An appeal from a cop...

reply to post by JWH44


It's funny, here in Ireland (I'm a US expat that's dealt with US law enforcement, for the record) I know several cops (known as gardai) and they all say the same thing:

We do NOT want guns.


That's an easy way of saying that they don't want to be the aggressor.

In Ireland as well as many European countries the vast majority of cops are still on the streets involved directly with the community. People are NOT scared of the police here and really it makes for a much calmer environment.

Just my 2 cents.

To show us a video of a cop actually having to work for his cheque is a farce.
want to see justice? heres justice.





[edit on 4-3-2010 by colt122]

Originally posted by Toecutter.
When I see or hear of a policeman arrest another policeman for breaking the law I will be convinced.

Are police supposed to arrest a fellow officer if they break the law?

Because I have no doubt that police break the law with other police present, if a police officer witnesses a crime committed by another police officer then does nothing then he is complicit by association. These are the rules get used to it.

If a police officer witnesses a crime and does not attempt to bring the perpetrator to justice then he should hand in his badge or face the consequences when they come.

May common sense reign.

Please go back and read all my posts.

And I think part of the problem is the people. The people downtown and who get arrested are mostly [snip] idiots. Think about it, the stupider and more of a jerk...you can even tell just by the way somebody dresses if they have had a run in with the cops. If society were more intellectual there would be less need for policemen. But honestly, people are more interested in drugs than books in so many parts of this world. Next generations are getting stupider and so are the police. People are starting to realize this is your only life to live. And that comes with the loss of religious belief (because there is no afterlife) I mean, you can ask anyone around 20 if they believe in God and most of them are gonna laugh at you. So the loss of religion demoralized society but also allows us to advance in technology. But it is what we do with this technology that matters. So there has to be law. But if those who enforce law are demoralized then there will be no benevolent law enforced. It's a vicious circle. Maybe policemen should be robots with lasers? Haha

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Paradox.]



Profanity removed

[edit on 4/3/10 by masqua]

reply to post by JWH44


I would rather be confronted by Thugs , than by Cops.

At least I could fight back against the Thugs.

I've seen innocent guys get beaten by Cops for no reason.

The Cops had came to the bar , as two rowdyies were leaving. They were out

the door, and on their way. The Cops stopped them and were talking to them,

when 1 Cop pulled out his night stick and started wailing on the guys head.

As soon as the other cop saw that , He did the same to the other guy.

The drunk guys didn't raise fight back , or resist, they were on the ground after a few whacks to the head.

Another Cop pulls up and throws them in separate cop cars.

Those guys were going to Cherry Beach for sure.

A place famous in Toronto for Cops to teach people respect.

reply to post by Romans 10:9


since you're stating that almost every police officer that you've come across is an a hole, one might think "maybe the police are not the problem."

reply to post by JWH44


JW
Have you talked to SEMPER FORTIS yet?
He has a great thread going on here at ATS. He's a cop too and gets along fairly well here. He's also a mod.

the main problem is that its a job.

and to evaluate it there has to be something on paper. which means crimes HAVE to be committed to keep the pay flowing.

in a copless society communities would HAVE to work together to get to the root of problems to prevent crime.

Police have no incentive to really truely prevent crime as a whole. just specific instances.

Originally posted by Armour For Victor
reply to post by JWH44

 

Thats the thing, you want us to help you out with your job. Stop asking us to fill out paper work that may give you leads on criminal activity.
Why not give us paper work to fill out that explains how you can better your police force. Maybe we can make a list of what is wrong with the force, the system and the people who work for it.
I thought you guys are suppose to protect and to serve the people while upholding the law?
Why do you ask us to help the police in finding criminals?

Peace!

I hear you, but understand that we realize it serves to gather intel as well as to encourage the agents to make contact with the community and be available to answer their questions about our goals and mission. These encounters are two way; the agents open the door to their concerns as well. Keep in mind, we are federal and we don't have the kind of daily contact with the public that a street cop does. Some people simply don't know what it is that we do. We try to bridge that gap.

The only way to counteract ill-conceived (negative) action is by paying back a thousandfold with well-conceived (positive) action. Actions have always spoken volumes more than words, and all one has to do to affect his immediate vicinity is lead by example, as most people are susceptible to the power of suggestion.

I'm certainly sorry that this is the way it is, yet somehow I'm sure you know it better than most.

People just don't notice goodness without it overflowing upon them, yet they seem to notice bad in people inside the fraction of a blink it takes to happen. And, unfortunately, it happens to all of us at one time or another - as well as because of.

I would think we're all just people trying to get along for the most part, while getting better and better at dodging and weaving the "bad apples".

I've been fortunate enough to have met probably more people than most, and I don't think it's wise to cluster people up and stereotype all members of any one group because of something a small percentage have done. In fact, I think one (no trajectory) would have to be so narrow-minded as to have the ability to look through a keyhole with both eyes for that.

I respect EVERYONE...until they give me a reason not to, because that's how I want to be treated.

Count me as one who is glad the police are out there doing the job. I've met a number over the years, a couple of times as I was being arrested. Only once in my 54 years have I had a negative experience with a police officer, and to be honest, I was being a smart-ass with him, so I probably deserved his rancour.

My most recent experience was a County Sheriff's Deputy who had picked up my son for something. He came to the house and was courteous and concerned for my son. His demeanor made the whole experience much more tolerable than it might have been, and has since written a letter of recommendation for the boy - my son has turned things around.

I live in the Pacific NW and we have recently had a series of shootings. Four police officers were gunned down in a coffee shop here a couple of months ago. I expected and have seen that officers in public areas sometimes appear a little more observent than before, maybe a little apprehensive - I'm not sure, but if so, who could blame them?

reply to post by randyvs


I haven't had the pleasure. Thanks for pointing me that way.

Only an angry and very minor number of people will take an extremeist position and declare ALL cops this or that....of course it makes no sense to lump all together.

BUT, it is an undeniable fact that a MAJORITY of the police today have and will violate the law and regulations and consider it necessary because of the limitations of the system, as they see it. We see it as legal protection . Police perjury is rampant and obvious. judges know that these highly improbable, and oft repeated, stories that just give enough to justify a conviction...If the cops word is accepted as gold.

MOST cops will harrass, intimidate or lie to get consent to search when they have a ' hunch' but lack any real probable cause. Finding technical ways to get around the plain meaning of the law is standard OP for cops.

MOST cop will ignore, deny or coverup actions by fellow cops, sometimes even when those actions are deadly or horrific ( see Abner Louima trial )..and MOST cops will contravene the law by arresting for generic violations, such as ' disorderly conduct', whcih when dismissed later means that the accused still had to go thru the system and the cost and grief, which the cop sees as at least some punishment even thogh it is extra-legal...and that is disturbing.

If only 10% of all cops did these things, it could be dealt with...but when 905 do it, then that sounds an alarm to anyone with any sense. it becomes institutionalized and accepted and taught...and we suffer the consequences of a loss of the rights we should enjoy.

So, the 90% that are not BAD cops ( at least according to other cops) use extra-legal means to work the system so someone they wish to target does not escape totally, even if not in the courtroom. 90% WILL lie on the stand about details so a case is not tossed on a ' technicality ' ( meaning based on the rule of law!) , and 90% WILL pressure citizens to give up their precious Constitutional Rights so the cops can conduct a search, no matter that they have no articulable reason to do so...and that means that the majority of cops are not operating within the law.

Having said this, most cops will not go too far and committ the horrible acts that a few have been convicted for, we all agree that it is rare for a cop to murder or molest a suspect...but until the cops are totally professional and are UNwilling to bend the rules and the system, even a little, to get it done, they cannot be trusted. plain and simple anyone that does not invoke their rights and wait for a lawyer is a fool.

But again, no reasonable person can paint ALL cops as really bad...the ones that are go far beyond the normal subversions of the law that are routine. What a testimony for a ' profession'..sad.

here in Poland there is some sick system of "more you catch the more you will get on your paycheck"

you can imagine what kinds of behavior such policy can do.

reply to post by JWH44


If you want to know why people make such disparaging remarks about law enforcement, just ask someone on the street.

Police are a MENACE, often causing more pain than helping. Yes they occasionally solve a murder...but they ruin lives daily.

I can honestly say than 99% of my dealings with law enforcement were utterly terrifying. and I am NOT a criminal NOR have I ever been arrested.

I hate cops, so here is a plea TO a cop. Turn in your badge and get over your superiority complex.

Ladies, Gentlemen,

I hope you don't think I'm bailing out on this topic I started, but I have to go do my job. I appreciate EVERY contribution.

Originally posted by JWH44
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Ah, my old nemesis... Good to see you again. I was hoping you would stop by.

Despite your repeated suggestions, I refuse to give up and walk away. Call me an idealist, but do you really want me to leave this life? I take pride in the fact that I try to bring sense and sensibility to the arena of my career.

Our agency holds those that have knowledge of wrong-doing and do not report it as accountable as those that perform the misconduct. This relentless practice has made it very unattractive to cover for those that don't have the common sense to obey the law. I usually, when we take someone down for misconduct, several of his peers take the fall along side him. Not because they participated directly in the act, but because they displayed a lack of candor by not disclosing information about the misconduct.

These are small steps and we are years behind where we need to be in weeding out corruption. But I think that anyone with a pair of eyes and a fair grasp of history can see that misconduct and abuse of power is more harshly dealt with now than in our nations history. We are not there yet; but we are making progress.

By and large, I am not a supporter of the police or modern policing but it is encouraging that there are 'white hats' within the police, doing what they can from the inside, to reduce harm.



However, your comment in a previous post re 'community management' suggests to me that you are subject to police training methods that have prepared you to accept that total community control is necessary. In my opinion, most peaceful communities are self regulating, law abiding and do not need the police!

Surely, community management by LEA's is only possible within a police state?

Would you say America is a police state?

see i told you.


job.

I would add that MOST people don't have positive experiences with police in the States.

I never had a problem here.... in the UK the cops can be ... a mixed bag... bug generally not as aggressive or crooked as US cops.

If the shoe fits ...

Maybe in this case, the shoe doesn't, but in my experience that's the exception ...
not the rule.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by tyranny22]