Tithing..... And the scum that rob God...

reply to post by Yissachar1


I absolutely agree. I find myself fortunate to be serving at the church I am at. Our church just started a "Garden Ministry" on their property where any member of the church can come and work a plot of the land (They have a bunch). The goal is for people to be able to provide some fod for themselves but also for a percentage of what is grown to go directly to providing for the poor in the church or to go to the local food pantry.

The times are upon us, and they are exciting times! The church will be persecuted and as painful as it will be to watch those we love suffer, it will refine the church and she will be as strong as she was at her conception. Our current condition has made it too easy to be lukewarm "pew-sitters".

My intentions are to minister now while the church can support me, and continue to do so when they cannot. I do not know exactly how I will be sustained, but I know that God is Good.

That said, I fear I may be getting a little off topic. Since I have already specified pretty well what I think about the issue, Ill probably refrain from posting more unless I'm asked something. I'll keep checking the thread though. Nice talking with you all! God Bless.

-Mykahel

Originally posted by Komodo

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Komodo

 

It's not a matter of needing to fellowship....it's a vital to the body of Christ!

This would imply that your god is lacking something and not omnipotent, it implies that should you not do this that your god would not exist and is therefore the construct of the human mind.

ahh.. well.. I can see you are in sever lack of understanding of the subject at hand .. trying to derail this thread isn't going to work either..

stay on the subject.. thx

Accusing me of trying to derail the thread is a piss poor (but predictable) ducking of a point.

You introduce into the topic of tithing some vague intangible concept of an invisible mans body and somehow something being vital to it.

If you sir don't know something or don't understand something have the balls to admit it. Please bear in mind the thread is on ATS not an evangelical christian thumb sucking web site and you may run the risk of your invisible gods being questioned. .

Something that bothers me is when pastors are encouraging people to give so that they can receive something back in return so for example because I give (or sow as they say) $20.00 I must expect to receive money, blessings (harvest)... And the more I give is the more I should get. Where is the real sacrifice and humility in that?

reply to post by climb


There isn't ..... Its just a mechanism to con vulnerable people out of money.. In my opinion these people are criminal and should be prosecuted.. I think that would curtail their activities!

Watch TBN and Daystar on a "missions week" and you will see people like jane crouch who looks like she not only has a pink poodle weaved into her hair, but a whole walk in wardobe of them in diffenet colours depending on the outfit she wears.. Begging for money saying "God has just told me (yeah right) that there is a business man out there in trouble, and if he 'sows a seed' of $10000 then his business will pick up again" or that old chestnut of Malachi 3 where it states;
"Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty. 12 "Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land," says the LORD Almighty.

So give me your money and you will be blessed... What a load of BS!! Why dont THEY give US Their money then? Because im sure that the principle should work both ways no??

In the end of the day the tithe was supposed to be food to be put in the storehouse FOR THE POOR... Not so that some slick haired con man can have a new jet...

reply to post by Yissachar1


A hard world is one thing. I have gone thru hard times again and again. Having someone who tells you how 'hard' it is while NOT having a hard life at *all*? It's like having a slap in the face and a kick in the dangling participles.



[edit on 2-3-2010 by wylekat]

reply to post by Yissachar1

There isn't ..... Its just a mechanism to con vulnerable people out of money.. In my opinion these people are criminal and should be prosecuted.. I think that would curtail their activities!

Would be difficult to bring that about when they line the pockets of politicians etc

reply to post by moocowman


Well maybe someone should start a civil action.. With enough popular support, especially from Christians as you can see on this thread, then a bill would be passed quite easily... The only problem is that the money not only comes from the same country but from people all over the world which makes it a lot harder to track... Something needs to be done though.. Whether you believe in God shouldnt matter.. Real people are being conned and real problems are being caused by them.. Gonna post some really bad case studies later then you will see where Im coming from..

It brings the WHOLE church into disrepute and its message gets lost in the justifiable flack that comes from their actions...

It REALLY pisses me off!

reply to post by wylekat


I know where you are coming from... There is nothing worse than when you are going through the worst crap in your life and some prick tells you to "count it all joy".... A punch in the mouth is probably the correct response..

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by wylekat

 

I know where you are coming from... There is nothing worse than when you are going through the worst crap in your life and some prick tells you to "count it all joy".... A punch in the mouth is probably the correct response..

Well I gave you a star for that, Wylekat has had a real hard time from some of the xtians on ats and I have been quite shocked (but not surprised) by some of their completely ignorant and uncompassionate attitudes.

reply to post by Yissachar1


I agree with you...perhaps I worded my opinion incorrectly. I think it's great when churches start food drives, collect cans of food and clothes, and childrens toys for people who would otherwise have nothing. The church I attented often did "backpack drives" where if you chose to participate, you would be given a backpack to fill with a list of supplies (food, toiletries, etc), and return it to the church when you were finished. The church would take them to the homeless shelters and food banks in the area.

But when it comes to collecting cold hard cash (i.e. when the church claims God demands a tithe, or you will burn) under the guise of "we're feeding the poor with this", that's where I have a problem. I understand it costs money to operate a church, to pay the taxes etc. But much of the money goes to the pastor, and other various sunday school teachers, and I've never really understood why. I mean obviously those people have bills to pay like everybody else, but something about the idea of receiving money in exchange for preaching seems rather...I dunno the word, it just irks me. If you ask me, if somebody feels passionate about a religion that stresses abstinence from material desires, then one should not ask for a salary to preach it.

[edit on 2-3-2010 by Cantthinkofaname]

I think Tithing/Offerings should be used to run the everyday expenses of the church. It should also be used to help the poor But, most importantly it should be used for the Gospel. There are many ways the money needs to be spent. I believe if people will learn to be led by the spirit they will know what church to attend and put their tithe in. The prosperity movement has its scandals and believe me whoever sows corruption will reap it.

reply to post by Cantthinkofaname


Any church that does not tell you about Yeshua then forget them... Any church that does not tell you that we all are sinners needing of a saviour then forget them...

You aint got to pay for that though... Salvation is free... All you have to do is accept that and when you pray, just talk to God like He is your dad.. And He is.. He is all about you.... And loves you.... Just accept that.... He gave His Son for that... It aint no easy deal..

he wants us to love our community.. Even the folks who are hard to love.. Coz we were hard to love too.... Serve God... Love your neighbor...


Loving your neighbor is putting the food in the storehouse.... Its for everyone... You KNOW its right... Do it...

[edit on 2-3-2010 by Yissachar1]

Yeshua, please protect me from your followers, and let them see what they do. They have taken that which you so graciously tried to impart upon them, and perverted it to a degree that surprises even me. Little do they know what you really wanted them to do, that to be is to be a good person, to follow the Golden Rule, and to love everybody. To be the "Christed Self" that you was, when you were here last. Have mercy on them, cause as you said once before, they know not that which they do.

Say hello to your Mom, and tell her thanks for the latest blessings, I really love them.

reply to post by autowrench


Amen


I agree with you ....

The church I used to attend had a homeless person laying on the lawn during services one morning. I was guarding the parking lot with another guy. For some reason, the church (not sure who) called the police on the homeless person. A guy in an unmarked car came with a gun showing. If the money is supposed to go to the poor, why did this church call the cops on a homeless person rather than help out the homeless person? The church claims to really care about the city it's in, yet all the pastors live in another city, where the streets are safer and the schools are better. I don't believe in Mormonism, but I like how their churches are run by volunteers rather than a huge paid staff of pastors. Being a pastor shouldn't be one's only job. These people shouldn't be making more than doctors, driving expensive cars, and living in mansions. Pastors shouldn't be paid anything. True Christians don't do it for the money.

[edit on 2-3-2010 by ivorywire]

reply to post by ivorywire


Mormons live in another city and tithe like there is no tomorrow to pay for their ten wives.. Mormonism is an abomination with a false gospel and doctrine.. Its all about sex... You have to be perfect so you can have sex with loads of celestial goddesses and populate your own planet... A step up from having 70 virgins if you ask me... AND.. You get to wear special underpants! You can't loose!

But you do

Because its false

And many of the rites and practices come from the Freemasons handbook... Satanism.... They do the same things... Research yourself... Its true... Christianity without Christ... Keep away...

reply to post by Keeper of Kheb


The major premise amongst many in this thread is that the tithe is not scriptural for those under the new covenant. If you wish (or feel led to write a check to support your local church in its endeavors, by all means do it. But don't believe for a second that you are obligated or somehow commanded by God to give 10% of your GROSS PAY (because they'll say to you, do you want God to bless your GROSS PAY or NET PAY) to the church. That is a false doctrine my friend.

If you believe this without knowing what the scripture says about this, then you have bought a lie. And the dirtly little secret is that this is probably known amongst the clergy but they do it anyway.

reply to post by ivorywire


And isn't it a shame that you have to "guard" the parking lot during a church service. The people who would steal from you or vandalize are part of the people who need to hear the most.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by Cantthinkofaname

 

Any church that does not tell you about Yeshua then forget them... Any church that does not tell you that we all are sinners needing of a saviour then forget them...

You aint got to pay for that though... Salvation is free... All you have to do is accept that and when you pray, just talk to God like He is your dad.. And He is.. He is all about you.... And loves you.... Just accept that.... He gave His Son for that... It aint no easy deal..

he wants us to love our community.. Even the folks who are hard to love.. Coz we were hard to love too.... Serve God... Love your neighbor...


Loving your neighbor is putting the food in the storehouse.... Its for everyone... You KNOW its right... Do it...

[edit on 2-3-2010 by Yissachar1]

And you want something to take to another level? How 'bout this. God is NOT a closed trinity, but an EXPANDING family.

S&F. I can't tell you how disgusted I get at what the church has become. I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but at time I was. I went to sunday school, youth group on wed nights, bible drill team, etc. My Father was born again and very devout baptist/missionary churchgoer.As I got older I went to church less and less and then in my twenties stopped all together. When I was a teen, I had long hair, pierced ear, played guitar in hard rock bands and every weekend would have to hear about how I was going to hell for having long hair, earrings, rock music and so forth. Fast forward to now, every other church is some Mega-Church with all these thousand yard prozac stare parishoners jumping up and down while the house band plays Christian Rock. The hypocrisy is what started me away from church. My father and aunt were also some of the few lucky ones to have gotten scammed into buying one of those condos at the Jim and Tammy Fayes PTL amusement park and condo thing that ended up going under. But that didn't stop them, no. They just kept giving more and more money to these guys. And when I tried to talk to my dad about how I felt he was being mislead into giving his money to these charlatans, he would just give me some quote of the bible or make some comment about having faith. Like all these other people, he thought that giving your money shows God just how much faith you have. Regardless of what is done with the money.
I remember seeing one of these televangelist couples, the one with the pink hair, and thinking to myself. These people have the gall to be asking for donations and going on and on with all these prophecies like they alone had God's ear and were on his speed dial. And all the while, they are sitting in these gold throne looking chairs on stage all decked out in gold and jewels, fake nails, big wigs, designer clothes, and all the congregation eating out of their hands. I just can't believe that people are so easily manipulated into believing all this nonsense.
Here in my town there was one of these megachurches built a few years ago. It holds a few thousand people and I remember overhearing some folks talking at a resteraunt about their new church and all the goodies they had in it. The TV monitors, the huge stage, sound system, offices, gym, dining hall, the works. I remember wanting to go over and dump their biscuits and gravy over their heads. They were just so proud of their stadium sized church and all their toys. Did they even think about how that money could've gone to help so many people instead of helping themselves. And all that pride over a big church. Like that somehow made them more "Christiany. And of course they keep the money rolling in by putting on these big productions. Like you're going to see Cirque De Soleil or something. Church isn't even about learning of Christ and having a personal relationship with God anymore. It's a stage show. Speaking in tongues, running up and down the aisles, falling all over the stage when the pastor smacks you on the head, and of course hearing all about how you're going to heaven and everyone else is gonna burn in hell. Yippee!
And when someone tries to point out the hypocrisy or how phony it all has become, well then they play the martyrs. "Oh we Christians are so persecuted". It's just sickening anymore. I don't understand how we have become so blinded. It seems as though every aspect of our life has been infiltrated by countless people all trying to con us out of our money but promising us better lives in return, yet life continues it's downward spiral and these folks just keep giving up their hard earned cash.
Personally, I always thought church should be outdoors in the open, bring a lawn chair or a blanket and sit back in the open air, talk about God while surrounded by the beauty of this planet that God created for us.
I believe in an eternal transcendent being who is the creator of all things...and he isn't short on pocket change