Hugo Chavez demands Queen returns Falkland Islands to Argentina

hmm i remeber hearing this song dedicated to the falklands sometime ago, they are swedish, so slightly cheesy power metal band, but this ones for all the brits in here!!


[edit on 23-2-2010 by hans kammler]

reply to post by gusan


See, there's the thing - from you we have had NO facts, just half assed badly written and barely comprehensible rubbish.

It's time for you to back up what you are saying with some evidence.

I think people have been more than patient, but all you do is spout tripe with nothing to back it up.

Evidence please.

reply to post by gusan


So lets sum up your views so far which dont really seem to have a solid base: (correct me if I am wrong)

The UK should give up the falklands to an aggressive take over attempt leaving the people no choice in the matter

People should be free to choose what they want and take advantage of their freedoms

Countries that invade and start wars are bad

But Argentina are OK in their attempt to invade another country

We should completely rewind history and everyone go back to their country of ancestral origin so that the natives can have their countries back.

The UK should give the falklands BACK to Argentina

Argentina never had any stake in the Falklands it was the Spanish first

We should do what the people want and not fight over resources

It doesnt matter that the people in the falklands want to be British

Can you not see that these are not only completely unrealistic and impractical but also contradict each other on almost every level

reply to post by hans kammler


Count me out on this one, maybe im just not True Brit enough.

reply to post by budski


Please man, what evidence do you need?
You sound like you are convinced that when your gov send you for war they are doing the right thing and has always good intentions and the one and only rightfull reson for it.
Do you even question the wars you are involved in?
Do you question your gov involvment in many South am countries?
Do you question the warlords capacity to acess great amounts of money?
If yes you should understand what i am saying, if no you keep living following your masters orders. They surely love people that never ever question them.

reply to post by gusan


That's where you're wrong.

I was one of the most vocal opponents of the invasions of iraq and afghanistan.

This is different.

Now, some evidence for your assertions or shall I just put you on ignore now?

and news just in......................

Latin American leaders back Argentina over Falkland oil drilling

Latin America and Caribbean nations appeared to close ranks behind ­Argentina today in its dispute with Britain over oil exploration in Falkland islands' waters. A summit of 32 countries in Mexico endorsed an Argentine document accusing Britain of flouting international law by permitting drilling to begin this week, said Argentina's president, Cristina Kirchner. "We have achieved very strong support, something that legitimates our claims fundamentally against the new petroleum activity." The Argentine statement quoted Mexico's president, Felipe Calderón, saying: "The heads of state represented here reaffirm their support for the legitimate rights of the republic of Argentina in the sovereignty dispute with Great Britain."

so there we go then, 32 nations are now backing argentina, looks like all of south america and the caribbean are starting to side against britain.
whilst there is no immediate official statement, all of south america is now with the argies on this one, they want the falklands handed over.

to those who say there is no official statement, its only a matter of time now, 32 countries getting toghether to agree to a plan of action at this stage is going to be problematic, when they decide what they can do they will make their statement.

i would be wary about being complecent right now, some posters said it wouldnt get as far as even venezuela joining in, but all of south america is a whole new ball game now. 32 countries might be an obstacle.
though im sure the royal navy would be able to smash them apart, it would be a tall order.
the situation is growing more complicated.

[edit on 23-2-2010 by hans kammler]

Originally posted by aristocrat2

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by BabyMD

 

Actually, they are not. There is no indiginous population so it doesn't come under the "decolonisation" rules.

The Falklanders ARE the indigenous people, fool. It was English feet that first stepped our upon Falklands golden shores before any other humans.

First off, don't call me a fool when it is you with the reading comprehension problem. It's also against the T&C's

Secondly, we agree actually. This is the second time in this thread you have misquoted someone, laid into them and not actually read what they said.

My response you quoted was a result of someone claiming the UK should decolonise as per the UN rules. Go read it again.

Originally posted by Pryde87
reply to post by gusan

 

So lets sum up your views so far which dont really seem to have a solid base: (correct me if I am wrong)

The UK should give up the falklands to an aggressive take over attempt leaving the people no choice in the matter
ANSWER; The uk is your gov, i dont expect them to be civiliced. But all of you craving for war should stop and think first.

People should be free to choose what they want and take advantage of their freedoms
ANSWER; que?
Countries that invade and start wars are bad
ANSWER; they are not bad, they conquer, they NEED the natural resourses or the geographical point.

But Argentina are OK in their attempt to invade another country
ANSWER;who said that? Is it really an attempt to invade the islands or is this just a picture a few here on ATS wants to see.

We should completely rewind history and everyone go back to their country of ancestral origin so that the natives can have their countries back.
ANSWER; yes, as i stated earlier this is not an easy question HOW this could be done. I could suggest an official statement from those countries and beside "words on a paper" they could see that the remaining natives get a god living, like free land or somethiong..it is just a suggestion that comes to my mind.

The UK should give the falklands BACK to Argentina
ANSWER;This could be discussed..i think yes they should.

Argentina never had any stake in the Falklands it was the Spanish first
ANSWER; it is a matter of how we are suposed to define things. It IS the natural country that should "own" it. I think it is not about how many years you ruled there, that gives us only how long you have been in power of something you took by force. not by natural circumstances.

We should do what the people want and not fight over resources
ANSWER; YES! NOT FIGHT!

It doesnt matter that the people in the falklands want to be British
ANSWER; yes sure it matters, all parts involved should care about THEM first of all.

Can you not see that these are not only completely unrealistic and impractical but also contradict each other on almost every level
ANSWER; yes some are impractical i admit, but still it is the truth.

The main point i am trying to get throu is that this are your values, your views you think you have the right to kill because someone you dont even know is from your country or allied..and you go there and kill and die. Ok, nobel brave and all that sh#¤ But the real reason you are there doing this has nothing to do with your values..or your views..it has NOTHING to do with you.
You are there to make somebody more powerfull than he allready is.

reply to post by Faiol


We'd need support for a ground war in Argentina proper, but this would be a defensive action only.

Britain has no desire to take on Argentina as a dependency, especially now.

There'll be a Naval blockade of the Falklands. If Argentina tries to run it and or attack it, a defensive fight will ensue.

Diplomatic this and that, and Argentina will limp off to lick it's wounds and accept the resource sharing deal offered to them a while ago.

The shame, as has been said by other posters, is that people are going to die and be maimed and injured. All for a bit of posturing to strengthen their demands for an extra %.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by aristocrat2

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by BabyMD

 

Actually, they are not. There is no indiginous population so it doesn't come under the "decolonisation" rules.

The Falklanders ARE the indigenous people, fool. It was English feet that first stepped our upon Falklands golden shores before any other humans.

First off, don't call me a fool when it is you with the reading comprehension problem. It's also against the T&C's

Secondly, we agree actually. This is the second time in this thread you have misquoted someone, laid into them and not actually read what they said.

My response you quoted was a result of someone claiming the UK should decolonise as per the UN rules. Go read it again.

I just have to point out the level of ignoranse.
Read what you are saying: The Falklanders ARE the indigenous people, fool. It was English feet that first stepped our upon Falklands golden shores before any other humans.

And you justifie a full scale attack on this statement?

Please note that it is not stumason i am quoting.

Originally posted by Maykay
Perhaps a chance to mobilise the first of our new destroyers?

Mobilise them for what exactly ?

As of today, not one Type 45 has anti-aircraft, anti-ship or anti-submarine capability. But it's got a nice 4.5" gun, though, wonder if that works ?

The Falkland's can't rely on the RN this time - one carrier decommissioned, one in refit, another limping along (assuming she hasn't caught fire again), the rest of the fleet hopelessly scattered across the seven seas or tilting and riding at rusty anchor because the Admiralty can't afford to send them out.

Never a better time to attempt an invasion, tbh.

reply to post by hans kammler


See, this is where I have a problem..

Where are the 32 countries names?
how many are commonwealth nations? is the whole of Caricom involved?
(one full member of Caricom is a British overseas territory, as are 5 associate members)

Will the next step be to demand those over to the nearest neighbour??

What do we do about those members of Caricom who serve in our armed forces? Do they become enemies if they are members of nations that are taking an agressive stance against Britain?

I still can not put my finger on why this smells bad..

Edit to add: not a dig at you.. jsut interested in know who is on the list

[edit on 23/2/10 by thoughtsfull]

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by gusan

 

That's where you're wrong.

I was one of the most vocal opponents of the invasions of iraq and afghanistan.

This is different.

Now, some evidence for your assertions or shall I just put you on ignore now?

If you are against the invasion of irak then you know wars are manufactured. So why do you feel this would be aceptable? Worth killing for..and so on.
I allready told you about evidence..you are asking what you allready know.

Ok, can you please tell me why this is diferent?
Instead of making this a question of pride and honor..why not just give the islands to the arg? WHO CARES? Its not like just giving away london, its completly possible to do this in cooperation and diplomacy.
The island is near Arg, we took it long ago by force...ok lets give it to them.
Population on the island need to be sure of security and legal aspects.
Any natural resourses shoud be shared among population and Arg/GB for x years.

Now, i know this is naiv, but if you start to think WHY this is not possible you come to the conclusion that someone really wants a war over there for some reason..wich is not worth kill or die for, its not about you.

reply to post by gusan


Because the wishes of the people who live there are more important than argentine posturing and trouble causing.

Argentina is trying to act like a bully, and sometimes you have to stand up to a bully, especially when freedom of people and self determination is at stake.

Put simply, some things are worth fighting for.

reply to post by hans kammler


I pointed this out a couple of pages ago. The stakes have indeed been raised for the oil cartels riding in the carriage with the Queen right now.

Brazil backing Argentina alone should be enough to give the clear thinkers here some pause. The only country down there that certainly wont help is Columbia but South America can get buy without them anyway.

If this thing keeps escalating all the way up to armed conflict I see the UK enjoying initial success and will control the day for the first month. But after that I see the costs beginning to make their presence known.

And who knows, the South Americans might even have a few more ship busters than Argentina had back in 82. If their smart, they'll save these for troop transports to deliver the maximum psychological effect and casualty ratios. They should let the battleships and destroyers have their way with controlling the seas and just focus on attrition at first. Later on they can mount concentrated efforts to take out an aircraft carrier or battleship. I think if they play it like that and not even use their navies at first then you'll see Gordon Brown's approval rating slump into the dumps and perhaps the offshore drilling will cease.

People, don't count this thing as a sure win just yet.

I don't see Argentina getting back the Falklands no matter what. But I do see them having a chance at beating back the anglo/gringos for once being that they now are enjoying so much regional popular support at this time.

This united step by most of Central/South America is unprecedented and much more serious than I've seen given credit on this topic as of this date.

I don't know if this has escaped the British members here but most of the world is not only pissed off at the USA but also the UK as well. You don't get to help the US invade two countries who did you no wrong and get a free pass. I would rather the UK give up on this oil arrogance and save their young men's lives should hostilities materialize. A Pan American alliance will be too much to handle this time around in my opinion. Especially if Brazil mobilizes. Watch out for Brazil!

Also, if the current president of Argentina thinks that this will win her another term (whether she's deluding herself or not) we might just see this evolve into open hostilities.

True, the UK has better firepower and training on it's side. But you can not escape numbers. The Germans had those advantages and were steadily pushed out of Russia because of that.

Hell, they could claim victory just by sinking that oil rig should push come to shove and then issue a declaration that they'll do the same thing to the next rig that the Britts send down there. It is possible and it could definitely give them a numerical advantage if things are concentrated on that oil rig. When you have enough forces it is not unheard of to mount a diversion. Like say sending 30 or so planes after a aircraft carrier and the real attack force being send a hour later after that rig.

As I said, don't count the South Americans out too quickly as they may have much more options than any of us even know about at this point.

Once again, I hope the very best for the British and that not one of them should lose their lives over this. But drilling off the coast of the Falklands is just a little too arrogant in my books for South America to have to sit and bear for too long. Here I think is the true underlining problem about this whole affair.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by gusan

 

That's where you're wrong.

I was one of the most vocal opponents of the invasions of iraq and afghanistan.

This is different.

me too my friend.. Huge difference.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Also, the UK cannot afford another war. It is on the verge of bankruptcy.

Not a problem. There are plenty of Commonwealth nations that ALWAYS come to the aid of the mother country.

Thanks Canada. Always loved you.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
This is gonna look like an anti-UK rant but eh.

Chavez is right. Empires are over. The UK should be no difference. Also IMO the monarchy should all be hanged or at the very least kicked out of their palace, and stripped of everything they own that belongs to the people.

Also, the UK cannot afford another war. It is on the verge of bankruptcy. The british people should go to war with their own government instead of going to war with Argentinians, which by the way, were destroyed economically by the big banks, most of them originating in the UK.

The UK should stay on it's freaking island and shut the hell up, you screwed the world enough. Continue being slaves, while drinking beer all day long and getting your panties in a bunch over a freaking sport match while your country crumbles under the tyranny, you seem to like it.

BTW, that was a rant against the UK monarchy, which i hate with all my being, the Uk government, which is corrupt as hell, the banks, which are screwing everyone in the world and the lazy dumb english people.

It seems like all the good people of england have left this hellhole and I don't blame you for it, I would have done the same.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Vitchilo]

Of the three nations involved, Britain is far more capable of financing a conflict than either Chavez or Argentina. Yes, the age of empires is over, but the Falkland Islands is populated by 99% UK citizens. It's not like the Brits are "oppressing" a population of Argentinians. Do you not remember how things worked out last time? Remember the cruiser General Belgrano? It will be much worse this time, with modern cruise missiles and there would obviously be a covert mission to take out that grinning sphincter Chavez.

Originally posted by grantbeed
I don't think the Falklands will ever be getting handed over to Argentina as long as there are comments like those made by Chavez.

I think we can all be assured that if a conflict ever did happen again, Venezuela would be pounded by the USA if they intervened.

We can only hope. Let the UK take care of their citizens on the Falklands, watch the Argentine economy destroy itself (again) and the US will make sure Chavez and his henchmen are never seen again. Anyway we can.