justified IMHO.

Evolution is a theory just like creationism through some God is a theory. What gives you or anyone else the right to say how one's own child is educated? If I believe that the states education is damaging my child I maintain exclusive jurisdiction over my child's education.

What if I believe that newtons laws of motion are damaging my child? What if I believe that learning to read damages my child? Do I still have exclusive jurisdiction over his education? Where do we draw the line?

And there is a big difference between creationism and evolution - overwhelming majority of biologists consider evolution true. Therefore, it will be in curriculums. Therefore, your child WILL learn about it.

reply to post by felonius


Creationism is not as legit. There is no evidence for it. There is a pile for the Theory of Evolution. Loads. In fact, there is no evidence against it.

If people are to home-school their kids, and outright lie to them and corrupt their education, then that is something that is going to put that kid at a great disadvantage, without the kid's consent. It's disgusting. It's tantamount to child abuse, as it will hurt the child's future, and require years to correct.

Creationism should be taught in religious studies classes, from a neutral standpoint (i.e. "This is what Christians believe..."). They should know it, just so they know how great swathes of the world think. As a method of explaining where anything came from, or how any species was created, it's as useful as just asking the kids to come up with their own explanations - they'll be just as valid, and just as accurate.

The education that was available 60 years ago is straight-up archaic, inaccurate, and lacking about 60 years of history. Brilliant.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

So where is the observable proof that species has changed into another species? Have we ever observed that happen? No we have not. It is just a theory not a fact. So it would be taught as a theory only, not fact, and that is the way it should be taught.

Um... you're a bit behind in your reading, and you do not understand the meaning of the word, THEORY and it applies in the scientific sense. (How many times have I had to define theory for people who have the Internet right in front of them?)

Creation of New Species

"The best-documented creations of new species in the laboratory were performed in the late 1980s...."

Theory
Theory: A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

reply to post by Maslo

What if I believe that newtons laws of motion are damaging my child? What if I believe that learning to read damages my child? Do I still have exclusive jurisdiction over his education? Where do we draw the line?

Either you have jurisdiction over your child's education or the state does. It can't be both. It sounds like you believe that Newtons laws of motion and reading are important to teach your child. That is your prerogative. However I don't accept that you have the authority to demand what I teach my child. I think many people believe the public school system is damaging children.

And there is a big difference between creationism and evolution - overwhelming majority of biologists consider evolution true.

I think an overwhelming majority of priest believe that a man on a cloud created life, so your point is moot. Unless biologist are omniscient than you are being just as dogmatic in accepting one groups theory over another.

Therefore, your child WILL learn about it.

Not if I choose otherwise. It is not up for you to decide what I teach my child.


[edit on 7-3-2010 by harvib]

reply to post by davesidious

It's disgusting. It's tantamount to child abuse, as it will hurt the child's future, and require years to correct.

Oh, BS.

Seriously. I was taught evolution in public high school and we spent a whole whopping three weeks on it in Biology. Not once has that ever had any real world application unless you go into a specified field. I wasn't asked about it in job interviews. I didn't end up in therapy when I was taught creationism in private school. I don't have relationship problems due to it. I don't have financial issues because I'm skeptical towards evolution as it is taught.

Hurt the child's future? Child abuse?



It's like calculus. Sure, maybe good to know for a well rounded education but rarely of any use and it would rarely negatively impact individuals. And if you go into a specified field, then you can take some calculus courses. Or if you go into a field in biology, study evolution.

That's about it.

This really is no big deal. It's not like evolution is even a massive part of the curriculum.

God, people are ridiculous. The whole Bible VS Evolution war is idiotic. First of all, the bible was written 2000 years ago in the bronze age, when people still believed the earth was flat. secondly, evolution is pretty much a proven phenomenon. Why then, do 83% of the population opt towards the outlandishly and childish first choice?

Originally posted by Verbiage
God, people are ridiculous. The whole Bible VS Evolution war is idiotic. First of all, the bible was written 2000 years ago in the bronze age, when people still believed the earth was flat. secondly, evolution is pretty much a proven phenomenon. Why then, do 83% of the population opt towards the outlandishly and childish first choice?

Honestly, I think they think they are going to get some sort of reward in heaven for their stubborn obstinacy and refusal to accept science.
The whole argument is a moot point by people who have got something against monkeys.

These people hate nature, women and children too passionately to lighten up and accept anything but a literal translation of the many very MIXED MESSAGES put forth in the Bible. If you teach Biblical creation, how do you explain who Cain and Seth married? Where did these women come from? Or did Cain and Seth take wives of their own sisters born to Adam and Eve? They would have had to...How do you explain this to the kids?

If you get right down to it... look at the prevalence and the practice...some of these people think incest is marginally acceptable also. Because it is practiced in the Bible.

Why do you think some (not all) are keeping the kids home in the first place? No kid in public school, no inconvenient questions for the family. You don't want to believe it - but it happens.








[edit on 7-3-2010 by rusethorcain]

People who have been home schooled are ones of the most intelligent people around. I have known a few home schooled people. It tells you a lot about the public school.

Anyway, creationism should not be a part of the education. It belongs in the church.

Not teaching them about evolution is fine, but Creationism should not be a part of school text unless it's comparative religion or philosophy.

One study I head recently showed that Home School children become:
1. Better educated
2. Better learners
3. Better social skills
4. More successful
5. 0 on welfare
6. ...

It is well established the so-called education system is like everything else, fabricated to deceive, manipulate and dumb down. Do you really thing a belief or confidence scam called "Evolution" is important in any way what so ever? All advantages are with a home schooled child. An issue as small as a personal belief and some good faith teachings are certainly not where an issue is. The issue is with the corruption of public education by the Jesuits, for the Jesuit purposes.

One study I head recently showed that Home School children become:
1. Better educated
2. Better learners
3. Better social skills
4. More successful
5. 0 on welfare
6. ...

It is well established the so-called education system is like everything else, fabricated to deceive, manipulate and dumb down. Do you really thing a belief or confidence scam called "Evolution" is important in any way what so ever? All advantages are with a home schooled child. An issue as small as a personal belief and some good faith teachings are certainly not where an issue is. The issue is with the corruption of public education by the Jesuits, for the Jesuit purposes.

reply to post by ReelView


How is "evolution" a confidence scam?

What part of evolution is not fantastic enough to be God inspired?