An appeal from a cop...

How do you explain the misconduct at the Pittsburgh G20? Or was that just business as usual? looked to me like about 200 some odd officers following whatever order was handed down - how do you get "us" to sympathize with that?

Just google Pittsburgh G20 an watch the 30 or so videos of the people getting pushed around by what looked like soldiers of the new third reich. Tell me how do we erase those images from our minds and consider how unfair our outlook is on Law Enforcement (and by the way) calling you Law Enforcement is a direct insult because you are in no way to be considered "Peace officers" you will have to earn that status.

And I don't want to hear isolated incident. This isolated incident included 200 some odd officers.

After the Republic National Convention police cop riot there was an excellent radio series on "Cop Culture" -- descriptions for the three podcasts -- June-July 2009:


Oops this link will work for the podcast.

truthtotell.mypodcast.com...

truthtotell.mypodcast.com...

[edit on 4-3-2010 by drew hempel]

[edit on 4-3-2010 by drew hempel]

...the irrational mob mentality shown on this thread is exactly why i'm opposed to militia groups and others who want a violent revolution... you are not helping to improve our country - quite the contrary...

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


What country are you talking about?

Excellent post OP, well said.

I'm going to skip trying to argue with those who hate all LEOs because they've had bad experiences with them, or because their friends/family have. I will acknowledge that there are good cops, and bad cops. Just as there are good and bad lawyers, teachers, doctors, managers, soldiers, engineers, etc. It's stupid to judge a group as a whole, so don't. If you do, you're no better than a racist.

I did like a comment that I read earlier, however, I forget who posted it.

It went somewhere along the lines of talking about how LE jobs attract two types of individuals. Ones who have a strong desire to help society, and do what is just and protect what is precious; and ones who have the hunger for power and feel the need to be in control, for whatever reason.

My mother is a chief public defender in the state where I grew up in, and her and many police chiefs around the state get together regularly to discuss problems in the police departments. These problems range from prejudices against minorities, ageism, racism, etc. And let me tell you, they are making gigantic steps to try and stop these sorts of things from happening. For instance, starting next year, when an officer (state, county, local) makes a traffic stop, they are required to record the race of the individual in their report. As you can already imagine, that's going to make a lot of officers think twice before they pester a minority of any type unlawfully. Departments are also making a huge effort to hire more minorities in the department, to indirectly suppress some prejudice attitudes in the depts. They are also making huge adjustments in their hiring processes. For my hometowns police department, potential officers are required to go through extensive background checks, and now, are required to take a battery of psychological examinations which are designed to explicitly determine whether someone is power hungry, racist, prejudice, etc. This will soon be the norm for the entire state.

I write this post so I can let you all know that I acknowledge problems with LEOs, and so do big "players" in my home state. And I must say I'm very proud of them for taking the steps they are, to at least try and fix the issues at hand.

Thanks for reading

I have been enjoying this thread, it has approached so many areas in this debate that are usually only answered with ingnorance and stupidity, (ie. Kill all cops, all cops are bad...).

I have also noticed that the OP, while being a very educated and eloquent person, also makes statements and writes words that show the obvious disparity between the LEO's and common CITIZENS, not SUBJECTS or GENERAL PUBLIC. It is more and more apparent that these tendacies,(being nice there) and/or rationalizations, are really indoctrinated into prespective LEO's in the first stages of their training. And as also evidenced in the MSM and judicial systems, are further encouraged to support this clearly counter productive sort of; US VS. THEM mindset.

I have alluded to some simple core changes that could help to remedy this situation here several times on ATS in the past.

(Disclaimer: The following are only Core concepts and ideas that need further debate to flesh out the details.)

1. All public servents are only to be conscripted for a period not exceeding 4 years. ALL (including politicians at every level. LEO's at every level. Civil servents at every level)
   
2. All 700,000 or more STATUTES to be immedietly declared unconstitutional and removed from active enforcement.
   
3. Citizen panels will also only be allowed to serve for no more then 4 years. Citizen panels will replace the Commerce Based Judicial system, with Common Law Citizen Panels drafted from real peers.
   
4. All Laws not supporting and/or following the original Constitution will be ruled as such and abolished.
   

These are some simple things that would, in my opinion, get us really going in the right direction. As disclaimed these are just core concepts that should be debated constructively in their entirety for the good of all mankind.

Again I feel myself the the destruction of "community", since the 70's is the biggest problem we face currently. It allows TPTB to divide us and explain us away as helpless lunatics and heathens who need to be taken care of. GARBAGE, this sort of benevolent authority is abhorrent in any sort of context to free thinking individuals.

Common Law is the answer, it covers everything that needs to be covered in respect to governing of the people. As mentioned often within this thread, If an individual and/or natural person is not violating the rights and liberties of any other individuals and/or natural persons, he is not to be interfered with or touched, for no reason whatsoever.

Being a civil servent, LEO, politician is a responsibility and not a right or privilege. If everyone had to serve his time as a public servent, they would all have a better appreciation for each other and the activites involved. It also goes without saying that it would do away with the career politicians, LEO's and civil servents who obviously mandate rules and regulations that keep them snugg and comfortable in thier elite positions.

Community is in my opinion the KEY!

[edit on 4-3-2010 by rougeskut]

truthtotell.mypodcast.com...

TruthToTell examines the dark and isolated world of local police culture and the nature of law enforcement in general. • Why has this paramilitary subset of civil society grown so insular, more secretive and more rageful and violent? • How can we address the increasing federal conscription of local law enforcement agencies to violently put down legitimate political dissent – while stoking the deepening paranoia over those who disagree with increasingly rightwing and racist policing? • Why are we seeing more and more deception in police reports, shredding of documents, disappearing evidence and confiscated money? • Why can’t we convict renegade cops and redress their abuses? • Is there or has there ever been a bright line between some officers and the alleged offenders they arrest and charge? • Where is accountability in law enforcement? • Is it recoverable? • Cops don’t live in the places they patrol anymore. What role has that played in the dissociation between police and the people they ”protect?"

I have great respect for law enforcement officers. The uniform means discipline, training and purpose.
My only problem is with some of the laws and codes they are tasked with enforcing. That is not their fault but the fault of the politicians who create bad laws to make themselves look good. The war on drugs is another sad case where MEDICAL ISSUES have become LAW ENFORCEMENT ISSUES.
Riot police are a true problem IMO, they use excessive force and coercement (pepper spray, LRADS) in the unlawful act of breaking up peaceful assemblies (minneapolis, pittsburgh, Seattle, etc).
If they would stop using the Police as street enforcers it would help their image and community standing.
LEO's have difficult and demanding jobs but suppressing the lawful rights of the citizens should never be a part of it.
I commend you for your service sir.
Respects, ATA

What would be even better than the general public trusting law enforcement officers, would be an overabundance of trustworthy law enforcement officers.

I understand the thread though, and why you felt the need to post it. Unfortunately for a lot of people there is not much difference between hearing "he's a good cop", and "he's a good nazi."

It's bull that so much of law enforcement has become purely profit-driven - if arresting and incarcerating people is going to be run like a mega-corporation, then let's at least make it competitive. Why not have new law enforcement agencies, with the same powers?

Then how they treat the people determines who gets the money and control!!

Nice post, well said....I too am in the law enforcement community and it is amazing how we have lost our first ammendment rights and are constantly being watched and judged on every action we make.....we are the ones being watched lol!

I have a problem with cops who protect criminals in their ranks. I have a problem when a BART police officer shoots a helpless man in the back. But I feel a little better when an officer such as yourself speaks out. It reminds me that not all of you are dicks, but it sometimes seems as though you are the exception not the rule. For the record, I have many friends in Law Enforcement positions. I have friends in high public office in my state and city. Not everyone in government or LE is corrupt, I understand this. But the ones that do their jobs, and do them well, tend to be marginalized by what seems to be a majority of corrupt, morally bankrupt individuals.

I can be pretty harsh on LEOs, and I have to check myself sometimes because I know that not all of you guys are the fascist authoritarians I see on a regular basis. It's hard for me to seperate what I perceive as rampant corruption with the parts that are good, because SO much damage is caused with the smallest of incidents.




Thanks for posting this.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by projectvxn]

[edit on 4-3-2010 by projectvxn]

reply to post by maus80


Protests are very lucrative for the cops -- but let's not forget Blackwater:

www.counterpunch.org...

Within days of their guys deploying down there, Blackwater was handed a very lucrative $409,000 contract--literally to guard a morgue in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Fourteen guys, four vehicles, for 22 days--and they were paid $409,000. That contract, which was not open to public bids, was awarded to Blackwater, and it would kick off a contract spree that in just four months would amount to over $30 million for Blackwater. They were billing the federal government some $950 per day per man in the hurricane zone. I had Blackwater men who told me that they were getting paid $350 a day, plus a modest per diem. So that's $600 that Blackwater had to play with, above what they were paying their guys.

reply to post by JWH44


So this is a thead created by Police To see how many people on ATS HATE the Police about 160 so far thanks for given your name and Address expect a Chap at your DOOR. knock knock.

wake up people.

think about this sir, The ones that portray all cops to be this monster that runs around are some of the most ignorant people around....

I have had my run ins with LE and I can tell you I have had a couple that were butt heads but for the most part those others then and even now are some of the most professional people I have ever known...

On a business level I now deal with federal all of the time as well as local and all 50 states... I have yet to meet one person that was a total professional all the time, but when it is duty time they are right there doing what they do best.... their jobs.

So do not the words of a few idiots that obviously have something to fear from the cops taint your opinions of all of us..... Most (myself anyways) would seriously love to take a few of those idiots out and show thme first hand what all the people in LE deal with... but those that cry the most are the ones that are either a fool or a felon or someone that refuses to take responsibility for their own actions... you know the type, always blame someone else when you screw up... or they are the types that have something to hide... either way, don't worry about it much...

because one hell of alot of us actually know better. You keep up the good work and to hell with the mental midgets out here as well as those that are nothing short of a cave man mentality...

BTW... one of the best posts I have seen in awhile...take care brother

Well,much of what you say is true. I certainly wouldn't want to be a police officer. For one, I don't have the patience to deal with people who aren't on the same plane of awareness as I am.

However, with that being said. There is something that needs to be realized. The penal system needs a complete overhaul. Let me ask you a question. How is writing a 65 dollar "hot" check equivalent to spending six months to a year in jail? Where is the balance there? Plus we are not even going to mention the fines, depending on whether it is a class A or B misdeamenor.

You see, the contempt for law enforcement is multifaceted. You cannot paint this picture that it boils down to people "hating" the police only.It has much deeper roots than what you suppose.

Until there is some legitimate reform in the legal system and the way they handle situations, the trend that has you filled with "trepidation" is likely to continue.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

Thanks for your service, I have got your back exactly as long as you have mine.

Thats' a good one! I concur. I have been falsly accused and even assaulted by cops and deputies, so now, I KNOW there is no help coming. I am on my own. If'n someone comes on the ranch here and tries to deprive me of anything, well, I am going to try to make sure that they vanish. And it is not just the cops, it is lawyers and judges, as well.

reply to post by ufosbri


The whole point is you dont even need to give them a reason. Alls it takes is to be in the wrong place at the wrong time sometimes. I would rather speak out about injustice than hide in the shadows. better to live on your feet than to die on your knees

Originally posted by Cosmiccop
Nice post, well said....I too am in the law enforcement community and it is amazing how we have lost our first ammendment rights and are constantly being watched and judged on every action we make.....we are the ones being watched lol!

And why is that?

You think people like it that we can't trust Cops?

You think we like fearing Cops more than Respecting them?

Get a clue.

As a profession you have Failed.

You asked who would protect everyone from evil, if leo's weren't there to do it.


They are FAILING at their jobs. Completely failing.

The amount of trivial, ignorant, useless, stricty-for-profit actions taken by police against citizens increases every year, serving the purposes of consolidating money and power, creating subservient jobs that implement absolute technologies to increasingly reduce the privacy, freedoms, and opportunities of citizens.

Meanwhile they are constantly fighting underground and black market groups that either shouldn't exist by default, or shouldn't be allowed to exist.

The fights that are not already won are not meant to be. They are profitable, and many lives, freedoms, and opportunities are traded for their continuation and expansion.

It's all bull, and everyone involved is insane. The insanity runs deep, and swept up in it are the truly evil bad guys, who get more and more rights and opportunities by the day.

We don't need cops, we need freakin Superman!

Originally posted by JWH44


I don’t think that anyone, be it a civilian or member of the law enforcement community,

Well, you had me up to that point. YOU ARE A CIVILIAN. You are not military, you are a civilian. Law enforcement are all civilians. Your us/them mentality is part of the problem, not part of the solution.