Top home-school texts dismiss Darwin, evolution

Originally posted by davesidious
1. Do you have evidence of that?

Go on youtube, you'll find tons of people, extremist Christians who think they can convert with creationism.

Originally posted by davesidious
2. Even if that is in the curriculum, that is hardly as bad as teaching kids that the entire scientific method is wrong. A simple incorrect fact here and there can be easily fixed. Screwing up a kid's understanding of how mankind can and has learned takes years to fix.

It is not a parent's job to screw up their kids because the parent has some bat-poop crazy notion that science is bad, learned from some bat-poop crazy preacher or Fox News or otherwise.

I'm a little confused here, you seem to be on the side of science and evolution, as am i so why exactly are you going after my post?

Unless i have missed something, seriously this is an odd response.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I was referring to falsehoods in the curriculum, then proceeded to get all preachy :-P I do apologise.

I'm glad we're in the same corner

I have to say this is a great thread. It is good to see opinions from what I consider my peers. Good job all you guys.

With that said I am curious to see what a vote would be on the subject.

If you believe a parent should decide what their offspring should learn just type :

Parents.

If you believe it should be the government just type:

Government.

I have to say this is a great thread. It is good to see opinions from what I consider my peers. Good job all you guys.

With that said I am curious to see what a vote would be on the subject.

If you believe a parent should decide what their offspring should learn just type :

Parents.

If you believe it should be the government just type:

Government.



Mine would be....

PARENTS.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by Conclusion]

reply to post by 911stinks


And this why religion has not room in educational teachings in this nation, yes in the privacy of the home parents can supplement education with religion at their leisure, but when in America our own educational system and literature are been sabotage by religious rights we most wonder why our educational system has gone down the crap and now we rank in the lowest in education when compare to other developed nations and developing nations in the world.

Yes Americas children are getting dumber no smarter.

The irony.

Originally posted by Astyanax

1. it deprives children of their right to an education and social life free of the overwhelming and often oppressive influence of their parents, and
   
   
2. it perpetuates antisocial attitudes and breeds social misfits.

Even so, the comparison of home-schooled American children's results with those of their school-educated compatriots is misleading. You should compare them with the educational outcomes of children in countries that have more effective education policies. America's school system is, for a country so advanced and powerful (and one which spends so much per child on its schools) a disgrace.

Hmmm, are you suggesting that homeschooling creates an oppressive environment, or maybe at least in the families that are religious? Since we want to over generalize than can we say that families that rely on the state to educate/raise their children are dysfunctional? Homeschooling takes about three hours per day, and public schools are just as much a daycare center as they are a place of learning, oh and the learning is scaled down to the lowest common denominator, so it is not like these homeschooled kids are forced to stay in their dungeon like home. I would bet money they are involved in more activities than your typical public school child is.

I’m not defending homeschooling as much as I am surprise that people feel public schools are somehow much better.

As you will see from the sources I've chosen to quote, I am certainly not against parental choice in education. I am, however, convinced that home-schooling should not be one of those choices.

Do parents really have a choice? You have private, public and home as your three choices. Private is costly so the vast majority have just the two.

I should add, in fairness, that higher education in America, which is governed by different authorities, is brilliant. You have easily the world's best universities, especially when it comes to scientific and technological subjects.

It all equals out in the end, so I think the homeschool childern will do just fine in college, and more of them go percentage wise.


[edit on 8-3-2010 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Conclusion
If you believe a parent should decide what their offspring should learn just type: Parents.
If you believe it should be the government just type:Government.

It's not an either/or choice.

When the topic is science, like evolution, scientists determine what the conclusions are most supported by evidence, and when the government mandates science education, the subjects of science should be taught based on the scientific evidence, analysis, and conclusions. When a significant percentage of scientists can't agree on a hotly debated topic, both points of view should be presented. However I would argue that this is NOT the case for evolution, as the number of scientists who think evolution didn't happen is statistically insignificant. The scientific debates in evolution are about exact mechanisms by which it occurred, but not about whether it occurred, that is accepted and not debated in the scientific community.

When it comes to spiritual beliefs, morals, ethics etc., it's the parent's job to teach that at home (and/or by bringing the child to church). I don't think the public schools or even the university undergraduate program taught me too much formally about morals or ethics, and I didn't get a course in ethics until I entered a graduate (masters) program, so if that's not taught at home, we'd have a problem.

So, the government decides on some things, and the parent decides on other things.

However some people have lamented what seems to be declining morals and ethics, so if that's not taught at home and not taught in school, maybe that's slipping through the cracks for some kids.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by Arbitrageur]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by 911stinks

 

And this why religion has not room in educational teachings in this nation, yes in the privacy of the home parents can supplement education with religion at their leisure, but when in America our own educational system and literature are been sabotage by religious rights we most wonder why our educational system has gone down the crap and now we rank in the lowest in education when compare to other developed nations and developing nations in the world.

Yes Americas children are getting dumber no smarter.

The irony.

Marge do realize what you are saying here?
If the quality of the educational process has and is headed towards the toilet. It is only since the forced entry into that system of evolution.
Not the opposite like you make it seem.

I am not against science and I am not all that interested in organized religion.
What concerns me in these controversies is the Communist type approach to destroy belief systems and replace them with King worship ideals.You know "The Man not the deity.
It is exactly what they did in Russia when the Commies stripped the people of their right to worship.
If someone wants to replace a void in their life with a Lenin that's fine with me. Just leave the others alone.
Don't PREACH that crap to my children.

reply to post by Donny 4 million


I'm really curious... What schools have you attended? Where does this knowledge come from?

Is your position really that the reason for the deificiencies of the US educational system stem from the introduction of evolutionary theory into biology classes?

So you're saying american schools were comparatively better at the beginning of the century? Are you saying that the quality of US education as a whole has been declining since the 1920's?

I haven't been to school in the US for more than 10 years. While I prefer the other school systems I've encountered, they taught evolution too, as does every school on the planet that deserves to be called a school.

---

Also, what irks me in this thread is the agreement upon the fact that american education sucks per se. It doesn't. What country has the most universities listed in the international top 200 list? It's the US. US universities are still the leaders speaking in broad brushes. There's tons of succesfull public and private schools in the US - granted, you do need the right kind of cash to enjoy them but really the picture is not as gloomfull as many of you picture it. It may hold true for certain parts of public schools, but certainly not for colleges and universities. If you disregard the cost factor, they are simply still the best even though they have been neglected if you take international stndars as a comparison.

You guys act as if anyone who ever came into contact with an american college is somehow a moron. We have some Americans at the university where I teach and honestly I can't say that they strike me as particularly dumb compared to say the Chinese who study here. But they sure do take different classes, LOL!

Edit: Further praise for American Education: Two of the most interesting courses I ever took while in school were by eminent americans, educated and promovated in the US, who were practically begged to come over for a teaching gig. If american education was unformly in such a bad state, there's no reason they would ever have been hired as there would have been ample supply of native applicants. So not everything can be that wrong - speaking of college level education now, disregarding the cost factor.


[edit on 8-3-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

reply to post by Donny 4 million


No really, when I grew up it was during the 70s, religious right were trying to push "religion and bibles as usual but were not so much a "pushing", my education was "diverse" no concentrated like now, in our educational system, the books in my time came from Spain not some "Texas" couple dictating what could be into the text books or not.

Actually I have seen the deterioration of the educational system through the years after I became a Teacher (Spanish) in the US.

I grew up in a very Catholic dominated environment, still even among the "religious" innuendos they didn't sabotage the text books and the curriculum until later on, I had evolution as part of science class in middle schoolafter a lengthy "sermon of why it didn't fit within religious believes".

Still the education in the US and in my Island was still on the top and we ranked among the top education system in the world.

Now in the last 30 years the US education has gone down the crapper.

Wonder why? after all it was on the top during my time even with evolution in full force and in the classroom.

reply to post by Donny 4 million


It's not a "Communist type approach to destroy belief systems", but a recognition that for a country to have standing in the world, to function, to be able to compete on the world stage, it needs an intelligent, educated, literate population. It's vitally important that children be given the best education possible. Without it, we'd just be back in the dark ages, where science was eschewed for religious study.

There is nothing communist about ensuring the country's future. It seems many parents are incapable of it, and don't see what's wrong in having their kids' education stilted by ignoring fact and promoting faith.

Keep the religion at home, preferably between the believer and their god(s).

Originally posted by Deaf Alien

Evolution is a theory! Religious people keep on harping that evolution is "only" a theory.

It is a theory! Just like gravity theory, electronics theory, and just about anything else in science.

A theory is created to fit the observations in nature.

Science does not concern itself with spirituality.

I think it is called the Law of Gravity, and are you talking about Ohm’s law, Gauss’ law, Coulomb’s law..a few other…? There is a difference between theory and law, Evolution is a theory and gravity is a law. You didn’t go to a public school did you?

The theory of evolution is also very interesting. Did you know that the theory was voted on by the majority of the scientific community and it won over other theories by a very slim margin, and when you look at it Darwin invested only five years traveling and working on that theory. Because of all this I think all of us can see it is not a law and there still much more to discover about evolution and man’s history.


[edit on 8-3-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


Address the Communism please.
Then we can talk electives and how you can just pay for a Harvard education ( more like your dad) and pass because the professors don't even care if you cheat.

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


Actually we are talking about Public education, Colleges and Universities are different

The government and many religious group control the Public education in the US.

No wonder students have to pass test before joining a good college in the US as the public education is usually lacking

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development places the United States 18th among the 36,

The United States is no longer the world leader in secondary education, according to the rankings of an international organization.

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development places the United States 18th among the 36 nations examined,

Headed to the top of the heap is South Korea where 93 percent of high school students graduate on time compared with the United States where 75 percent receive their diplomas.

www.upi.com...

And this was done in 2008, I guess is such an embarrassment that statistics has been put in hold.

When it comes to science it gets worst

Fifteen-year-old students from the United States rank 25th out of 30 advanced nations in math and 24th in science, according to The Program for International Student Assessment (PISA).

www.examiner.com...

The irony this study was done in 2007 so we have another gap right now of how bad the education system has gone with so much cuts by the government.

reply to post by marg6043


Well think about it .
I think you are very sincere and interested in this topic.
But you can't have both ways.
In the fifties we prayed for the G. I.'s in Korea and our country men and women every morning before the academics. And Americans had the best educations on the planet back then.
Now the kids first lesson of the day is seeing if they can get a sock on a banana with nothing to show for it.

reply to post by AshleyD

It has nothing to do with 'do what you will, just keep it away from us' and more to do with 'Egads! You must do what we say or else something is wrong with you.'

I've found you a fairly honest debater Ashley, so I'll ask you to remain so in answering this question:
If I were to deify Trotsky & set up my church in your neighbourhood; gain traction enough to influence your local politics & all the while pay no taxes, but rather avail my church of the various tax-funded grants from the state for community support, would you still claim that my activities should be ignored by the populace at large?
Perhaps you would, but I suspect that your choice would also extend to ignoring the violence I would be subjected to in your community.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by NichirasuKenshin

 

Address the Communism please.
Then we can talk electives and how you can just pay for a Harvard education ( more like your dad) and pass because the professors don't even care if you cheat.

To have evolution taught in biology classes has nothing to do with Communism, as any and every state has taught it since the 20th century.
Communism and evolutionism aren't interchangeable, allthough I'll grant that in communist countries religious zealots were so marginalized and repressed that they didn't get to protest what was taught in schools. Still the Orthodox church managed to condemn the teaching of it though :-)

I really fail to see a connection. Most of the religious people I know personally do believe in evolution and don't see a problem with it.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

reply to post by marg6043


Hey, you're right - and I'm the last on to deny that they're interferring with the education in public schools. but they are not the sole reason for schools failing - I know you didn't claim that.

And of course you have a point with your links. All I'm saying is that some american public schools - located in the right neighborhood - are fine and first rate when you disregard the fact that they only serve priviliged classes.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

It's not a "Communist type approach to destroy belief systems", but a recognition that for a country to have standing in the world, to function, to be able to compete on the world stage, it needs an intelligent, educated, literate population. It's vitally important that children be given the best education possible. Without it, we'd just be back in the dark ages, where science was eschewed for religious study.

There is nothing communist about ensuring the country's future. It seems many parents are incapable of it, and don't see what's wrong in having their kids' education stilted by ignoring fact and promoting faith.

Keep the religion at home, preferably between the believer and their god(s).

This is totally because the government has taken the kids in a communist way from out of the control of the parents. Like Um let's sing the praises of our leader in class instead of saying one nation under god.
US public education in is an industry of indoctrination not education.
The social ser vises are an industry devoted to separate American men women and children from one another and promote socialism. Much like Nazi Germany.
Besides science who or what do you worship Davey?
Do you worship guys like Lenin? Darwin? keep your religon out of the schools I pay for.
Set up your commie temple in your house and invite the neighbors.