I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks)

reply to post by lee anoma

It started building with those ridiculous birth certificate threads

It starts right there!

Originally posted by genius/idoit
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

sprigers thread 116 flags

Maybe some but not all.

117 actually ... forgot to flag it, so thanks for the link pimp.

We like Springer, he's funny and usually smells classy ... and he's happy when he gets flags because such things matter a great deal to him and when he's happy he gets less 'banny' ... surely an element you may wish to consider.

Now, what does this have to do with political trolling and political hacks?

[edit on 25 Feb 2010 by schrodingers dog]

Originally posted by zaiger
im just not getting it, the moderators do not want to moderate so the members have to "kill them with silence".

What? Where do you see ANY moderator state that they do not want to moderate? Are you under the impression that moderators are forced to do this? I assure you this is strictly a volunteer gig....

Let me say we are members first and moderators last.

Let me also say, that there are merely 60 + mods on this site that contains several hundred thousand members....

We cannot do this with out the help of our fellow members and any one who thinks we can, is mistaken... We are not robots. We are ordinary people from all over the world who take time out of our own lives to moderate here.

We all have jobs, and families and are not able to do it all by ourselves. Have you ever considered why the members here all have the ability to alert the staff to possible T&C violations?

It is because we cannot and will not see everything. We need the help of everybody to make this site be all that it can be.

We post this because WE NEED YOUR HELP! We are only human.

We are not going to change the rules to allow trolls and trash talking, and ignorance... If we do that, then expect the death of our website very quickly.

The bottom line is this. It is not the staff that makes ATS what it is. It is not the owners either. It is the membership as a whole that makes ATS the greatest website in the world.

It is our ability to discuss topics rationally, and intelligently that puts us on top.

This is not a "mods" not wanting to do their job thing". THIS is a community needing to stand up and work together in order to stay the best.

If we as members allow trolls, then how will we be any different than any other site? Here at ATS we hold ourselves to a higher set of rules. They are actually enforced here to, which prompt some to claim "moderator abuse" but that is another story...

Something that a lot of people forget is something that I have already said. Mods are members first!!! We are members just like you and we are held to the exact same rules as you.

The saying needs to be brought back. DENY IGNORANCE. DENY IGNORANCE. DENY IGNORANCE

Allow trolls and you embrace ignorance. Ignore them and you deny it. I don't know about the rest of you.

I don't know about everyone else, but I choose not to give energy to the trolls.

I choose to deny ignorance... But we cannot do this alone. Either we work together in denying ignorance or we fall apart.

Again, this is not a case of mods not wanting to do their jobs. This is a case of calling the entire membership to action against ignorance.

Will you answer the call? I sure hope so.

Deny ignorance.

S.O.

Why not take this a step further? And hear me out... i know what your first reaction will be...but allow me to explain:

Why not devise a method to call people out? Perhaps a list is in order? Hell, chances are im on that list for one thing or another, and many of us would be SURPRISED to find out if we're on that list or not.

But that list can serve some good as well.


Example?

If i *knew* i was on that list - i can bet you euros to dollars that I'd shape my act up in a hurry. Not for fear of being banned, but for fear of rejection.

And anyone who would not see it as an opportunity o shape up and instead choose to leave, well hell, didn't want them here anyway, right?

I, like several members thus far, feel as though im not a troll. I know i've been in some heated exchanges before, had a few off topics pinned on me, and had one "insult" removed - but seeing your post both excites me and concerns me.

I sure as hell dont' want to be on a black list.

Why not give us the tools to make ourselves better? You've already taken it this far, whats it more to give some examples and clear the air?

After reviewing threads from previous years where "trolls" were instantly deleted ALONG with users who made outrageous claims with no evidence, I conclude that the moderation is too flexible now. People will make outrageous claims with not even (one) shred of evidence (example John Lear) and no one will do anything about it. I think mods need to crack down.

reply to post by gwydionblack


See, this is what I'm talking about. People on ATS don't like to R-E-A-D, and when you point it out to them they either say you're off topic or spin things to make it seem as if you're the bad guy. Watch and learn people, this is idiocy in one of its finest moments:

This post is about political trolling and insults yet you can't even post in here without referring so someone as a "hack" or and "idiot"?

Did I introduce those terms? A simple reading of this threads title should lead you to the obvious conclusion that I didn't introduce "hack" to this topic. Moreover, if you had R-E-A-D what I was replying to, you'd see the person I was replying to introduced "idiots" to the topic and I was simply using the terminology they used and based my question on that.

Perhaps ATS should simply crack down on all personal insults in general, even outside of political discussion because it seems to be a rampant thing going on.

No, perhaps ATS readers/users should pay more attention to the posts they reply to and utilize basic cognitive skills before they actually post.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I thought this thread was about how trolls and hacks will be treated by the mods?

I was responding to another poster, Springer actually.

And besides how would you have known you missed a chance to flag a mods thread if I didn't? You should have just said thanks.

reply to post by genius/idoit


Actually he was called on it, apologized for his actions and moved it to BTS.

I have made a thread in the guise as a "Calling SkepticOverload Out" once, wrote out a whole list of "grievances" that was nothing more than the announcement of my 1000th post and as a thank you thread to the staff and members back about a year ago during a time of stress over (I believe) the same subject and context of this thread. I did U2U a mod later to have it moved to BTS where it belonged.

Both mine and Springer's thread didn't belong on ATS and were moved to their proper place. I actually found it refreshing that a person posted a thread about helping a friend reach a positive achievement as opposed to helping a friend through a hard time. But that is just me, I guess.

Originally posted by Alxandro

Originally posted by smarteye
There should be a troll button like there is a star button. Receive a certain number of troll clicks and your post is deleted.

I think that is a damn good idea, really wish it could be implemented.

Another thing that should probably be added is a special "brown noser alert" button.

Have you ever noticed how whenever someone like SO, Springer or certain Super Mods happen to chime in out of the blue on any particular topic, certain members quickly respond by giving them a quick star and a quick response?

Why?
Do they think they'll get special favors and points?

This to me is more of an epidemic than the trolling issue.
I guess some people are just natural born, brown nosing, yes men.

Edit: update to prove my point.
85 flags plus 41 more stars as of the time of this edit.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Alxandro]

Well said........very well said.

What kills me are the mini MoD's.

That is another issue that could be addresses.

The forum already has MoD's .....and good one at that.

Okay, I have been having fun with this thread.

Sorry SO.

My views on trolling and political discourse.

TPTB have trained us for the last 40 years that political discussion in personal situations is a bad thing. They have taught us that there is NOTHING we can do. Frustration is the name of the game.

That being said, frell and frack them. I will cuss and discuss and get to the bottom of everything!

Hell, I use to hate Dems, now I despise them! Of course now I despise the Repubs also!

Learn to see beyond your own hypocrisy peeps. We need to come together against the two headed snake.

Just one thing to think about, when was the last time that either party stopped illegal or unConstitutional law from the previous administration?

Stop the idiocy and ignorance!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thank you for posting this I will not be responding to anymore trolls and insulting posters anymore.

I have no problem discussing any issue with anyone, even if I do not agree with the poster.
As long as the person treats me with the same respect that I treat the them.

I love discussing 911 but the personal attacks against the Truthers in most of the 911threads have become unbearable at times.
I have seen some posters who just stay on the 911 threads to only post negative insult and ridicule and are just disrespectful to everyone who does not believe in the OS of 911.
You’re absolutely right neither party will resolve anything in all this bickering it will only chase the causal ATS readers away, and that is something we don’t want.

I agree with you on this complaint and I am done feeding the Trolls.


[edit on 25-2-2010 by impressme]

Originally posted by Snarf
Why not devise a method to call people out?

As one member already pointed out, we're not about negative labels... though have considered it in this case.

The thread was in response to a recent review of our complaints forum. Easily 40% of all complaints were one political troll complaining about another. My opening post expressed no new punishment policy, no new strict and decisive action for bannings, and no new action-plan for such behavior. Instead, it's a rather simple statement (albeit expressed with some intense frustration), that if you litter our streets with your garbage, don't expect us (staff) to listen to your complaints about the litter of others.

Why not give us the tools to make ourselves better? You've already taken it this far, whats it more to give some examples and clear the air?

The tools have always existed right here.

Terms & Conditions Summary: The below specific and itemized rules not withstanding, all members are expected to participate with the same common every-day social graces used in civilized mixed company. Our desire is to foster an environment of civil decorum that enables our members to discuss highly provocative and intensely speculative topics without concern over personal attacks or insults.

Originally posted by grayghost
What kills me are the mini MoD's.

That is another issue that could be addresses.

The forum already has MoD's .....and good one at that.

What the hell are mini MoDs?

Right, let us see how many things one can get wrong in a short post ...

Originally posted by genius/idoit
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

I thought this thread was about how trolls and hacks will be treated by the mods?

That's right, hence my question as to the relevance of number of flags for an administrators thread to said topic.

I was responding to another poster, Springer actually.

Actually you were responding to SO.

And besides how would you have known you missed a chance to flag a mods thread if I didn't?

Because you linked it, and I clicked on the link, and I saw I hadn't flagged it.

You should have just said thanks.

I did.

So, now, anything on topic or just further transparent attempts to derail?

reply to post by gimme_some_truth

Where do you see ANY moderator state that they do not want to moderate?

I have never seen any moderator say that but have you been to the conspiracy in religion board? Not a single conspiracy there just christians and atheists trolling each other. Now at the top of the board it says non conspiracy subjects will be moved to BTS rants when is that done?

Let me also say, that there are merely 60 + mods on this site that contains several hundred thousand members....

You guys should probably get some more mods and start handing out bans for the trouble members.

We are not going to change the rules to allow trolls and trash talking, and ignorance...

Yes but from this thread we get the idea that ATS is not going to change the rules but is getting tired of enforcing them.

The saying needs to be brought back. DENY IGNORANCE. DENY IGNORANCE. DENY IGNORANCE

I think that saying needs to be put to bed, it has become cliche now and really does not mean much anymore. The way it is used on the boards is

"you do not agree with me and i deny ignorance and how can you say something like that and deny ignorance."

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Snarf
Why not devise a method to call people out?

As one member already pointed out, we're not about negative labels... though have considered it in this case.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I have a suggestion ATS...

From now one as a Member is found to be trolling instead of a red tag under their avatar that states "WARN" why not one that states [TROLL]?

I think a Nice puke green color would be cool.

Let them carry that around for about 40 or 50 posts, I would say for a few days but many would simply take a few days off until it was gone. I'm sure plenty of members here would love to see who has been trolling. Sorta like Jailhouse justice.

Most parents strongly advise their children, 'Don't discuss politics, religion or money '

At dinner parties, I've heard people say to someone else with possibly a smile, or maybe not, ' No, no. I make it a point not to discuss politics ' (or religion, or money)

These days, politics and religion appear to dominate many online forums

One of the reasons parents advised their children not to discuss these topics is because they are issues about which people feel and debate (argue) passionately

This forum depends for much of its traffic upon political discussions. And just as people in real life come to blows over opposing ideologies, so too they come to verbal blows in this and other forums

Yes, it's crazy, because in a few years, issues which appear so vital today --- will have become history

reply to post by zaiger

Yes but from this thread we get the idea that ATS is not going to change the rules but is getting tired of enforcing them.

OHHHHHHHHH, I am sorry I misunderstood, is this true, no enforcing?

I don't complain to mods as a rule.

OK peace, out.

reply to post by Dock9


My family never ever discussed political things two years ago.

Now, that is all we discuss when we get together!

I feel we need to discuss this crap MORE!

What is the most important thing in our lives now?

We are on the edge and we all know it. We HAVE to discuss what is going on.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


well i guess more where im coming from is the gray areas, and please believe me, im not saying that you're wrong...im actually agreeing with your premise, but it's the gray areas that leave me concerned.

What i mean is you say litter'ers will be ignored. Okay, thats fair, and we know some hardcore definitions of litter'ers.

Obama is the antichrist
Bush is the antichrist
Obama's birth certificate
Bush planned 9/11

Those are some glaring examples that come to mind when i read your thread.

But All im asking for is clarification that makes sense to me. Call me an idiot if you wish, but, some of my beliefs, and some of my threads, might be considered "HARSH" by anyone with an opposing view, and that "HARSH" impression could turn into accusations of being guilty of things discussed in your IM PISSED thread.


So for those of us newer people who might have a desire to play by the rules, what REALLY constitutes a litterer?

"I think Republicans are stupid" is a vague statement. But what if you say "I think republicans are stupid because they play the same games as democrats"

or

"I think democrats are stupid because they play the same games as republicans"

I mean - if you consider yourself a democrat, you're going to be PISSED at my statement.


So does this "gray area" just boil down to semantics?

Is it acceptable to say " I think democrats(or republicans) can't think 5 minutes ahead of their next step. They walk around numb to the world"


and unacceptable to say "democrats are stupid"

One is harsh, the other is clouded behind "kinder" words....but they're both the same thing.