I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks)

reply to post by endisnighe


Feeling guilty? Not really, I still stand behind my comments. But I will own up to them.

reply to post by whatukno


Yes, very good!

We are all very much opinionated people, that is why we are here, ME THINKS!

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
"What is a troll?"…In Internet slang, a troll is…Let there be no more confusion on how to define Troll.

That is such a vague and nebulous definition. Internet slang as a definable standard? Please. Troll is now used so often as a pejorative that it is as precise as ‘jerk’ or ‘idiot’. It’s all in the eye of the beholder. The definition for these purposes is too broad and subjective. So yes there is still ‘confusion’ on how to define it because your provided definition is worthless.

That’s what the concern here is. As to which, we all know of the oft quoted phrase coined by Justice Holmes on pornography that, “I know it when I see it”. Yes, but to one person pornography is something involving animals and close relatives. To another person pornography is too much cleavage or thigh showing. One religion's martyr is another’s heretic. The same problem applies to labeling someone a Troll. If there is a problem with Trolls then we should all be clear on what a Troll is.

reply to post by passenger


We all are quite aware of what an internet troll is. It's not that hard to define. Someone who is posting things to get people to try and argue with him is an internet troll.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1626c13fd290.png[/atsimg]

It is really quite simple. If someone is just trying to start an argument they are a troll, if someone is trying to start a discussion, but you don't agree with them, they are just another poster. It's quite easy to spot a troll.

SkepticOverlord,

I think you are right on the money and I am frankly surprised that you all haven't been more heavy handed with Trolls and Thread-Hijackers. Sometimes the out of line behavior I've witnessed gets going and I call 'em out and drop out of the discussion. Those who have deep and distorted convictions are not open to reason and so the discussion quickly degenerates into a middle school brawl. When the Arena of Ideas here becomes a name calling contest instead of debate and discussion then the Mod's should spank the offenders as often and as hard as they feel necessary.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I understand if people S&F when they "agree with the sentiment of the the thread", heck I do that myself once in a while, but that's only when I happen to share the same exact sentiments and agree 99% of what is being discussed.
I figured that's how the S&F system should work and how threads and posts should be rated.

In this case, I'm mixed about evicting the trolls but I still understand why it's being done.

What I was referring to in my post are the suck ups that are S&F trigger happy. Maybe they like to pad themselves on the back whenever they conveniently happen to agree with the Boss. Maybe it's feel good tactic on their part but I don't get it.
I'm referring to the natural born Larry Tate's and Eddie Haskel's of the world that always seem to lay it on thick whenever the Boss has something to say.
They seem to be everywhere, not just here on ATS, and I'm sure everyone knows of at least one suck up they happen to work with.

Maybe sucking up is a part of human nature for some, but how can they be expected to debate the issues honestly when they are obviously afraid to piss off the boss?

Sorry Skeptic some members don't understand so I will spell it out.

Don't insult other members, no matter how stupid their posts are, such as when they post stuff like "Bush was the best President ever" or conversely "Obama is the worst President ever". You can't respond with a
"You're a Neocon Nazi" or a "You're a Commie loving, fag" that violates the
T & S. It's that simple.

Here is some very basic advise.
The ALERT button does work, so use it!

Last year I was in a long debate with a certain poster, once he lost the debate, he began to insult and slander. I let it go for three posts, but I go on the baseball system, three strikes and your out in my books. I alerted on all three posts, up until then, there was no moderation on said thread. Suddenly a MOD jumps in and deletes all the insulting and slanderous posts, replacing them with the appropriate warning, all within a couple hours.
I was thinking wow, I never used the alert button before, it really does work when there is a violation of the T & S.

I am sure if a mod gets enough alerts on super stupid troll post he/she will take action.

Incidentally, after that, the same poster comes back to the thread saying he is leaving ATS for unfair treatment. And just like that he was gone.
We can and do chase the trolls away at times.

Flagrant trolls are easy to spot, but the so called "concerned troll" which is defined in that link SO posted, is way more deadly, he is running a false flag
operation within their posting style, hard to detect at first too. I know we have had lots of them here on ATS. But you can almost never alert their posts.




[edit on 26-2-2010 by Blue_Jay33]

I've been on-line for a long long long...ummm scratch one long..it makes me look to old..lol Anyways... Since the early days of the net when I would run across such *Trolls* I would try over and over to tell people to use that little button labeled *Ignore/block* People just can't do it... I personally find people that try to argue with these *Trolls* just as bad as the *Trolls* themselves. One wants attention by slamming/putting down/etc..etc.. and the other wants attention by coming off all self-righteous towards these guys, and how *Right* they are and how *wrong* the others a. You cannot change someone that doesn't respect you or others... no matter HOW RIGHT YOU ARE!!!! When these people get no attention from anyone guess what they do? That's right...they move on down the road to try and find other morons to argue with. Again... it doesn't matter how right you are by calling out these trolls.. you look just as bad and actually your more irratating because you should know better... just use that little button... think of it as your own private *Nuking of the Trolls!*

Great post... thanks =0)

i think the big thing here is to use common sense, before you post anything think about how you would feel if some one posted a similar post about your ideas. it really goes back to the golden rule do unto others as you would have others do unto you. i know its a very very very difficult concept to grasp, but i really feel like we the people here at ATS have the brain power to figure this one out.

Im personaly tired of listining to people call me an idiot souly based on my religous beliefs, i would much rather they call me an idiot based on my many spelling and grammtical errors. but then again maybe thats just me.

I think as a society we all need to grow a little thicker skin, but along with said skin we need to take into account the feelings of the people we deal with and think about how such things would make us feel if the tables were turned.

i will finish this post with my "feelings" on common sense, know that i have asked you all to use them before posting but....well i guess i will just have to show you....


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/094e094b015c.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by whatukno

Originally posted by whatukno
We all are quite aware of what an internet troll is. It's not that hard to define. It is really quite simple.

Disagree.

Definitions of slang are too malleable – by their very nature – to have a standard and consistently applicable definition. That was the point of my post.

To illustrate, let me ask you this: What’s the definition of “punk’d” then? To one person it might be shooting someone 9 times in a row on a FPS. To another it might be slapping a person in the face and making them cry. To another it might be playing a practical joke on someone. To another it might be stealing someone’s property and not getting caught. That is the problem with such 'definitions'. They are not defined at all. They are not codified and dissectible terms. Therefore, they are entirely subjective and can be used to suit the purposes of the user. “Troll” is such a word.

reply to post by passenger


So if I am to understand your post, you completely refuse to accept what is generally known as an internet troll? As you refuse to acknowledge the definitions given to you for said person?

Perhaps malcontent would suit you better?

But I suspect that you do understand exactly what a troll is, but willfully are refusing to acknowledge that. I don't think there is any confusion in your mind.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
The result has been little more than a temporary reduction of the name calling and rote insults by political idiots and ideological parrots.

Seems like an oxymoron.

Ignore the trolls right? No name calling right?

So why do call some members political idiots?

Idiot - a person of subnormal intelligence. Or. a foolish or stupid person.

Doesn't seem to me the best example of "Manners and Decorum" by calling a group of your members Idiots!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


You reek what you sow by canning the separate AP Board you also got rid of the high quality political discussions that took place . Of course you only choose to see the the usual partisan crap on the old AP board . In short you took an existing problem that was separate from the main ATS board and made it worse by dumping it all in one place . You are fighting a war you can't win at the end of the day .

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Hi,

Well, it definitely is a problem, I'll agree with you there. I myself have basically stopped discussing hardly anything in the last year or two here on ATS, simply because of the trolls and infiltrators.

Yes, I said infiltrators. I firmly believe that there are many "members" of ATS who are not here to discuss politics, or conspiracies, or anything else intelligent (or even not-so-intelligent.) Rather, I think that they have been sent here to derail threads and topics that are getting a significant amount of attention.

A year or two ago, I noticed a general trend towards people coming onto the threads intent on doing nothing but making people angry and derailing it. (I am also not the only one who has noticed this, because I've shared numerous U2U with others who feel the same way.)

For a while, I was honestly beginning to think that ATS had an agreement with certain government agencies that they would let the trolls come and derail threads, in exchange for not being shut down. That's how bad it got! So, I just left ATS for a while. I said I would never come back....but obviously, I did.

Why? My theory is that I think ATS has become a real threat to a certain group of people....and so some people have been sent in to sabotage it. I think ATS has been getting so much attention in the last few years, especially in the area of 9/11.... that it has become a significant threat. Five years ago, I never would have said that, but I am starting to actually believe that there might actually be a group of people who are above the government....I guess everybody else calls them "the powers that be."

It's a shame that so few can spoil something for so many, but it seems that that this is deliberate. And, they seem to have succeeded, because many of us who used to debate and discuss topics on ATS don't do much debating or discussing anymore....simply because we got tired of dealing with the trolls and the infiltrators, who were set on derailing threads.

The thing is, I've always loved a good debate, and when I first joined ATS, I was very happy to find an outlet for this hobby of mine, and I have always strived to debate fairly. (Although I'm not denying that I have lost my temper on occasion in a heated discussion or two, especially when I come across mindless debunkers that seem intent only on debunking every theory that comes along.) But lately, I've only been coming on ATS lately to get my fill of "alternative news," because it's just not worth it. I check ATS daily to see if anything exciting has happened that hasn't been reported by the MSM. But, until the trolls and the infiltrators go away, I probably won't be doing any more debating.

This past winter, I did really get into a thread on the Ukraine flu epidemic. There was one person (I shall not mention his/her name) who was clearly just trying to derail the thread, but instead of kicking him off, the moderators seemed to be protecting him. A bunch of members were U2Uing me, letting me know that this member was doing the same thing in the other "swine flu" threads....basically just trying to derail them, too. And everyone was disgusted with the fact that the moderators were letting him get away with it. But, when any of us tried to "call him" on his tactics, we got penalized for mentioning him by name! It was clearly a case of the moderators protecting him.

So, I guess, if the moderators aren't going to do anything about the trolls, I don't know what we can do. I really don't.

I do know one thing, however....when you guys keep changing the rules of what we can say, and what we can't, and what we can debate, and what we can't...(all because of the few trolls and infiltrators that are on here ruining it for everyone else)... it makes it that much harder for the rest of us to seriously have a good debate. And no, I don't mean that I want to be able to call people names, or anything....but some of the rules and e-mails that have popped up here on ATS lately make me feel like I'm a kindergartner being scolded. And that makes me not want to participate even more.

Anyway, that's my input.

Thanks for asking.








[edit on 26-2-2010 by nikiano]

I can't read through the entire thread now, but this is enough for me.

(Originally posted by SkepticOverlord)
I'm pissed!!

The vitriol in some threads have stopped me from even entering the debate.

As always, I'm here for a good time, not a long time. This is the only board I post on because it has a modicum of decorum.

Sure, a lot of the stuff I post is just fluff, but ATS/BTS are safe places for me to be able to do that and not be shot down.
I expect to be challenged with facts and information to make me consider my point of view, but I despise those that just crap on others that disagree.

Kick some ass Mods.
Be just and thoughtful in your actions, but I miss the civility we had even a while back.


This site should be for education, not indoctrination.
Keep it clean, keep it factual, and we'll all keep coming back.

Judging by the responses... the desired result of this OP just isn't gonna' happen.

Sure wish it would as this is precisely the reason my ATS time dropped off considerably after that initial "wow" factor wore off.

You sign up... you get information overload... you try and soak it all up... and after you've taken in what you can... the truth shines through that this place is nothing more than an argument utopia... note: argument, not discussion. And then the 2 or 3 people who really try and make sense of something are forever lost in the diatribe of 2 strangers at each others throats for 12 pages of worthlessness. That's ATS for you.

Let's hope that changes but I think it's gong to take a lot more than an upset statement from SO to reverse X amount of years of partisan brainwashing... good luck..

Sometimes you have to use simplified language

1. DO NOT insult the person who wrote the post.
By insult we mean: you do not call him/her an idiot, (insert name calling here) or tell them they are retarded.
They are entitled to think the way they want to, as are you.

2. DO NOT reply to a post with things like "this thread/post is a waste of time and/or space" just because the subject does not interest you.
Others are most likely not interested in the same things as you.

3. If you disagree with the post you can say so, but DO NOT say that anyone who does agree with it is stupid.

4. If you think the facts in the post are wrong then find the proof and reply to the post with links to such proof.

5. Healthy debate is encouraged, name calling is not.


And a bit of advice that may help anyone posting a reply --

When you have done typing, hit the preview button, read through your post and ask yourself this --

If you were the OP would your reply be meaningful to the subject or would it be irrelevent, insulting or a slur on your character?

Think how you would feel if someone replied to a post of yours with nastiness, it's not nice.

my 2 cents

I couldn't have said it better myself.
Hopefully everyone will see and respect this post.
Intelligent people with differing views can debate topics without resorting to childish insults.
Really, it can happen!
Thanks for posting this.

Honestly, I've noticed over the years ATS has turned to a very biased direction. It seems conservatives overpower liberals here. But yet, it does seem like a very right wing website...

Sarah Palin threads get torn apart.
Obama threads and how he's evil seem to get front page.
Glenn Beck speeches somehow make it big as well, when ATS should know the guy is a complete douchebag.


ATS itself seems to be a political troll if anything.

Just hope it gets cleaned up. Eventually.

It'd be sad to see this site collapse into right wing ideologies.

Other than that, good thread, I guess....

[edit on 26-2-2010 by GorehoundLarry]

A big issue that people have here is not being able to agree to disagree
It's humbling to do btw.. more people should try it. It also acts as a fulcrum of change for a stale topic.

More people should be aware that SOME trolls have an ANTI-ATS agenda from REAL conspiracies meant to divide. More agreeing to disagree can help opposite viewpoints come together long enough to flush out these intentionally ill mannered folk. This is a community you know.

I have oh so much more to say on the topic but I sprained my ankle yesterday and it hurts to stand on this soap-box

b