Eating Alices Cookie didnt take me to Wonderland. Stop telling people to avoid medication!!!

In some respects Oz, I agree with you. Those respects are driven by the fact that I'm asthmatic and have diabetes, and having died once from a particularly bad asthma induced event, and been resussed, I can say I'm damn glad that the doctors are doing a good job on keeping me going!

In other respects though, I have my reservations.

My doctor once prescribed me a form of penecillin for an infection - at the age of 26 - despite the fact that I told him I was allergic to it and hadn't had any of the stuff since I was first found to have a reaction to it at 4 years old - because he believed I'd have "grown out of the allergy". Sounded reasonable so I went along with it. The subsequent ride in the ambulance and hospital stay proved both him, and my assumption about his opinion, wrong.

The bottom line is, I think, that you have to respect a medical opinion, but at the end of the day you need to do what you consider to be effective too. After all the only person living in your body (unless you are scizophrenic) is you. Sometimes doctors do make mistakes. Sometimes the power of the mind can be more effective than any medicine, and sometimes alternative therapies and treatments are fantastically effective.

In short - I don't think people should advise anyone to avoid the medical profession. Instead, people should be advised to question it and make sure they get all the facts and are happy with the answers before committing to something.

Originally posted by neformore
In short - I don't think people should advise anyone to avoid the medical profession. Instead, people should be advised to question it and make sure they get all the facts and are happy with the answers before committing to something.

If i may offer my opinion in reply to this, i hope you don't mind.

I cannot speak for Oz, but my problem with peopel offering medical advice on ATS is that this website can attract those with specific mental problems. Consider for a moment those who have posted on this forum with very clear paranoid delusions. I even remember one thread where someone posted some really weird stuff and then admitted they had previously been diagnosed with paranoid delusions!

Even after they admitted this people were posting new age rubbish about healing and some people wre playing into the delusions. This can be enormously dangerous, not just for the sufferer but anyone around them. I remember one of these threads i got incredibly angry because people were perpetuating some really delusional beliefs. i cannot describe how dangerous such actions can be and i'm very passionate about it after dealing with people with schizophrenia.

Why people don't consider their actions i am not sure. Maybe they themselves are delusional and honestly think that something like scizophrenia can be solved with diet, homeopathy or meditation. As the old saying goes, the road to he is paved with good intentions.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Thing is this - who is to say that a specific remedy won't work on someone?

What you refer to as "posting new age rubbish" might actually be of benefit to someone.

I have a friend who cured someone of cancer by using homeopathy and a diet change. Is that "new age rubbish"?

Was it the remedies that worked? Maybe it was the change of diet? Maybe it was the fact that the person believed the remedies and change of diet would work that helped them?

Maybe it was a combination of all the factors. Either way they are still very much alive and 100% free of cancer to this day.

Makes you think though, doesn't it?

Originally posted by GrumpyBadger
To the original post, could you please tell me what tests doctors and so called professionals use to test for hormones and chemical imbalances in the brain. The actual name of the test please, if you do not mind.

Im not sure what the test, or the questionnaires are called. One was from the mental health care doctor, and one was from the psychologist

Its actually more a question fo the symptons. I believe the tests are taken from actual scientific observations of brain patterns, and the behaviour associated with them, and people in with alleged depression.

Well, as it seems my input here on this thread specifically are being ignored/avoided or whatever the case may be i dont really expect a reply or anything at all, but regardless, wished to say this on the topic.. Oz, you have made a number of comments to people here who claim you are incorrect in certain assumptions, and claim that mental issues can certainly be over come without meds which a great deal of the time are shown to cause more problems then they in fact help (a good friend has been in the medical profession for some time now and has discussed many things hes witnessed and/or noticed in that time with me, patterns that has caught his attention and has even made him recently consider a drastic change in professions) and your comments are pretty typical really: such as telling others that have given their opinions on the matter at hand that they obviously do not know what they are talking about, and obviously have not been through situations similar so they should in fact, in your own words 'sit down and shut up' So what happens when someone (such as myself) HAS had to deal with a similar situation, including post-natal depression that was very severe at the time, is opposed to your comments and theories ? and why is it we all know nothing and you seem to think you know such a great deal? you have no idea what many members here have been through, have learnt and studied etc.. many seem to know far more than you care to notice i guess ..
last post to this thread because it really is just running around in a circle or pointlessness. No one should ever tell others what to think, what to do, how to act or anything of the sort..and as others here have pointed out as well, its the persons OWN fault if they take random advice without any background or follow up research into said advice.. granted the mass populace cant overly think for themselves these days sadly, so at the very least it may just help out natural selection lol..
As to other members here who have wondered why there is such ....hostility on this thread..i would have to say its to do with the tone and manner in which the OP came across..
Everyone is different in all ways, and what works for some will not and does not work for others, i do understand this.. and as i said before in previously ignored posts, i do not disagree with you entirely.. just the way you have presented your opinions i suppose.
life and happiness to all.. im out.

Originally posted by neformore
I have a friend who cured someone of cancer by using homeopathy and a diet change. Is that "new age rubbish"?

Diet changes can have real benefits. Homeopathy has o proven benefit, at all. It could easily be said the person spontanesuoly recovered. It could also be said that the belief of recovery is in itself a powerful factor. Those with a positive belief have been shown to recover faster and more succesfully than those with a negative outlook. Maybe their belief it would work was the key.

Examples of this are studies where acupuncture is used to treat arthritis. If you tka e genuine acupunturist and ask them to treat it then the patient gets better. If you ask the same acupuncturist to apply the needles to random areas you find the same results.

Originally posted by neformore
Was it the remedies that worked? Maybe it was the change of diet? Maybe it was the fact that the person believed the remedies and change of diet would work that helped them?

Maybe it was a combination of all the factors. Either way they are still very much alive and 100% free of cancer to this day.

Makes you think though, doesn't it?

It absolutely makes me think that the power of the mind is incredible. However i will not accept that it can fix scizophrenia by just believing or clinical depression, like i described with my aunt by just believing.

I respect the placebo effect, it is documented. I also rely on documented evidence when we talk about anti-depressants.

reply to post by Full_Vision


I value your opinion actually, but the thing sthat have got me so worked up are comments are things such as "you are just upset" or "people with depression are retarded". Its quite obvious these people are mostly concerned that big pharma is a sham, and for the most part have not even the slightest idea, or have ever experienced anyone with the illness. Dont you think that claiming that we are simply just sad, is an unfair assumption?

Natural remedies are fine, Ive never said otherwise, and Ive mainly avoided that topic as like many other posts here, its not the topic of the thread.

Ive only been aggresive because I have strong feelings about people avoiding medication for the sole reason of them having a pre notion that they are placebos, or something elese. Its fine to have that opinion, but most of those comments come back with something which is disrespectful to us that have used medication and gotten better.

If you dont think I have the right to defend myself then fine, but dont expect me to sit back and take it when someone claims im just retarded because they think depression is just being sad

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I concur that depression is very very real, and certainly nothing to be scoffed at.

I have a six month hole in my memory in 1999 that is testimony to the argument, and anyone who wants to argue with me that my experience wasn't real, or that I'm "retarded" is more than welcome to try it, but will find themselves sadly lacking.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Its quite obvious these people are mostly concerned that big pharma is a sham, and for the most part have not even the slightest idea, or have ever experienced anyone with the illness. Dont you think that claiming that we are simply just sad, is an unfair assumption?

But isn't it possible that many people have dealt with the very same issue, or possibly even worse issues without medication?

It might be difficult but in the long run wouldn't it be better to deal with something without becoming dependent on medication?

I have a problem with medication for psychological issue for 2 reasons.

1. People feel like they have no choice.

You DO have a choice. You shouldn't take any drugs you don't want to take.

2. People get dependent on drugs.

Regardless of whether you use drugs for recreation or medication it is bad to repeatedly take the same substance.

Originally posted by Jezus
But isn't it possible that many people have dealt with the very same issue, or possibly even worse issues without medication?

Yes, it is, but Im refering to the people who are making assumptions based on it, without the issue. There are many people that have come on here with differing views to my side, and they have not felt the need to slander us that had/ have it.

It might be difficult but in the long run wouldn't it be better to deal with something without becoming dependent on medication?

In some cases, yes I suppose it would. Buit like I said before its not the topic of the thread. Although I I will admit to have defended my opinion

people have a choice. You shouldn't take any drugs you don't want to take.

I agree, i have said that a number of times

2. People get dependent on drugs.

Regardless of whether you use drugs for recreation or medication it is bad to repeatedly take the same substance.

Also agree, but in some cases, these medications are beneficial. However, they are occasionally difficult to come off. Maybe I was lucky, but Ive had no problem coming off a years supply of my mirtazapine (mirtazone). In fact Im glad I dont have to take them anymore now

Big Pharma...

you really trust them and the doctors?


You have no idea the insidious lies that these corporations put up.


In my life, I have never eaten a single pill of Tylenol or Advil. I never even took aspirin because I used to live in the most rural area you can think of.


Claritin didn't help my "allergy" (as claimed by the physician) at all.


In general, I don't take medicine. I haven't got a fever in 8 years. I do have some other chronic problems but medicine only made the problems worse.






Throughout the 20th century, bigpharma has continuously introduced dangerous medicine and protected themselves by buying off the government and media. It's how they work.



Btw, for every good doctor there's one that shouldn't be a doctor.

Originally posted by Full_Vision
No one should ever tell others what to think, what to do, how to act or anything of the sort..and as others here have pointed out as well, its the persons OWN fault if they take random advice without any background or follow up research into said advice..

But isn't this excactly what OzWeatherman said in his OP?


Perhaps you need to read the OP more carefully. Just a suggestion.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
This first part is an open statement to those people that are telling other members to not take their medication or who are recommending that other members do not trust their doctor or mental health care proffesionals:

STOP IT!!! IT IS COMPLETELY IRRESPONSIBLE TO DO THIS. YOU ARE NOT PROFFESIONALS IN THIS AREA, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DICTATE WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE TAKING AND YOU MAY BE CAUSING OTHERS HARM AND IN SOME CASES, THEIR SUICIDES....SO STOP IT PLEASE

Yes. Oz, it's a great pity that many people with half-baked paranoia-laden ideologically-motivated fantasies like to denigrate areas of knowledge that have been built from the hard work of scientists & professionals who are generally working in the best interests of others.

As an aside, now you've beaten the black-dog, introduce yourself to mindfulness therapy. You'll appreciate it I'm sure.



[edit on 23-2-2010 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin
Yes. Oz, it's a great pity that many people with half-baked paranoia-laden ideologically-motivated fantasies like to denigrate areas of knowledge that have been built from the hard work of scientists & professionals who are generally working in the best interests of others.

It is naïve to think that corporations are working for the greater good.

They are working for profit.

This doesn’t mean they are evil.

It means we shouldn’t assume what they want us to buy is good for us.

Originally posted by Jezus
It is naïve to think that corporations are working for the greater good.

I never even mentioned corporations.

They are working for profit.

I agree.

Originally posted by melatonin
I never even mentioned corporations.

Well unfortunately "the hard work of scientists & professionals" is controlled by corporations.

Originally posted by melatonin
I never even mentioned corporations.

Well unfortunately "the hard work of scientists & professionals" is controlled by corporations.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by melatonin
I never even mentioned corporations.

Well unfortunately "the hard work of scientists & professionals" is controlled by corporations.

Well you have to work for someone right? Unless you are and independant researcher which usually mean people are self proffesed experts in one field or another

I understand what you're saying Oz, and to some extent, I agree.

But, I won't recommend that pharmaceutical drugs be the 1st sign of relief. If it's an absolute must, then sure. But, many things can be treated without the use of drugs and the doctors know this. They have a pill to pop for every single thing, and in a lot of cases, the side effects are a lot worse than what you're taking the pill for.

You have overcome depression thanks to some drugs, and that's cool. That's your experience. Just like some folks will swear by chemo therapy, and others won't. Everyone is different, and hold different experiences.
Depression itself is something that's most times, caused by external sources...and there are many ways of fighting it off, without the use of drugs. Meditation, exercise, staying away from negativity and negative energy are also great ways of dealing with depression. Of course, it all depends on how severe it is, and how much control the person has of being around outside forces that are causing, or adding to this depression.

But, simple facts remain facts. The pharmaceutical industry does not give a damn about curing your ailments. They only with to improve your health. If everyone were cured...they'd make a lot less money!

I used to suffer from epilepsy and have tried 2 different types of medication. Both types had serious side effects, including flu-like symptoms. I used to have a very painful sore throat for sometimes weeks, more severe than I'd have thought sore throats to be, as I've never experienced anything like that from the flu or cold. Not to mention, almost all seizure medication come with severe liver problems, and docs have to do checkups on your liver and other body parts to make sure the medication isn't effing you over. I also started exercising vigorously, as one of the side effects was loss of bone density, and exercise(weight lifting) improves bone density.

After a fews years on the meds, I did some research and read that a few people with epilepsy did away with it, with sheer will-power and state of mind. My epilepsy wasn't severe, and I only got seizures about twice per year, but I was certain that I could have taken this route. I started meditating, eating healthier, getting more sleep building my mind and spirit. I was scheduled for an appointment with my doc, and he gave me a prescription for another helping of Dilantin. Since I started dealing with my problem through other means, I'd never felt better...minus the stinking side effects of the meds. I said f**k it, and didn't refill my prescription and haven't had a seizure since. And that was 4 years ago!

You have your experience, I have mine.

But, thanks for the discussion.

In some ways I agree and disagree with you. One might be able to manage depending on the severity of the problem. I was given large doses of Adderall and other things for ADHD and Bipolar for several years. It literally zombiefied me to the point that creativity was gone, zeal for anything was gone.

My psychiatrist at the time said that it was all trial and error because they didn't know exactly how anti-depressants worked because some people became worse on them while others showed improvement. Adderall for instance made me violent and ill natured. Prozac made me just not care about anything, calm, souless. Some of the others made me extremely sleepy all the time.

It helped me more so to recognize signs of problems upcoming within my own body. It is hard to describe but, I am also pre-diabetic and by the same account I know when my blood sugar is high or low. Meditation and leaving a stressful job that didn't hold my interests helped out so much. I am happy. I know when an episode is approaching and take a long nap to bypass most of it. Other times realizing that if a certain action is taken that it will be regretted later.

One of my good friends is on medication for schizophrenia. He really needs these meds because he will become a danger to himself. He thinks his parents are poisoning him and that Mormons want to kidnap him and are hiding in his house, bushes etc. It sounds kinda funny but, he is frightened out of his mind. There is just no way for him to be off his meds. It is odd though that when he first stops using medication he becomes extremely creative but, it fades within a day or so to madness. On meds he has no creativity.