Eating Alices Cookie didnt take me to Wonderland. Stop telling people to avoid medication!!!

JESUS CHRIST. All of you people bashing prescription meds sound just like Fox news when they use their famous "well some people say..." line.
Give. Concrete. Evidence. Give a specific example of how terribly awful and what pre-meditated trick it was. Yes, the FDA is a business. Everything is a business. I'm 100% positive that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE would have a huge expose' about all these fake medicines that you are so adamant about.
Everything in life has side effects. If I happen to be the 1% that gets a headache when I take my anti-anxiety meds, then so be it and I'll talk to my doctor to switch to something else that doesn't react with my body that way.

Originally posted by Scarcer
reply to post by demongoat

 

Whats more important than listing the side affects is the fact that the FDA gives green light to a lot of the more harmful drugs. There's room in the doctors office for some drugs, that people really need for conditions that aren't so easy to cure with therapy and natural means. But all the drugs that do too much damage? Why are they even legal?

what drugs do you mean? a lot of the drugs they green light only become dangerous after they are put on the market, it is impossible to determine the outcome of every situation someone might have in the world.
i don't trust natural means, most natural means are less tested than the pharma stuff.
drugs that are safe for 99% of people, might be dangerous for that 1%, does that change the fact that 99% of the people that take the drug get better? or should we just get rid of all medicine that harms a 1% or less due to unforeseen issues?

Is the FDA really out for our interests?

i would hope so, but they are people and people aren't perfect

Doesn't the head of the FDA rotate out every few years and get replaced by a corporate member?

i'm not sure what relevance this has to what i posted?

Originally posted by gsuboy
JESUS CHRIST. All of you people bashing prescription meds sound just like Fox news when they use their famous "well some people say..." line.
Give. Concrete. Evidence. Give a specific example of how terribly awful and what pre-meditated trick it was. Yes, the FDA is a business. Everything is a business. I'm 100% positive that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE would have a huge expose' about all these fake medicines that you are so adamant about.
Everything in life has side effects. If I happen to be the 1% that gets a headache when I take my anti-anxiety meds, then so be it and I'll talk to my doctor to switch to something else that doesn't react with my body that way.

Yep, if it isn't prescribed by a licensed doctor its fake.

You've heard it from the source, humanity.

Originally posted by toochaos4u
In some ways I agree and disagree with you. One might be able to manage depending on the severity of the problem. I was given large doses of Adderall and other things for ADHD and Bipolar for several years. It literally zombiefied me to the point that creativity was gone, zeal for anything was gone.

did you tell your doctor it did that? if so and he still wanted you to take it, he failed at his job.

My psychiatrist at the time said that it was all trial and error because they didn't know exactly how anti-depressants worked because some people became worse on them while others showed improvement. Adderall for instance made me violent and ill natured. Prozac made me just not care about anything, calm, souless. Some of the others made me extremely sleepy all the time.

that doesn't have anything to do with "we don't know how anti-depressants work" that is more like "everyone is not the same, so we have to find the right combination for each person"
adderall isn't an anti-depressant its a psychostimulent, it is supposed to make you more focused, it made me more sleepy though.

It helped me more so to recognize signs of problems upcoming within my own body. It is hard to describe but, I am also pre-diabetic and by the same account I know when my blood sugar is high or low. Meditation and leaving a stressful job that didn't hold my interests helped out so much. I am happy. I know when an episode is approaching and take a long nap to bypass most of it. Other times realizing that if a certain action is taken that it will be regretted later.

well thats good for you, glad to hear it

One of my good friends is on medication for schizophrenia. He really needs these meds because he will become a danger to himself. He thinks his parents are poisoning him and that Mormons want to kidnap him and are hiding in his house, bushes etc. It sounds kinda funny but, he is frightened out of his mind. There is just no way for him to be off his meds. It is odd though that when he first stops using medication he becomes extremely creative but, it fades within a day or so to madness. On meds he has no creativity.

a sad side effect, but pretty much has to do with how his body interacts with the meds.
i would assume they tried all kinds of meds for him?

Well Anti depressents do not work full stop if anything they act just exactly like a placebo does. You want proof here www.newsweek.com... and read more links at the bottom.
I suffer from depression and no amount of "medication" will cure me. I have to come to realise people make me depressed and people not using their brains makes me so angry its beyond a joke. I swear I was born on the wrong planet......

reply to post by gsuboy


why must there be a pill for this and a pill for that?, why do you need a pill for anxiety. my father died froma heart attack, then 1 year and three days my sister died from cancer, if i where you i would have run to the doctor for a pill, but i didnt, it is lazy and every time you pop a pill rather than come to terms with things like anxiety or depression you are becoming more and more dependant on them, that is why people suffer with things like depression, because they have forgotten how to cope, obviously this is not everyone, but the simple fact that somebody goes to a doctor reveals that they are ready to deal with a problem, the meds dont make them better, they do it for themselves, the meds just make it harder

Originally posted by gsuboy
JESUS CHRIST. All of you people bashing prescription meds sound just like Fox news when they use their famous "well some people say..." line.
Give. Concrete. Evidence. Give a specific example of how terribly awful and what pre-meditated trick it was. Yes, the FDA is a business. Everything is a business. I'm 100% positive that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE would have a huge expose' about all these fake medicines that you are so adamant about.
Everything in life has side effects. If I happen to be the 1% that gets a headache when I take my anti-anxiety meds, then so be it and I'll talk to my doctor to switch to something else that doesn't react with my body that way.

" All of you people bashing prescription meds sound just like Fox news when they use their famous "well some people say..." line.
Give. Concrete. Evidence."

Should read more of the thread before saying these things. There is proof given all throughout this thread by various members.

And take a chill pill.

Please try not to exaggerate to get your point across.

"Yes, the FDA is a business."

The FDA is a business, but it is also has a job to do which our "government designates" to keep us healthy. There are loads of dirt on it being a corrupt and worthless. Want some easy proof? Look at your FDA Recommended Daily Value Chart.

"I'm 100% positive that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE would have a huge expose' about all these fake medicines that you are so adamant about."


What would you consider to be a 'huge expose'? Would it have to come from our mainstream media? Since when has the media looked out for the people? Would 90% of the population have to be outraged? Thing is, in our current situation, this will never come from a popular source.

Do some more research before making up your mind. "Huge exposes" are all over. Just don't expect big media to pick it up and spread the news.

"Everything in life has side effects."
Exaggeration?

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Scarcer]

Originally posted by demongoat
what drugs do you mean? a lot of the drugs they green light only become dangerous after they are put on the market, it is impossible to determine the outcome of every situation someone might have in the world.
i don't trust natural means, most natural means are less tested than the pharma stuff.
drugs that are safe for 99% of people, might be dangerous for that 1%, does that change the fact that 99% of the people that take the drug get better? or should we just get rid of all medicine that harms a 1% or less due to unforeseen issues?

Well to say they only become dangerous after they are approved would be neglectful of the trials. Though all over you read that various companies are chosing to only publish specific studies or buying out studdies (nothing exclusive to food or drugs).

Sorry for being vague. Well, there are a lot of common drugs with some large drawbacks. Though you'll laugh at me for saying that vicodin is back because it's got some nasty affects and is several times easier to get access to than morphine, with a large black market for vikodin and so many other prescriptions. BUT that's not the fda's fault.

I know people who take adderoll, the mental side affects are pretty damn bad. There's a far better option to take but my post would get deleted for mentioning the name.

Something that is highly dangerous physically is blood pressure medication and possibly blood thinners. May not seam soo bad since they are so common, but the medical information is extremely misleading. High blood pressure is usually caused by cardiovascular disease which is actually Chronic Scurvy. So treating high blood pressure is treating a symptom and not a cause. When a person dies from heart attack, heart failure, or stroke, cause of death is going to say "stroke, heart attack" or that the person had heart disease. No one is going to point out the person was taking beta blockers; which both enhance risk of death and has MANY potential interactions with food. So on this issue, it's dangerous both because of it's roll and the medical knowledge passed down to professionals. We have doctors telling people that cardiovascular disease is not reversible. Simply not true.

You also have cholesterol reducers which is another misinfo war. Some cholesterol reducers as a side affect inhibit some enzyme creation within the body. A huge drawback is the inhibition of co-enzyme q10 which is important for energy and oxygen utilization in the body, which is going to cause more long term health complications. If you supplement co-enzyme q10 while your taking blood pressure medications, you are at HIGH risk for drug interaction as the co-enzyme will enhance the drug absorption in the body, ending up with low blood pressure.

Expecting instant-large scale drawbacks physically more than than long term chronic complications is rather unrealistic.

Besides just drugs, the FDA also lets by a ton of food additives with very bad affects. I hope I don't have to go indepth here.

The FDA would be good to revise and revisit their entire health and knowledge platform both more often and more in-depth.

But it's not just the FDA's fault and wouldn't be such an issue if our medical platform worked a bit better.

THOUGH I'm going to throw myself my own curve ball here. Perhaps it would be good for all of us to see a list of drugs and supplements that the FDA HAS banned.

i would hope so, but they are people and people aren't perfect

Well the Recommended Daily Value Chart is common proof otherwise in my opinion.

i'm not sure what relevance this has to what i posted?

Well it doesn't have to have relevance to your post. I just posted that as something I wasn't sure about.

Supposedly the head of the fda is rotated out every few years and is generally a position ran by pharmaceutical company members.

Doing a quick search, I can't find any immediate information to that statement. So at this time my statement holds no ground and I'm not sure what to think myself.

However information about FDA members with stocks and money ties with such companies keep coming up.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Scarcer]

reply to post by OzWeatherman

Nooo you should absolutely defend yourself! of course And yes i agree on such posts as mentioned 'depression is retarded' is really the stupidist thing i think i have heard in some time lol.. it is a serious issue without a doubt, i just personally dont feel meds are the main way to help it.. I would never expect anyone with a mind of their own (such as yourself) to just sit down and take anything from anyone at all.. and again, i do understand your aggrivation at such replies..

Originally posted by ziggystar60

Originally posted by Full_Vision
No one should ever tell others what to think, what to do, how to act or anything of the sort..and as others here have pointed out as well, its the persons OWN fault if they take random advice without any background or follow up research into said advice..

But isn't this excactly what OzWeatherman said in his OP?

Perhaps you need to read the OP more carefully. Just a suggestion.

Will say this again, i always..always read OPs fully and a few times over if i plan on posting comments to it.. if one doesnt actually read all of a post then their replies tend to be irrelevent.. I was stating the above as in I agree with Oz on it, my apologies if i didnt make that clear in my previous post..

Originally posted by loner007
Well Anti depressents do not work full stop if anything they act just exactly like a placebo does. You want proof here www.newsweek.com... and read more links at the bottom.
I suffer from depression and no amount of "medication" will cure me. I have to come to realise people make me depressed and people not using their brains makes me so angry its beyond a joke. I swear I was born on the wrong planet......

Of course it wont, you dont have depression, you have none of the symptons. Obviously you are ignorant to what it is, or your research is flawed. Simply being angry at people that dont use their brains is nothing caompared to what depression is.

And like I said, yout article also stated this

To be sure, the drugs have helped tens of millions of people, and Kirsch certainly does not advocate that patients suffering from depression stop taking the drugs.

And...

One criticism, however, could not be refuted: Kirsch had analyzed only some studies of antidepressants. Maybe if he included them all, the drugs would emerge head and shoulders superior to placebos.

Hardly, 100% proof

Speaking as someone who has struggled with clinical depression for more than twenty years.....

trying to explain the difference between normal sadness and clinical depression to someone who's never experienced it

is like trying to explain the difference between Aerosmith and Mozart
to someone who is deaf.


Some people respond well to the medication. If so, great. Who are you (speaking generally here) to dictate that's bad? If you think the med is just a placebo effect, then fine. Let the person have their crutch!

Reading this thread has given me hope and despair. Hope because I see a lot of posts from people who recognize that mental disorders do exist, and that some medication does help.

Despair because I see so many posts that argue mental disorders are weak character, laziness, etc.

reply to post by smyleegrl


People who state that mental illnessess are a sign of weakness need themselves examined. The same goes for people bashing medication, because they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. There was a case in Holland some years ago, when a celebrity named Sylvia Millecam died after wrong advice (like not taking meds to treat her cancer). That same kind of ignorance seems to exists on ATS sometimes.

But on a more positive note, I really appreciate that someone who can be considered as an expert on the matter, isn't actually bashing depression meds. It always cheeres me up to see a well-thought post from someone who actually knows what she's talking about.

Hello,
I just want to give some perspective to the people who live in USA. I have not read all the posts, but enough to see how much blind faith some people have towards the pharmaceutical industry(second largest in the world, after weapons industry....we live in a f...up world). But I don't judge those people, because we all just know what we have been thought and what we have learned through our experiences. The problem is that we are thought to think that doctors know whats best for us, but that isn't necessarily true. First of all, in my experience, doctors never treat the cause/root of a problem, but only the symptoms with a "fake" belief that it will cure you . This mentality leads to a dependence towards the pharmaceutical industry, why do you think it's the second largest industry in the world? There are many cases in history where doctors have done things to get more customers, meaning that they made people ill to get more work. What makes people think that this doesn't occur today, just on a much larger scale? If you ignore history, you are bound to repeat the same mistakes again.

Personally I think that the "alpha omega" to a healthy life, is happiness! Learn to love and forget to hate! You will be surprised how well the body works when you are in the state of love and happiness. But this isn't easy in the modern society. Now days we get bombarded with so much negativity, and get filled up with fear. Then your body works against you, and you are much easier to control and manipulate. For these reasons, i don't watch television, because it all effects you, either you like it or not. So it's really important to become more conscious!! I have an advise to everyone, especially people with mental problems such as depression, to read a book that i just recently read. It's called "Need to know? NLP". If you read this book, you will be guaranteed to get a much better and fundamental understanding of how your head works and how to control your subconscious mind in a more conscious way.

I'm Norwegian and my father works a lot in the USA. He works too much. He has a car, house and his own doctor in USA, so in other words he spends a lot of time there. And now, to my point. About 1 year ago my father got really ill, he couldn't sleep much, very high blood pressure and was feeling depressed. So...he went to his American doctor, because he was in the states at the time. When he had finished his appointment, he walked out from the doctors office with prescription drugs prescribed for "3 years". Anti-depressants, blood pressure medicines, cholesterol medicines and heavy sleeping pills. He got a bit scared by the amount of pills he got from his doctor, so he didn't take any because he had his flight back home just a few days later. When he got back to Norway, he went to see he's Norwegian doctor for some consultation. The doctor was shocked to see what his doctor in the stats had prescribed to him! He had no words to describe his despair. He just pointed out how bad the situation in USA has become considering prescription drug. My father hadn't gotten any better, so the doctor told him to just try to relax, and if he would have any problems with that, he could get some sleeping pills 1/3 of the strength compared with the American ones. He followed his advise and got back to normal(healthy).

As mentioned a couple of times here; people need to educate them self's! So that you can make your own choices, based on your own conclusions. If you leave everything up to anyone who say they supposedly know what's better for you than yourself, then you are bound to get taken advantage of. An example of this, is what i just wrote about my father. He didn't take those pills because he had just enough common sense to know better. If he had followed his American doctor's advise, he probably would have had bigger problems today with many more doctors visit's.

I hope this text has a positive effect on people, since it's meant to be helpful

No but definitely stop with the cookies.

An immaculately dressed mother came in followed by two well behaved boys who settled quietly down while their mom was engaged in a very long phone conversation.
She stopped long enough to order the children each a slice of snickers pie and a coke.
After 30 minutes, mom was still so involved in passionate calling she did not notice her sons running helter skelter through out the restaurant, bumping off walls, chairs and patrons. Surveying the damages while paying her check she gave me one of those apologetic smiles..."kids." she said.

Sugar causes temporary insanity.
Look at alcohol which converts to sugar in your body -makes people crazy. No health measure is complete without first checking to see if the cause of your insanity is not simply intolerance to sugar.
If only you could ask Gloria Swanson who wrote the forward for an old book called Sugar Blues. After reading an early issue I ordered a copy and was surprised to notice her scathing forward comparing sugar to poison was dropped and the whole book was changed to reflect a friendlier stance toward the sugar industry. Truthfully this was a little scary to me and a subtle wake up call that everything is not as it is necessarily portrayed or "sold." For truth, sometimes you need to dig back in time to when we were idealistic and still told the truth.

And last...back in the 80's I had this counter culture friend who turned me on to the Kushi Institute and Macrobiotics. www.michiokushi.org...
In 2000 I met a lovely girl (dating a sheik in South Beach) from Mass who told me she and her mother both visit the Institute regularly after it cured her grandmother's cancer.

Here is the reason this diet is successful in ridding the body of cancer.
(I don't suggest anyone try this at home)

1. This diet allows nothing adverse to the body to enter the body.
Everything you eat is equally balanced in a "acid vs alkali" way in both content and preparation.

2. Since it is true you are literally "what you eat" your body eventually is forced into balance.
Dis-ease means your body does not enjoy the natural inclination toward ease (or balance) Something like a monkey wrench is in the works.

3. As your body is brought into balance, disease cannot survive in it and disease moves on.

Not to build false hopes this cure is not miraculous and cannot work in every case, some cancers are too forwardly aggressive to be helped with a slow cure. It is helpful to be aware of should you have a family history and would like to know of preventative measures.
As bland and foreign as this diet may be for most of us it does not need to be rigorously followed forever (this is I think the beauty) but to restore balance and then you can drop it for a while.

Now if we have a diet that can prevent or cure cancer why are we spending fortunes on cancer research and wearing pink ribbons and no one is telling anyone enmass there is this rate of success with dietary changes?
It is a little frightening to me. A little too organized.
Even the Institute itself has turned into a moneymaking enterprise but they get away with the ridiculously high prices because it works.

It has to be FDA and medical doctors, insurance and hospitals, those who sell harmful digestible s and those who treat the repercussions that keep this well documented and researched "cure" silent and the pink ribbons flying. It is very scary to me. A cure would dry up "a mother load" of funds already directed this way in good conscience.

Who are we to deprive folks of their charities?
Course I feel the same way about diabetes.
Get rid of sugar. Sugar is the cause and eliminating it or treating it like the drug that it is...is the cure.
We should know...Food is medicine.

reply to post by rusethorcain


Great post, this brings forward a lot of points I believe people should take into consideration and look further into themselves.

I've never donated to cancer research, no matter how many times I'm asked by the cashier at the register.

I wonder. Where does all that money really go?

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by loner007
Well Anti depressents do not work full stop if anything they act just exactly like a placebo does. You want proof here www.newsweek.com... and read more links at the bottom.
I suffer from depression and no amount of "medication" will cure me. I have to come to realise people make me depressed and people not using their brains makes me so angry its beyond a joke. I swear I was born on the wrong planet......

Of course it wont, you dont have depression, you have none of the symptons. Obviously you are ignorant to what it is, or your research is flawed. Simply being angry at people that dont use their brains is nothing caompared to what depression is.

And like I said, yout article also stated this

To be sure, the drugs have helped tens of millions of people, and Kirsch certainly does not advocate that patients suffering from depression stop taking the drugs.

And...

One criticism, however, could not be refuted: Kirsch had analyzed only some studies of antidepressants. Maybe if he included them all, the drugs would emerge head and shoulders superior to placebos.

Hardly, 100% proof

you forgot to mention some of the studies in which studies didnt get published because they showed data contary to the pharma companies way of thinking.

and dont telll me I dont suffer from depression you dont know me. I have suffered from depression most of my life. you talk about ignorance I suggest you look in the mirror to see who is the ignorant one.
and another thing look up a thing called placebo effect.....

[edit on 24-2-2010 by loner007]

Originally posted by loner007
and dont telll me I dont suffer from depression you dont know me. I have suffered from depression most of my life. you talk about ignorance I suggest you look in the mirror to see who is the ignorant one.
and another thing look up a thing called placebo effect.....

[edit on 24-2-2010 by loner007]

Ignorant? I read your article, I got the facts from your side, how is that ignorant?

Your knowledge of depression is quite contrary to the symptons that are well known. Thats why I would assume you didnt have depression. I may be mistaken, but thats how I see it.

Considering you have had it most your life, shouldnt you try and treat it? I had it for 5 years, and after a one year course in medication, ciombined with 5 weeks psychotherapy, im all better.

Obviously your ways arent exactly doing you much good at the moment

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by loner007
Well Anti depressents do not work full stop if anything they act just exactly like a placebo does. You want proof here www.newsweek.com... and read more links at the bottom.
I suffer from depression and no amount of "medication" will cure me. I have to come to realise people make me depressed and people not using their brains makes me so angry its beyond a joke. I swear I was born on the wrong planet......

Of course it wont, you dont have depression, you have none of the symptons. Obviously you are ignorant to what it is, or your research is flawed. Simply being angry at people that dont use their brains is nothing caompared to what depression is.

And like I said, yout article also stated this

To be sure, the drugs have helped tens of millions of people, and Kirsch certainly does not advocate that patients suffering from depression stop taking the drugs.

And...

One criticism, however, could not be refuted: Kirsch had analyzed only some studies of antidepressants. Maybe if he included them all, the drugs would emerge head and shoulders superior to placebos.

Hardly, 100% proof

I'm not going to go into the whole 'what depression is' argument, because I've never suffered "chronic depression."

But looking over your posts, you come across strongly as a negative person. If you suffer from depression, perhaps changing your thought pattern here and double checking yourself to make sure you stay optimistic will undoubtedly help your situation.

As a poster noted several pages back, a persons life style and thought pattern are culprits of depression, and to cure the depression you need to make adjustments in these areas, rather than taking medications which allow you to be 'happier' while continuing the same lifestyle and thought pattern that put you in that 'depression' in the first place.

While I'm not going to argue if that's the soul cause or not, I am going to say I think it's definatly a contributing factor and you could make it easier for yourself by keeping your thought pattern on track.

So I'm just saying, rather than being all negative, hostile and with every other post and becoming hostile to other members that don't always mean to be offensive; try being more optimistic and constructive.