Eating Alices Cookie didnt take me to Wonderland. Stop telling people to avoid medication!!!

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Thank you for your opinion OP.

I've met people who should be on medication and I've met people who are on medication and shouldn't be.

One of my main goals as a student in Psychology is to help people get better without anti depressants. I was depressed for about 5 years and spent that time looking for a solution. I don't know why I never turned to meds but I didn't. The solution I found was simple. I was upset because I was making mistakes in the way I think.

For example: I was one of those who thought another person could make me happy. Therefore I was constantly seeking a positive sense of self from what others thought of me. I was looking for their approval, especially in personal relationships. Time after time I was let down. The reason I was depressed was because I was looking outside of myself for a sense of self, when the reality is that I already am whole and complete. I need nothing from anyone to be complete.

I would never have realized this if the pain had been numbed. This is just one tiny example of how my pain has led to a change in conscienceless for me.

Also, I wont pretend to know this 100% but I suspect that the "chemical imbalances" scientists speak about are created by us. You can find convincing evidence of this just by thinking about the Placebo Effect. Don't you think it's possible that we are creating the imbalance with stress, negative thinking, fear, etc?

For me, Fear has led to finding new and better ways to think about my place in the world. If I were to numb that fear/depression, I would get no where.

On the other hand, taking said medication could alleviate just enough of said fear to be willing too look at the issues. Either way, I don't think their is an easy answer and I don't think it's as Black and White as you've made it.

I lived with a woman for almost eight years that was undiagnosed depressed and Borderline Personality Disorder.

To say life was interesting would be a gross understatement. It was never boring.

For most of that time, I tried to convince her that she needed to get help. All that did was cause a strain on the relationship because she thought I and her mom, who was telling her the same thing, were trying to drive her crazy. We could see it but she didn't want help. I tried stuff like changing our diet and some of the other things that you get from non medicinal sources to try and correct it. They had varying degrees of effectiveness, the diet being the biggest help. It didn't end the problem though. It just made it a little lighter

Our relationship ended in part due to it.For the first year or so we were broke up, we couldn't even have a conversation. She had gone that far down.

She eventually attempted suicide because things had gotten so bad in her head she couldn't and didn't want to deal with it anymore.

The attempted suicide put her in the hospital where things started to change.

She was diagnosed with the problems she had and started to receive treatment.

She has gone through a lot of different programs, most of which include medication, and she is now a different person. She also had to go through several different medications to find the one that was effective. They all didn't have a positive effect. Some made her almost a zombie.

The medication made all the difference in the world. To talk to her when she is on them, she is a normal person. If she runs out or forgets to take them, I can't speak to her. She is angry, sad, paranoid, depressed and myriad of other things and can go through the whole range in a matter of minutes.

Anyone who thinks that all medication is bad or evil has never had to live with or through the problems that many are speaking of on here.

Yes, there are some natural ways to lessen the effects of these diseases but they are not affective for everyone and they won't cure more severe problems. They may lessen them, yes.

A balance of the two under proper guidance of a medical professional is the only way to go, imo.



[edit on 23-2-2010 by Isthisthingon]

Originally posted by demonseed

Depression is the most retarded symptom i have ever heard of. I am studying psychology at the moment, and so far i have gotten into heated debates with all my teachers, usually ending with them confused and baffled at the truth.

Lets read the symptoms of depression:

"You feel like a black curtain is down on your body. You feel tired and cant concentrate. You are very unhappy about yourself and your life"

Really? Sounds like someone needs to get laid and get and some rest. Medication doesn't substitute natural human instincts.



[edit on 23-2-2010 by demonseed]

As I said previous, I am suffering with bipolar and used to get bouts of depression (along with artifficial highs, where I thought i was invincible - I really cannot begin to explain how it feels) and to dismiss depression as someone who needs to get laid and rest is utterly offensive. Unless you have had it i suggest you DONT comment on how "retarded" it is. It has caused significant heartache to my family seeing how i was for large parts of the last 10 years. And before you say i am weak or anything like that, believe me I am not. Luckily, a medication regime lifted the up and down mood fog enough to allow me to make other changes in my life that helped me back to almost how i was before i was affected by bipolar disease.
I am staggered at your use of "retarded".

reply to post by Dark Ghost


She's heard those things from others many times. But now that she "feels fine" there is "no need for counseling".

The point of my post was to try to make a distinction of when medication is appropriate and when it may not be appropriate.

[edit on 23-2-2010 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Are you a doctor? My aunt would have killed herself if it were not for anti-depressants. She's off them now after extensive counselling, but without the drugs she would never have suceeded with the therapy.

You i believe, like many others, talk from a position of ignorance when it comes to severe clinical depression. Oh and what about schizophrenia? Have you ever had to deal with a schizophrenic who is off his/her meds?

Until you have please sit down and be quiet.

EDIT

You should also be aware that meditation can make certain mental disorders worse!

[edit on 22-2-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Are you a doctor? How do you know your aunt would have killed herself without the drugs? Everything can be overcome with the power of the mind. Explain how meditation makes mental disorders worse, I've actually never heard this before.

Sit down and be quiet? Why? I have a voice here, too. Just because I disagree with your standpoint on terrible pharms, doesn't mean you have the right to tell me to be silent.

[edit on 23-2-2010 by DocEmrick]

Originally posted by DocEmrick
Are you a doctor? How do you know your aunt would have killed herself without the drugs?

Because she talked about it repeatedly and as an adult woman it is a warning sign of impending suicide, she also gave away certain of her prize possessions which is an absolute wanring sign of suicide when you couple it with the depression. The therapist she saw also thought she was at real risk and there was talk of having her committed. Further she has since told us that she is grateful for our encouragment to get help because she had purchased a ton of drugs with the intent to overdose.

Your attempt to turn this around was pitiful.

Originally posted by DocEmrick
Everything can be overcome with the power of the mind. Explain how meditation makes mental disorders worse, I've actually never heard this before.

Really everything? So the scitzophrenics who i used to work with could have just magically made themselves better? Just stopped their drugs and listen to their imaginary devils and you think that would cure them? You obviously have no experience of real mental health issues so when i told you to sit down and be quiet it is because your points obviously come from a position of incredible ignorance and i think they can do a lot of harm.

As for meditation being harmful heres a reliable source.


www.cancerhelp.org.uk...

Generally, meditation practices are very safe and side effects are rare. But people who have any type of mental illness should ask their doctor and a qualified meditation instructor before they begin any meditation practice. This is because some types of meditation can worsen symptoms such as

* Depression
* Anxiety, and
* Speedy mind (mania) and delusions (psychosis)

When you practice meditation you may also see more clearly any anxiety, depressed feelings, or negative thoughts that you have. This can make you feel frightened, low or disorientated. If you feel very anxious after meditating, it is important to tell your meditation instructor, or contact your doctor.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I agree. Although I wouldn't take untested drugs or be part of drugs trials (they wouldn't let me for one) I NEED my medication to survive. If I didn't take my medication, I would die.
Now I'm not talking about a psychological problem here, I'm talking about diabetes. So it's not really the same kettle of fish, but it's the same thing really.
I got flamed for getting the cervical cancer/flu vac's. And yet, if I got hit by flu, I'd be more likely to have serious problems than other people. And frankly I don't want that.
If my meds were switched for something else, I'd be a goner.

It's nice to see someone else who shares my opinions. I know this is a conspiricy site, but with some problems, especially depression and other psychological disorders, I'm sorry but you need to go and see a doctor not listen to people on the internet. If the meds don't work, switch 'em. That's what the doctors are here for.

I've only read a couple of posts here before replying, but I don't believe the OP has cured themselves of depression, and I think the support of modern medicine helps a lot. Even if they are placebos (which I'm pretty sure they're not), if it helps you feel better, do it. I also know someone who committed suicide because of not seeking help over depression, which was absolutely horrendous. So it's pretty clear to me that it's much better to get treatment than not.

I know the big pharmo corps are all about money, especially at the top, but what about the other people who've done a lot of good work and are villified constantly when people forget this? Some people do actually care. I know this especially since I know the pros and cons first hand.

I also know more than most about the downside to meds, especially from the past. So don't hit me with that or I'll start talking about chirality to my hearts content.

Rant over. Thanks for the thread OP S&F.

[edit on 23/2/2010 by Ayana]

reply to post by Skyfloating


I would never say to NOT take medication prescribed by a doctor especially for certain conditions like diabetes and some forms of severe depression. There are new drugs that have helped bi-polar and other depression symptoms, that actually have helped peole live normal lives.
Some people do mistake mild and temporary depression as a condition medicine can help and in those cases it will make the condition temporarily better but much worse when the medication is stopped.

Studies have shown that in cases of mild depression or general malaise diet and exercise along with some counseling can work better, more safely over the long run than meds.

I only say that before even speaking with your doctor try your best to identify what is wrong with you and examine all the possible options available, so what other people have done and how it worked for them. Examine natural methods if they are available and ask people what worked for them....

....So that when you speak to your doctor you have some input. The two of you can have a back and forth conversation.

I see the commercial where 3 people are standing around the medicine isle, one holding Tylenol another with aspirin and the third has ibuprofen lamenting taking such a handful of pills daily DAILY!

Finally only 2 Aleve look pretty good.

And this is for people who have nothing wrong with them!

An old woman I know shes 72. Out dancing every night of the week has a hundred year old mother she visits in Rhode Island told me about a little fruit pectin (the stuff you use for canning fruit) and grape juice. I'll bet the Elations works but this is cheaper and it works.

Apple cider vinegar and honey works on my thumb that will jam up.

Chocolate, nature, my pets and spending as much time as I can alone until it passes is the cure I use for depression (clinically diagnosed in the 80's) Mine is not as severe as others...Sometimes I think I might need drugs but by then it is lifting.

I drink decaf all week and on weekends have a cuppa regular and fly through the house cleaning. I use this like a drug.

The first week after about a month without caffeine, when I had a cup of caffeinated I found myself grinding my teeth, racing, pacing and thought I'd have to take myself into the hospital - from a cup of coffee!

Sometimes your system gets so clogged up with drugs that it is like so many blankets piled on you. Where are you under there? Come out before you smother to death.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Sometimes your system gets so clogged up with drugs that it is like so many blankets piled on you. Where are you under there? Come out before you smother to death.

That's a great analogy.

I was pondering something as I continue reading through this thread. Let's say someone does come onto ATS or any other forum and follows the most popular medical advice given out by members of that forum. Is this a sign of stupidity or is this an indicator of how much people distrust the FDA, big pharma and the medical industry in general? I mean, if you've been through the ropes, been on several different medications, you don't feel like you're getting any better and maybe don't feel like your doctor is really listening to you, I would find it reasonable that one would go online and try things like meditation, changing how you think, maybe a little St. John's Wort or whatever. I think people who are desperate for a solution have a very open mind and are willing to listen and consider just about anything.

Having said that, I think this makes it even MORE important that those who would make suggestions to those people would be even more careful about what they suggest. I honestly don't think that those desperate people are stupid, they're just desperate in their situation and if there was a more general trust of the FDA and pharma industries, I don't think this would be as much of a problem. This is the same industry that says vitamins and supplements don't really do much, yet most people know that to be blatantly false.

There isn't that much difference between listening to someone on here who's done the research or doing your own research and coming to a conclusion, is there? Once you've decided that you've had it with the medical industry, all bets are off and your new doctor is the internet and your ability to discern what's the best thing to do and your ability to be honest about your condition. Such is what happens when credibility is lost and people no longer trust the "medical authorities."

Just playing a little devil's advocate.

Originally posted by Fangula
I think it's irresponsible to allow people to be duped into the idea that a medication is going to solve their depression illness. Afterall, when the pills wear off, it's straight back to depression. The pills don't fix the problem, they cover it up and make the crash that much worse when they wear off.

Ive been off it for a a month now, so far I havent had any of the previous feeling I used to have. The pills do not simply cover up the issue, if they did, then I would assume I would be back to my old self.

Again someone that knows nothing about how depression works, or the role of anti-depressents

[edit on 23/2/2010 by OzWeatherman]

While I believe that mother nature provided everything on this earth, that we could EVER need, for ANY condition.... I believe that some of the meds they push DO actually work to correct these imbalances.

reply to post by LostNemesis


Just a side note; most medicines are derived from plants. Like aspirin from willow bark, aloe for burns, etc.

Oh and I guess paramedics do try harder to save your life if you are an organ donor!! HA!

I work in a Hospital & Uni for St John Ambulance service (one of the privately owned ambulance service in WA, and the only), and an after hours GP till all hours of the night, and believe me medication is a tool. It may work on some people, but not everybody is the same and they know that quite well. i can't take paracetamol or anti depressants both have negative effects on my body, (I have to ride out headaches or nap) but it doesn't stop me getting more than 3 different referrals from doctors who have no clue, or just love the money they get from pushing the free samples they are paid to distribute.

I am friends with many doctors both GP & front line, surgeons and health professionals, who I spend most of my everyday with. And believe me you have no clue about how twisted the medical profession is. Do you think a surgeon became a surgeon because they want to help people. No "more like a glorified butcher or Dr death from the backwashes of middle america" (from the mouth of a surgeon to a threat on ats).

Oh and they don't try as much to resuscitate you if you are an organ donor, have witnessed this situation many times and sadly it's life. Just hope we don't end up leaning towards China's idea of organ donation. Steal bread, lose your lungs!!!

Though I understand where you are coming from, you have had positive results from medication, and if you manage to break free from the medication, even better for you. But think about reality before you start on your rant about what other people believe and what some people know as a fact. Your brain is about one in a million. Not all the same like you believe.

Bayer in America infected thousands of people all over Europe with the HIV virus. And they got that simply from being hemophiliac. The US company knowingly sold AIDS tainted product to the french government (who knew that fact) who gave it to the most needy of all people, hemophiliacs. This scandal got swept under the rug in mainstream society but not in the health professional industry. If they are capable of this, what worse could they or ARE they doing without telling us?

www.youtube.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Something interesting - penicillin - the worlds most advanced medical breakthrough came from the aboriginal people of Australia - yet you never hear about that - those crazy aboriginals and their world changing, wound healing fungus.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Ive been off it for a a month now, so far I havent had any of the previous feeling I used to have. The pills do not simply cover up the issue, if they did, then I would assume I would be back to my old self.

Well that is great that it worked for you, but other people would give different advice because of their own experiences.

I would advice ONLY take medication that YOU WANT to take and don't let anyone convince you to take drugs that you don't want to take.

And don't take any medication for a prolonged period of time.

Overall, it is much safer to use drugs in moderation, both recreationally and medically. Getting dependent on any drug is dangerous.

reply to post by 1xion325alpha


Now i've heard how it came from French stable boys who would rub the sadle mould into wounds, but i have never heard of the aborigines using it. Could you provide evidence please.

[edit on 23-2-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

i agree with you, i have a mental illness that i take medication to help manage, without medication i literally lose myself and am prone to self mutilation as well as harming others, medication has helped me gain back some degree of control over myself and my life.
pisses me off that people who dont NEED medication tell those who do that it is evil and not to take it.

Originally posted by 1xion325alpha
Oh and they don't try as much to resuscitate you if you are an organ donor, have witnessed this situation many times and sadly it's life. Just hope we don't end up leaning towards China's idea of organ donation. Steal bread, lose your lungs!!!

My fiance's mum said that. She's head of the nursing department at Lismore Hospital. Certainly made me think twice about donating my organs

To the original post, could you please tell me what tests doctors and so called professionals use to test for hormones and chemical imbalances in the brain. The actual name of the test please, if you do not mind.

Also judging by the past behavior of big pharma, is it any wonder that people are skeptical of the medical machine that makes so much money.