Aliens wrote the Quran? ... Proof it wasn't written by Humans..

reply to post by loOranks


Ok I think we may have had a misunderstanding here, perhaps I jumped the gun on correcting you. When I read your post the first time I read it as you implying that the aforementioned fatwa was indicative of Muslim opinions on the issue which I realize now is not the drive of your statement at all. The tone of the previous and following posts poisoned my thinking a bit. Apologies for that, I fear my quarrel was misplaced.

reply to post by skajkingdom


Thanks Skajkingdom,
I'm really not convinced by using quranic quotes to justify your quranic understanding... I believe that's called circular logic.
Then your so-called 'very long response' is not that powerful neither in my eyes. You mention that 1 and 9 are the first and last numbers, the alpha and omega... what happened to the 0??
Then you say it's indivisible? How so? I can divide it by any number! that it gives a fractionated answer is still an answer and fact that it's divisible, or not?
Then you mention if "you divide with itself, you get 1"... well, that's true ANY number.
etc, etc...

I also find your response on islamic calendars a little weak in all honesty... At the heart of islamic Saudi Arabia, the Umm-al-Qura calendar is still very much in place which doesn't amount to the gregorian 365 days. Now, I think if there is a country bent on studying and practicing the authentic islam, it's the Saudi's!

reply to post by Allar


No problem mate!

Originally posted by loOranks
reply to post by skajkingdom

 

Thanks Skajkingdom,
I'm really not convinced by using quranic quotes to justify your quranic understanding... I believe that's called circular logic.
Then your so-called 'very long response' is not that powerful neither in my eyes.

Well, this was not intended to be read alone, you should read all my previous posts on this.

Look, it doesn't matter why 19. God could have chosen any other number, 7 or 23 or whatever.

The point is: once this number has been mentioned in a specific place - if any system is found which is revolving around this number in the book, then that is no more coincidence.

I don't want to repeat all I have written in previous posts, but have you read some of that stuff?

For example: the first revelation to Muhammad (pbuh) were the 5 verses of chapter 96, which consist of 19 words, from a chapter that is the 19th from the end, and has 19 verses.
RIGHT after revealing this, God revealed the first 30 verses of chapter 74 - ending with these words "Over it are nineteen" - and right after this the first chapter was revealed which beginns with BismillahiRrahmaniRrahim - comprised of 19 letters - the opening statements of chapters in the quran.

You see, it could have been number 23, then God would have revealed the first few verses of chapter 96, comprised of 23 words, then chapter 74 until verse 30 which would have ended with "Over it are twentythree" ... and so on.

Since it is 19 however, and 19 being also the numerical value of "Waheed" - which means ONE (unique) in arabic - then the system must support this number.

Alpha and Omega - I meant 1 and 9 as in "the first" and "the last". If you have some people you will not say to the first in the row "you are the zeroth" you will say "you are the first" - assigning him Number 1, and so on ... The most common practice throughout human history has been to start counting at one.

You are taking the properties of the number one by one - and saying "if you divide any number with itself the result is 1" - but I am not pointing to that alone as a fact, but to all properties of 19 AS A WHOLE.
19 is the ONLY digital prime number the final sum of which gives you at the end 1, and what I meant by indivisible is just what I said - perfect division, not divisable with fractions.

Consider this:

1. The letter count from the beginning of Surat Al-Muddathir (74) up to the end of the word عليها (on top of it or in addition to it) of verse 30 [exactly before تسعة عشر (Nineteen) is mentioned] is 361 letters, (i.e. 19 x 19).

2. The verses of Surat Al-Muddathir are very short, except for one verse that is notably long which is verse no. 31, which delineates the wisdom of choosing the number 19. Verse 31 consists of 57 words ( i.e. 19 x 3).

3. Verse 31 ( which consists of 19 x 3= 57 words) is the last verse in the Quran that contains 19 words or a multiple of 19.

4. The word count of the first 19 verses of Surat Al-Muddathir is 57 ( i.e. 19 x 3). Thus, it becomes clear that the word count of verse 31 of Surat Al-Muddathir which is 57 equals the word count of the first 19 verses.

5. Verses 1 - 30 ( i.e. to the end of عليها تسعة عشر “Above it are nineteen”) have 95 words ( i.e. 19 x 5) .

6. Verse 30 consists of 3 words, عليها تسعة عشر. Therefore, it becomes clear that the number of words of verse 31 (which discusses the wisdom behind number 19) which is 57 words, equals 19 times the number of words in verse 30.

7. .......... this goes way way further, and I only have 4000 characters for a post

This has bothered me enough. What do you guys think?

23:50 And We made the son of Mary and his mother as a Sign: We gave them both shelter on high ground, affording rest and security and furnished with springs.

The Quran supports the "Jesus in Kashmir" theory?

Picture of Kashmir
travellingboard.net...

[edit on 26-2-2010 by d33om]

reply to post by d33om

23:50 We made the son of Mary and his mother a sign, and We gave them refuge on high ground, a place for resting and with a flowing stream.

In the Quran, heaven is often allegorically described as having running springs, lofty abodes, nice furniture, etc.

This verse is only saying that Jesus and Mary were granted entrance into heaven.

It doesn't have to do with a physical area on earth, like Kashmir.

Originally posted by crusaderiam
Yeah it was written by the devil. He isn't human.

All of this information proves it was the Devils work for sure and aliens ARE Demons

Originally posted by Rae1950

Originally posted by crusaderiam
Yeah it was written by the devil. He isn't human.

All of this information proves it was the Devils work for sure and aliens ARE Demons

I lolled @ both of you.

Ah, the old middle-age "it was written by the devil" thing ...

interesting,
except when i get 20 post's i'll put up a bunch of question's that will get everybody thinking.

There are lots of hidden number systems in the Bible, this has been known for 150 or so years in the Engish speaking world, the Bible is full of numbers and meanings backing each value of it self. Does that mean it was written aliens or God? Which God then is right if one has his own order of things when another says it has his own order?

Then add the constellations the larger code which is written in the stars and spans throughout the whole Bible. It can go on and on no doubt so you have to ask which numbers are more evil than others and more holy in connection with the wordly order of creation and design it self.

The Incarnate Son (Virgo - Virgin)...Isaiah 7:14
The Redeemer (Libra - Scales)...1 Corinthians 6:20
The Sufferer (Scorpio - Scorpion)...1 Corinthians 15:55-56
The Conqueror (Sagittarius - Archer)...Revelations 6:2
The Sacrifice (Capricorn - Goat)...Romans 3:25
The Living Water (Aquarius - Water-Bearer)...John 7:38
The Liberator (Pisces - Fishes)...Genesis 48:19; Mark 1:17
The Crowned Lamb (Aries - Ram)...Revelations 5:6
The Judge (Taurus - Bull)...John 5:22
The King (Gemini - Twins)...Romans 1:3
The Protector (Cancer - Crab)...Isaiah 4:5-6
The Victor (Leo - Lion)...Revelations 5:5


www.wordworx.co.nz...

Let's take the number seven as an illustration of the way the patterns work. Seven is the most prolific of the mathematical series which binds scripture together. The very first verse of the Bible "In the begining God created the heaven and the earth" (Gen 1:1), contains over 30 different combinations of seven.

This verse has seven Hebrew words having a total of 28 letters 4 x 7. The numeric value of the three nouns "God", "heaven" and "earth" totals 777. Any number in triplicate expresses complete, ultimate or total meaning.

Also tightly sealed up with sevens are the genealogy of Jesus, the account of the virgin birth and the resurrection. Seven occurs as a number 187 times in the Bible (41 x 7), the phrase "seven-fold" occurs seven times and "seventy" occurs 56 times (7 x 8).

In the Book of Revelation seven positively shines out: there are seven golden candlesticks, seven letters to seven churches, a book sealed with seven seals, seven angels standing before the Lord with seven trumpets, seven thunders and seven last plagues. In fact there are over 50 occurrences of the number seven in Revelation alone.

Divisible by seven

There are 21 Old Testament writers whose names appear in the Bible (3 x 7). The numeric value of their names is divisible by seven. Of these 21, seven are named in the New Testament: Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Hosea and Joel. The numeric values of these names is 1554 (222 x 7). David's name is found 1134 times (162 x 7).

God's seal also pervades creation as though it were woven into the very fabric of nature.

The Bible has declared man's years to be three score and ten (70). The development of the human embryo is in exact periods of sevens or 28 days (4 x 7). Medical science tells us the human body is renewed cell for cell every seven years.

We're told the pulse beats slower every seven days as if it were in accord with the seventh day of rest proclaimed in the Genesis creation week. And God formed man of the dust of the ground (Gen 2:7); science confirms the human body is made of the same 14 elements (2 x 7) found in your average handful of dust.

The light of the sun is made up of seven distinct colours as shown in the rainbow. In music there are seven distinct notes which climax in a chord or octave at the beginning of a new seven.

In almost all animals the incubation or pregnancy period is divisible by seven. Seven is often referred to as "God's seal" or the number of spiritual perfection.

Number of resurrection

Eight is the number of new life or "resurrection". It is the personal number of Jesus. When we add together the letter values of the name Jesus in the Greek we get 888. Jesus was called The Christ, the numeric value of this title is 1480 (185 x 8). He was Saviour which has the value 1408 (2 x 8 x 88).

Jesus is also Lord which again is a multiple of eight being 800 (100 x 8). Messiah has the numeric value 656 (82 x8). Jesus also called himself the Son of man. The term occurs 88 times and is valued at 2960 (370 x 8).

Jesus said "I am the truth": the numeric value of "the truth" is 64 (8 x 8). The last book in the Bible is the Revelation of Jesus Christ which has exactly 888 Greek words. Eight persons were saved in the Ark at the great Noahic flood. God made a covenant with Abraham that every male Jewish child was to be circumsised on the eighth day of his life.

Nine is finality

The number nine is endowed with a peculiar quality, it is finality in itself. Not only is it the final single number, but if you multiply it by any other number, the addition of the resulting figures will always revert back to nine (2 x 9 = 18 / 1 + 8 = 9 etc).

There are nine basic gifts available to the Christian believer through the power of God's Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:8-10). There are nine basic fruits which should be evident in the life of the believer (Gal 5:22-23). The words "my wrath" have the numeric value 999. The word Amen or verily is valued at 99 and occurs 99 times.

The work on the cross was completed at the ninth hour when Jesus said "It is finished". The shedding of his blood was final. It saw an end to the old system of animal sacrifice to atone for sin. The word "blood" in this sense occurs 99 times.

Great superstition has always surrounded the number 13 as being unlucky or dark. Perhaps there is good reason. One of the most convincing proofs of the origins of this number can be found by unraveling all the names by which Satan is known. Drakon or dragon has a value of 975 (13 x 75) and it occurs 13 times. Peirazon or tempter has a value of 1053 (13 x 81). Belial which is personification of evil has a value of 78 (13 x 6).
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As for the koran comapared to the Bible 19 is not mentioned by name a lot but only in calculation in the Bible or it is mentioned. 19 is a very negative number in the Bible but the calculations from hebrew to arabic would give them two different equations anyway and can not be related. but if one says 666 and 13 is divine and the God's good number than you know something is wrong in opinion when concerning relegion and faith.

The Number Nineteen

Nineteen is a number not without significance. It is a combination of 10 and 9, and would denote the perfection of Divine order connected with judgment. It is the gematria of Eve and of Job.

It occurs in connection with Gods judgment or punishment for Adam and Eve's sin in the garden of Eden. It is interesting then to note that it is used 171 times in Genesis. 171 = 9 x 19, judgment and Gods judgment. Further, due to repeat use in various verses it appears in 133 verses in Genesis, 133 = 7 x 19.

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
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[edit on 2-3-2010 by The time lord]

[edit on 2-3-2010 by The time lord]

doesnt seem extraterrestrial.

look closer to home; God is Nature.

If anyone actually searches (e.g. www.islamicity.com...), you'll find that the statistical miracles are wrong. Count the occurences of 'land' and 'sea'. There are a lot more usages of the word 'land' than 13, and I counted 29 uses of 'sea'.

The rotation of the earth verses have been construed. I suggest you read the Quran. All of those scientific miracles have been debunked. It's a matter of looking at things with REASON. The Quran copied Aristotle and Galen and various others, and stole tales from the Bible etc... It even got the Christian Trinity wrong. I suggest you research sites that aren't funded by Islamic sources.

Regards

In fact 'land' occurs much more than 'sea'

I used the Yusuf Ali translation.

I love this topic and I'm very intrigued by everything you've posted, a lot of it is new to me, actually.

But, the Muslims were known for being EXTREMELY advanced people. They had doctors and medical processes while the Europeans prayed to god when they were ill. The Muslims were so far beyond other civilizations the other societies took years just to take one idea from them (triangular sail, astronomical compass(guide by stars)). It wouldn't surprise me if the Muslims had knowledge of many of these things already, which is why I'm almost positive that it was written by Mohammed. Mohammed was a trader, and was exposed to so many ideas. He could have been a genius, and continually contract these ideas, until he ultimately realized he had pure dominance over everyone. Most people know the he claims he was not divine. That he was only a servent of God, and was not to be worshipped. It wouldn't be hard for him to write down everything he had learned, change the voice to make it seem like it was the word of God, and then kill himself, but make it look as if God had him ascend to heaven. Mohammed was exposed greatly the European culture, which was focused mainly on God, which is why it is called The Age of Faith. He would constantly encounter people preaching about God, which explains why he would get ideas such as this in his head.

I just completely lost my train of thought.........crap.

islam is a arab religion

i am not arabic

end of story.

Its funny how everyone gives loads and stars and attention to the words Koran and Alien, put those together and you have one great mass of people all queuing with interest, but say something about Bible evidence and you only get two pages worth of comments. The minds are have been washed into the right right shape to fit into the last days end of world deception.

Originally posted by Mordegast
In fact 'land' occurs much more than 'sea'

I used the Yusuf Ali translation.

So, another one who is counting E N G L I S H words in an arabic qur'an ...?

Oh my ...

You are forcing me to repeat myself (check a few pages back):

You have to count ARABIC words for land and sea, NOT ENGLISH words. What kind of thinking is that? Qur'an was not revealed in english!

Originally posted by BtotheG

It wouldn't be hard for him to ... kill himself, but make it look as if God had him ascend to heaven.

Ahm ... what?

Ascend what?

Muhammad died. And was buried. He didn't ascend anywhere.

Have you actually read these posts?

Why does Qur'an bring up a CHALLENGE to ALL MANKIND to produce a book like it?

Has anyone tried this?

Has anyone for 1400 years succeeded in meeting the challenge?

If Muhammad just made the Qur'an appear like it was from God, and he was a "genius" as you say, how come with all these scientists, philosophers, thinkers, gurus, students of divinity, astronomers, biologists, mathematicians and hippies for that matter - there never EVER was at least one who managed to produce a book like it?

How much a genius would one have to be to EXACTLY predict the future?

How can Qur'an claim (chapter 111) that Abu Lahab will go to hell, TEN YEARS before his death, when there were HUNDREDS of enemies of Muhammed who later converted to Islam?
How could Muhammad have possibly known that Abu Lahab would not be one of those who will later convert?

Unless one was absolutely sure that Abu Lahab will NEVER accept islam, thus dying a disbeliever, Muhammad was risking a momentous humiliation if this prophecy did not come true.

Although Abu Lahab had ten full years to discredit Muhammad, it is interesting to know that he actually never converted to Islam. All he had to do was pretend to have accepted islam and say "I accept Islam" and that would have been the end of Muhammad. But he didn't, and the prophecy came true. Because the prophecy was not a poem from Muhammad - it was a revelation from God.

How could any "genius" in the seventh century have possibly known about the expansion of the universe? Black Holes? Microscopic Embriology? The atomic number of iron?

And regarding Galen (post by the guy above): If Muhammad just "copied" Galen, how come he did not copy Galen's errors? How come the embriology described in the Qur'an is ABSOLUTELY IRREFUTABLY correct and backed by the LATEST findings in modern embriology while Galen IS NOT?

How come Qur'an mentions that Pharaoh had a quarry worker overseer named HAMAN, and people like you (galen guy) LAUGHED FOR YEARS about this "obvious case of Muhammad copying from Bible, but mixing up things" since "pharaoh never had an overseer named Haman, but it was rather a guy thousands of kilometers AND YEARS away" - yet, NOW we know according to the findings in egyptology that the Pharaoh INDEED had a quarry overseer named HAMAN!

So, who is laughing now??



[edit on 3/4/2010 by skajkingdom]

[edit on 3/4/2010 by skajkingdom]

If you are going to try to argue you will absolutely never win. Now it's your turn. Well what now? Why hasn't ANYBODY proven WITHOUT A DOUBT that Muhammad was WRONG?

1 Corinthians 1

Christ the Wisdom and Power of God
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."[c]

20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."[d]

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