Joe Stack Hailed as Hero in American "patriot" resurgence -ABC news

America ain't what she used to be, friend.

We've imported so many European peasants (and lately Third World peasants by the millions) the very concept of Liberty has become alien in its natural home.

This is the true problem we face: speaking magic spells ("oath of naturalization") or mere accidental place of birth (America vs some feudal farmland) does not make an American.

Americans were once Americans by birth - "Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrims' pride" for example.

The preposterour "proposition nation" put forth by the ACLU, ACJ and the neo-cons is revealed as the idiocy it always was by the easy acceptance and cheap excuses the Huddled Masses and their spawn make for "sucking it up" and doing nothing. After all, it's better here than it was in Sicily or Bavaria or Mogadishu or whatever.

So it comes down to us, Sons of the American Revolution and those few immigrants whose blood is compatible with ours, to decide whether the United States government is worth spilling blood.

My judgment is the USA -- i.e., the government and the thundering herds of huddled masses Sheople -- is not worth a single drop of my blood, except in defense of course.

As to this guy with the airplane, he was clearly a broken man that still treasured the state of Liberty our forefathers enjoyed. Faced with the overwhelming and robot-like power of the State, which demands submission or death, he chose death.

Whose to say that is not a very sane choice? My ancestors, who died on both sides of the Battle of Saratoga for example, made a very similar choice under very similar circumstances. The only difference is that today, we are surrounded by

OBEDIENT, COMPLIANT, INEXPENSIVE DRONES who dare not bite the hand that beats them.

Q.E.D. Time to move elsewhere and start from scratch, but where?

Originally posted by elcapitano75
reply to post by WatchRider

 

Yeah, one thing i really find fascinating, is how, there is such a negative reaction among many (often subtle but sometimes obvious) when one tries to quote the words of a founding father, only to be labeled a cook, tea-bag-head, extremist, terrorist etc.

I suppose it all depends on one's point of view.... were their words only contemporary to their time, or are they timeless and universal. I choose to believe the latter.

Because, really, we are still the same people, with the same hopes and dreams of a better way, and those who can't see that, they too are still the same today as they were back then.

I believe we should take some time and write our Southern Law Center and request they provide what they are basing their conclusions on.
it is my opinion this is a complete set up... notice she said Anti-Government Movement... ah!~ that could not be further from the truth.
the Movement as I see it is, the government has over stepped its bounds by murdering 3200 of it citizens on 911., and the people are holding them accountable. and not sure what to make of this So called Hero.. I smell anchovies.

Q.E.D. Time to move elsewhere and start from scratch, but where?

Mars! Follow the leaders

Originally posted by m khan
I don't have any articles to back this up, but you are probably going to find that Joseph Stack wasn't even in the plane. Someone very pointedly claimed to have seen him taxi-ing his plane down the runway, but that could be a plant. We don't know, and might never know what actually happened, but I would put money on a remote control plane. That his house burned down could be to cover up something he knew about government and the web. The "revenge on IRS" line is probably fabricated. What is certain is that the government will use this to crack down on freedom somehow in some way. Crashing a plane into a building does not sound like a logical way to get revenge, unless you are buying into government propaganda and believe everything they tell you about 911.

m khan, a star for you, this is my thoughts on this also. I have heard that two neighbors saw Joe being "helped" to his car, and witnesses at the IRS building saw the plane but no pilot. I would say the house was burnt down to hide something that could no be easily found, records, computer files, photos, and I would bet Joe was either heavily drugged, or just killed, and the plane was most likely flown by remote control.
This "attack" was designed to further advance the tight control TPTB are attempting to force upon us, the American People. Soon everyone with a pilot's licence will be forced to undergo a psych exam, and soon after that a car will be used in a similar attack and then anyone with a driver's licence will have to do this. By this manner TPTB can wed out the dissenters, the Patriots, and the gun owners, you are next, people. It is all about control over us, We the People.

Here is what I think really happened.

It was supposed to be another "false flag operation." Joe was killed, or drugged by operatives, the plane was gassed up without the knowledge of airport personnel, or any record of fuel sold or transferred, and then flown by remote control into the IRS building, the thinking was that this would make Americans remember 9-11, and maybe even Pearl Harbor, and they would see Joe Stack as a "Terrorist," probably connected to the "Patriot Movement," and the "Tea Party Activists." The "Fringe Elements" could then be blamed. But, it backfired big time. The Tea Party people and Patriot people see Joe as a true American hero who gave his life fighting the evil empire that is American government. Meanwhile, the IRS is scared to death, look at how many people are in trouble with the IRS this year! People are openly talking about this, how there is not law that makes them pay income taxes, and I'll bet the Air Force freaked out too...I mean, how could they even defend against something like this? TPTB are running scared, States are openly talking secession, and even armed rebellion....Perhaps this will wake people up to their complacency.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Aziroth
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

You know you might want to get your facts straight, this is the third thread you have posted this on after the facts have come out saying his family was gone before he set the flames; good journalism goes a far way, something the MSM needs to learn too.

Ahh, my bad, I shut the news off after endless hours of the same thing over and over and simply got over it.

Good to know they were safe...sucks that he torched his home...but hey, better homeless than dead I guess.

Still comes to the fact that he attempted to murder innocent people simply doing their 9-5. bury him face down (figure out which ashes are his face), and uninate in the grave. Push some raw sewage in the hole and leave the grave unmarked imo.

and I read the manifesto...I fully agree with everything he said in there...I commend the mans perception...but once your movement turns to murder/suicide (attempted or not), then your life is meaningless.

I wish he never put the manifesto out, because now any serious discussion about his issues is marred with the (attempted) blood of innocents...like talking about purification of our species and new world orders is marred by Hitler.

So in Your opinion the slave driver beating his slaves during the early 1800's was innocent and just doing His job when the slaves revolted? What about the slave owning family that lived off of the blood and sweat of other? Those slave holders were innocent according to You because it was 100% lawfull according to the laws of that time?

Nothing has changed since then except for the time and the jobs We do but We are all slaves to be exploited by the political class and the welfare class..... So if You are one of the MINORITY actually forking over money each year to support the rest then You could sympathize with Joe Stack. If You are the majority whom suppress the MINORITY (Tax Payer) then more than likely You will call the oppressors innocent people just doing their 9-5.

reply to post by autowrench


I don't know, I'm just not feeling it about this. I mean, if this really was going to be a false flag, why target the IRS? If they wanted to gain more sympathy, why not say, target a baby milk factory, just for an example. And along with a lot of casualties to really get the ball rolling.

Although i am not totally convinced, i don't know i just can't believe they would think this would help them. If they couldn't see how this would backfire, then they really are that stupid? I'm just not feeling it this time.

reply to post by autowrench


Don't think so. Even so, the problem is, people will think in line with what affects them the most. You can't cover up real problems they have with such false flag events, no matter how hard you try. The real danger of starvation and turning into paupers is stronger than fear from suicide bombers. With this act of Joe Stack, the threshold has been crossed and illusions of such "threats" will lose power, especially because this kind of threat is aimed at the authorities and not at the population. I agree that, if there is an attack on civilians, that will probably be false flag operation.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
***snip***
and I read the manifesto...I fully agree with everything he said in there...I commend the mans perception...but once your movement turns to murder/suicide (attempted or not), then your life is meaningless.

I wish he never put the manifesto out, because now any serious discussion about his issues is marred with the (attempted) blood of innocents...like talking about purification of our species and new world orders is marred by Hitler.

On the other hand - his manifesto is very much like the dribble one can read as the reasoning behind Osama bin Laden, Rote Armee Fraction, Baader-Meinhof etc.

When will Americans realize that the society they have is a direct function of the people they put in Power (remembering that this unrest hasn't started after Obama got elected but rather years and years before.)

AND the state of the Union is not less a function of The American Dream, where you pursue your happiness by stepping on others while climbing the ladder.
The poor are poor because they don't want to work?
Crap!
They are poor because some people like to keep them that way. Not the govenment but rather the corporations that suck them dry.

The American Dream where overly rich people flaunt their riches by buying a $10,000 suitcase, $15,000 evening dresses they wear once while millions have less than it takes to fend of starvation.
Living in mansions with 35 bedrooms when all they have is themself and a mistress.

The American Dream is to sue the shirt of someone who is only doing his job. Where a doctor who rescues a dying man run the risk of a law suit if the man ends up paralyzed in one arm in stead of dead.

And reading about founding fathers fighting an oppressive government is a validation for domestic terror actions conceiled as a heroic battle against weasther mills. HA!

You are not oppressed by your government. You are oppressed by the corporate laws that you have allowed to evolve into battle stations against fairness and justice.

You pay billions every year for the right to be turned down by your insurrance company because they have loopholes that bails them out.

That's not government. That's those of you who live the American Dream to the fullest.

etc.


My only problem with this is that my country is going the same way albeit at a slower pace.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Heroes are exactly the opposite. They are the ones who see through the fog of frustration, the pain of disappointment and are motivated by a hope that is enduring.

Nothing could be further from the truth Hunka, hence the saying “One man’s hero is another man’s villain.”

What makes a person a hero to others is not the level of hope that the hero portrays but the level of hope that they give to other people who find hope in and through the actions that causes that person to be a hero in their perspective.

Joe Stack is a hero to people who fear that no one ever is going to be able to challenge or stand up to an all intrusive, all powerful Federal Government run amuck on its own self sustaining and ever increasing power.

Joes Stack is a villain to people who place a premium on the rule of law and the sanctity of life no matter what the quality of that rule of law is or the quality of life a person enjoys under it.

Its all a matter of perspective and the truth is just like you can’t make someone like broccoli which is all a matter of perspective you can’t dictate to people who is a hero and who isn’t a hero because it is a matter of personal perspective in the eyes of the beholder.

Beauty always dwells within the eyes of the beholder.

The truth is some people see hope in change in a trite and superficial politician named Barack Obama who says a lot of meaningless things to people desperate to hear those things.

Some people see hope and change in someone like Joe Stack that lone wolf crying in the wilderness willing to commit his very life to make a political statement.

Both types are bound to be disappointed.

Here is a hint for you personally Hunka, real Americans and real human beings don’t like being told what to think and how to react, they like to utilize something called freewill.

It’s one think to express your views as that is very American and very human, its another thing to demand that people share them. That isn’t.

He is not a hero in my opinion. He killed an innocent person. He also murdered himself, which is a wicked sin, and one that cannot be repented of. To kill oneself is a one-way ticket to Hell with no escape and no remedy.

Originally posted by Just the Truth
He is not a hero in my opinion. He killed an innocent person. He also murdered himself, which is a wicked sin, and one that cannot be repented of. To kill oneself is a one-way ticket to Hell with no escape and no remedy.

Only because the Devil-Incorporated thinks your death belongs to Him!

Satan's propaganda.

Originally posted by DangerDeath

Originally posted by Just the Truth
He is not a hero in my opinion. He killed an innocent person. He also murdered himself, which is a wicked sin, and one that cannot be repented of. To kill oneself is a one-way ticket to Hell with no escape and no remedy.

Only because the Devil-Incorporated thinks your death belongs to Him!

Satan's propaganda.

That's Bible. Murder will exclude anyone from Heaven, and suicide is self-murder with no hope of repentance. To die in one's sins means Hell.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

oe Stack is a hero to people who fear that no one ever is going to be able to challenge or stand up to an all intrusive, all powerful Federal Government run amuck on its own self sustaining and ever increasing power. Joes Stack is a villain to people who place a premium on the rule of law and the sanctity of life no matter what the quality of that rule of law is or the quality of life a person enjoys under it. Its all a matter of perspective and the truth is just like you can’t make someone like broccoli which is all a matter of perspective you can’t dictate to people who is a hero and who isn’t a hero because it is a matter of personal perspective in the eyes of the beholder.

Why would someone consider someone who acts out in violence to be a hero? Because those people who do, cannot think beyond what they have been taught to accept. They believe that the only way to get something done is through violent actions. They may not want to participate or enact the violence themselves, but when someone else does, that is just fine with them because it is all they know.

Yes, our nation is supposedly the land of the free and the home of the brave as the result of some violent members of society not too long ago. Those people have gone down in history as patriots and American heroes. Everything they have accomplished is now tainted with innocent blood and the repercussions of those actions have come home to roost. Now the cycle begins again.

There are those people that see what was done by Stack as criminal and they don't agree with it one bit. Yet, they have no solution as to how to change things themselves. They are hoping that the rule of law and our elected leaders will save the system and bring us back from the brink of disaster. So they'll go about their daily lives and condemn those people who believe Stack has done the right thing.

Then there are those very few individuals who know that the cycle of violence has got to stop. They know that looking beyond it and realizing that there is a better way is the only way forward. These people are busy straining their brains to formulate a plan that will not only achieve what is needed but will not repeat the steps of past revolutionaries. A way forward that is absolutely brand spanking new and victimless.

What is that plan? Oh, we'll have to wait and see wont we, but I'm working my friend.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by jackflap]

Originally posted by Just the Truth

Originally posted by DangerDeath

Originally posted by Just the Truth
He is not a hero in my opinion. He killed an innocent person. He also murdered himself, which is a wicked sin, and one that cannot be repented of. To kill oneself is a one-way ticket to Hell with no escape and no remedy.

Only because the Devil-Incorporated thinks your death belongs to Him!

Satan's propaganda.

That's Bible. Murder will exclude anyone from Heaven, and suicide is self-murder with no hope of repentance. To die in one's sins means Hell.

Excuse me, but isn't the humanity already excluded from the Heaven? By the very God who demands... I'll give you one illustrative example:

In order to see one film, or read a book, to gain a bit of knowledge, thousands, millions of individuals must work several hours or days, each, to "deserve" this personal improvement "in their own sweat". What a farce!

What an enormous loss of energy. On a planetary grand scale! This is the system that rules this Hell!

This concept of "exchange" is devised by Devil himself (who is also known as God). So, all that lost energy "feeds" this Devil (profit) and makes him stronger through insane belief that it will actually set people free of "sins" and launch them to some imaginary Heaven, where milk and honey flow in abundance.

How naive and insane and rotten... actually. Think about it.

Originally posted by m khan
It is illegal by the way to tell people not to join the army, but it probably isn't illegal yet to tell people they shouldn't be paying taxes, but it might be used as an excuse to send out the tanks if enough people refused to pay their income taxes. And it will certainly get you thrown into jail if you can't convince a Jury that income taxes are unconstitutional, which they are

[edit on 20-2-2010 by m khan]

Is it illegal to tell people not to join the army? Dang. I break the law every time I discuss the murdering military with my boys then.

ABC lies. ABC would like for people to THINK the American Patiot movement thinks he is a hero.

I'm a patriot, and he's not a hero in my book. Suicide means you go to Hell, number one. Number 2, he killed innocent people. For what? Because he was mad that the IRS was going to take his material wealth from him. Well, I'd be mad too, but what makes his wealth more important than the lives of the innocent people he killed?

Plus, he is making the Patriots look bad.

The only possible good thing out of it is that it kind of looks like the IRS drove the guy nuts, and the IRS is good at doing that kind of thing.

I'd blame the IRS as much as Joe Stack, but both are guilty.

reply to post by TheCoffinman


well, i guess you're right.

We should bring McVeigh back to life...stop the pursuit of Osama Bin Laden, and guess what? Obama wasn't pal'ing around with terrorists! He was pal'ing around with AMERICAN PATRIOTS!

Obama was friends with a hero!

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


So i am curious(please do try & answer this):

What do you think of these people??

Do you sympathize with their frustrations as well?

American society is now as unstable as it was in the 1960's. Riots and clashes between civilians and the police/national guard/military had become more frequent. Generations became alienated from one another. There were the assassinations of national leaders like the Kennedys and Martin Luther King. As a country we felt leaderless and divided.

Then, it was often the people who have now become tea party advocates who represented the forces of the status quo, against the rising forces of change, represented in large measure by the more liberal younger generation.

Now the country has swung so far back to the right that we have the ultra-conservatives rebelling against the conservative status quo, as well as against the liberals.

I do not see killing innocent employees of the IRS with airplanes as anymore admirable than trying to blow up the Mobil Oil Building in the 1960's (which ended in some innocent deaths).

Somebody on the Senate floor should get up and say the famous words, "If we all don't hang together, we will surely hang separately."

An unstable country is not desirable on its own account.

The end of a revolution may not be foreseen by those who begin it.

I'm sure the salaried and tax paying accountants, secretaries, receptionists, janitors, etc. probably didn't appreciate the attack.

I am sure plenty of them understand the same financial strain he did, but weren't willing to kill random people to fulfill this pain.

I guess to be a hero is subjective, just as pain is.