China DEMANDS!

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Bad thing is, that there is an impending economic, should I say, deflation, of the Chinese economy (soon).

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but for sure soon, the bubble that is the "Chinese Boom" will pop.

Lets look at places like Indonesia or Malaysia as examples. Multi-national corporations come in, exploit everything exploitable, and then move along to the next nation. China is no different really, just a place to exploit for profit.

This is why I am advising anyone considering investing in Chinese ventures to please reconsider as it could ruin you financially. The returns may look great today, but tomorrow they will look less and less as great. Then eventually they will turn into losses as investors begin to take their capital and invest it in other emerging markets such as African nations, or even back into the "re-emerging" western economies that are on the rebound. Hell even India looks more promising IMHO right now.

The Chinese economic boom is winding down now, and despite a few minor temporary spurts, it will eventually cool off and be forced to find a sustainable and reasonable economic growth level.

No, rather than dropping your $$$ into something that is quickly becoming higher risk (China), it is perhaps more prudent to invest these funds in places that have a lot of room for growth. The Western nations, especially the USA, have a large # of unemployed people who are capable of a lot of skilled jobs.

And now that the wages/standards of living have been driven downwards sufficiently, I believe that investing in the USA (Or most western European nations) is a good lower-risk investment. At least for a few days/weeks lol.

Also on a secondary note, since we are talking about economic scams and swindles on the unsuspecting investor, than I would also like to add my assessment of the Gold and Silver markets. Especially Gold.

hmm, you seem to speak in statements that you dont back up. what is the reason investors would leave China? or how are emerging African markets better than Chinese market? in saying "even India looks more promising" you put India`s potential lower than that of African nations. why?? also do "western nations" really have "more room for growth"? American market is overstaurated. what about an emerging middle class in China? their drive to consume?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Don't you know that China is no more a Communist oppressive government?....

Don't you know that China is now a FREE Capitalist nation?.....

(I know it's not you, I am just talking about the people who claim this)

Well, at least this is what some people have been claiming about China....

Tibet was an independent country, and China took over it and now they claim it belongs to them...

The same thing is happening with Taiwan...

China is still an oppressive Communist regime, they only realized that to survive they needed to use Capitalism....

Many other oppressive regimes have also used Capitalism, even though they hated Capitalism.

Another example of a Socialist oppressive regime was Hitler's Germany, when the nation was a National SOCIALIST country....

Hitler hated Capitalism, and he spoke about "the working people and the regime fighting against the rich" and "to find equality for all"...or at least for the "supreme race"....

Those people who are going to claim the U.S. has taken over Iraq have no idea what they are talking about...

Most of the tribes in the region of Iraq, and surrounded areas have been fighting against the same Islamic extremists that the U.S., and allies have been fighting....

The U.S. doesn't claim Iraq as part of the U.S....and neither does any of the allies who are there, or were there....

BTW, about the "high tech trading" that you mentioned, i remember very well the "high tech trading" with China that Clinton did...

During Clinton's administration China acquired more military secrets from the U.S. than at any time in U.S. history....and much of that was because Clinton sold such secrets...and Clinton also recieved "donations" from Chinese nationals who were directly tied to the CCP...

I see the same thing is going to happen during Obama's administration...

Most Americans seem to have no idea how Clinton got the money which supposedly "made the U.S. a better place to be"... even though it was also during Clinton's administration that he gave the green light to banks to give loans to people to buy their homes, when most of these people couldn't really afford to have a home, and this is part of the reason why we are in the economic mess we are in....

Obama, and his administration are going to do the same thing Clinton did...they are going to sell our military secrets, at least those which the Chinese didn't get during Clinton's administration, to try to give a temporary bump to the U.S. economy....

But at the end of course this is going to bite us in the behind...

[edit on 19-2-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Americas power has gone to its head(and its peoples reading some comments here...).

Even the picture released by the WhiteHouse implies a dominant Obama dictating to a subservient Dalai Lama....

Yet America bowed to Chinese pressure and did not meet him in the Oval Office.....


Could this be because, unlike the OP,America also knows the the importance of good relations with China and cannot bully them as America does sooooo often around the World??



Yup....the times they are a changin'.....and I for one am enjoying it!!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Thanks for your cheery picked news articles from twelve months ago ??

Please show some balance - the US is living off debt, has been for almost twenty years - no production, working class almost entirely destroyed.

You have unfunded liabilities in the order of 60 trillion dollars - you already have the worst unemployment record in the western world, and are about to head over a cliff as benefits end.

America has the strictest trade imbalances, tariffs, and protectionism of any country on earth and defends that to the death - literally. The US has also been the master on market dumping, illegal resource access WAR (Congo, Rawanda, Darfur, Guatemala, Nicaragua, etc). So please leave of off the rhetoric about China.

If Asia decided to stop helping America then the US would simply fall off a cliff - pure and simple - in return for saving your arse they are asking for some respect - you show NONE - and for a country that is surviving on handouts from Asia thats pretty appalling.

Time to take stock of how genuinely sick your country - it is your country that caused the global world financial crisis and we are paying for it - so a little bit of humility wouldn't go astray.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Don't you know that China is no more a Communist oppressive government?....
Don't you know that China is now a FREE Capitalist nation?.....
(I know it's not you, I am just talking about the people who claim this)
Well, at least this is what some people have been claiming about China....

isnt China just nominally communist so that they can keep all that Chinese folk under one flag? a dictatorship that lets everyone make monies. i bet China doesnt give 2 sh*ts about communism.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverseTibet was an independent country, and China took over it and now they claim it belongs to them...
The same thing is happening with Taiwan...
China is still an oppressive Communist regime, they only realized that to survive they needed to use Capitalism....
Many other oppressive regimes have also used Capitalism, even though they hated Capitalism.
Another example of a Socialist oppressive regime was Hitler's Germany, when the nation was a National SOCIALIST country....
Hitler hated Capitalism, and he spoke about "the working people and the regime fighting against the rich" and "to find equality for all"...or at least for the "supreme race"....

i didnt know Chinese were fighting against the rich. i thought they were fighting to become rich.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverseThose people who are going to claim the U.S. has taken over Iraq have no idea what they are talking about...
Most of the tribes in the region of Iraq, and surrounded areas have been fighting against the same Islamic extremists that the U.S., and allies have been fighting....
The U.S. doesn't claim Iraq as part of the U.S....and neither does any of the allies who are there, or were there....

fair enough. i heard some Hawaiians fiercely oppose being another state of USofA.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverseU.S. than at any time in U.S. history....and much of that was because Clinton sold such secrets...and Clinton also recieved "donations" from Chinese nationals who were directly tied to the CCP...
I see the same thing is going to happen during Obama's administration...
BTW, about the "high tech trading" that you mentioned, i remember very well the "high tech trading" with China that Clinton did...
During Clinton's administration China acquired more military secrets from the
Most Americans seem to have no idea how Clinton got the money which supposedly "made the U.S. a better place to be"... even though it was also during Clinton's administration that he gave the green light to banks to give loans to people to buy their homes, when most of these people couldn't really afford to have a home, and this is part of the reason why we are in the economic mess we are in....

how do you know that?




[edit on 19-2-2010 by marsvolta]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Don't you know that China is no more a Communist oppressive government?....

Don't you know that China is now a FREE Capitalist nation?.....

(I know it's not you, I am just talking about the people who claim this)

Well, at least this is what some people have been claiming about China....

Tibet was an independent country, and China took over it and now they claim it belongs to them...

The same thing is happening with Taiwan...

China is still an oppressive Communist regime, they only realized that to survive they needed to use Capitalism....

Many other oppressive regimes have also used Capitalism, even though they hated Capitalism.

Another example of a Socialist oppressive regime was Hitler's Germany, when the nation was a National SOCIALIST country....

Hitler hated Capitalism, and he spoke about "the working people and the regime fighting against the rich" and "to find equality for all"...or at least for the "supreme race"....

Those people who are going to claim the U.S. has taken over Iraq have no idea what they are talking about...

Most of the tribes in the region of Iraq, and surrounded areas have been fighting against the same Islamic extremists that the U.S., and allies have been fighting....

The U.S. doesn't claim Iraq as part of the U.S....and neither does any of the allies who are there, or were there....



[edit on 19-2-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Hmm - still dont know what you are talking about - here you go for the record because of anyone on ATS your random rants in fantasy need to MOST correcting as far as the historical and factual record are concerned -


Taiwan has always been part of China - even the USA recognizes that officially as does the UN - the leaders prior to the communist take over fled there and have setup a defacto Chinese government rule - it was never recognized.

Tibet - are you sure about your story there as well mate - perhaps check before you rant.

Hitler used the term Socialist - yes - but that was part of the propaganda fromt - Hitler despised communism and went to war with Russia - der - he was a national socialist - not a socialist - he believed in germany not the people - hence he was an avid promoter of business at ANY COST - he was a total capitalist - hence why he was allied to the italians and musollini - fellow fascists which is the most pure form of rule by capitalism.

Remember capitalism is not synonymous with democracy - it is the antithesis - and until you work that out you need to stop conflating your random understanding of things. Very frustrating for the rest of us who actually DO KNOW what we are talking about to have to listen to these constant outpourings on unrelated, confused, and generally incorrect musings.

Cheers.

reply to post by benoni


Who has the highest GDP?

Who has the biggest military?

Who has vast oil reserves?

Who has the most military bases in other countires?

Who can strike any country at will?

How long could your country last against America if we really wanted to destroy you?



Let it go to our heads Hmm. I think we need to show the world again who is the the leader and who is the follower the subjects are getting arrogant.


I am sick and tired of the Anti-America crap.

At White House, the Dalai Lama sidesteps trash

www.csmonitor.com...

reply to post by Subjective Truth


There's no Anti-Americanism .

It's called reality.



Good day friend.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by Sean48]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yes, China is going to implode but that will be the Catalyst that sends the US off the cliff. If you google empty cities and empty malls about china, you will get stories of how whole cities and malls (big ones) where built but people don't live in them because they either can't afford them or are using them as an investment to sell.

Subjective truth...

thank you Sir for perfectly proving my point.....your arrogance is noted.


I notice you failed to mention you also have the Worlds biggest external debt....

Sorry to say this pal but the good times are over....

Sure you can pick fights with small little countries which have resources that your country doesnt have....thats what bullies do...!!

Dont see you using your might on anyone that might bite back though, which, for the average decent American is probably a good thing...

Thankfully you no longer have people quite so right wing as you seem to be, in power....


[edit on 19-2-2010 by benoni]

The Dalai Lama is not an old fart but a man of relgious conviction and integrity which alone would prove fearsome to a nation that has no relgious values or sense of integrity at all. It does seem odd that China is fearful of an independent Tibet. While the rest of the world is afraid of Iran and its nuclear potential, China wastes words and time over an age old belief in rebirth and salvation! What does that say about China? Holy Moly, God is still to be feared. Hallelujah!

reply to post by Shinsengumi


I totally agree with ya. America should close it's boarders, and stop all the assistance where sending to other countries and use it here. We should stop importing and make here ourselves. The world hates us anyways. So let the other countries take care of themselves and let us take care of our own. If a corporation wants to move it's business over seas, then the owner should have to move with it and give up their citizenship.

Enough is enough. If all the American corporations stay in America then the countries that hate us so much can go back to selling their children to make a living.

The news article is a bit on the sensationalist side.

First of all, the statement from Ministry of Foreign Affairs is a bit mistranslated.

The Chinese word that is used whenever there is dispute between itself and another country, is "要求"(yao qiu). It is a non-aggressive, non-passive word that is very appropriate for this type of situation.

In other context it can be translated as "demand", such as "The coach has a strict demand on his team" (教练对他的队伍严格要求). But in this case the correct translation should be something like "asks for".

There is another word 请求 that has the similar meaning to 要求, but is too passive to use in this context, since it incorporates the character 请, which will remind people of a similar word 恳请, or "begs for". Seriously, other than 要求, there isn't another word that feels just right for this type of statements.

Not to mention, the statement is pretty much a reusable template every time Dalai Lama has a meeting with a Western leader. People in China has been joking about how Ministry of Foreign Affairs should be changing its name to Ministry of Verbal Protest.

Sorry you had to write and quote so much material to pick on a mistranslated word.

Also, every time there is dispute between China and West (which is a lot of the times) and China saying something, does not necessarily mean its "flexing its muscle" or "being non-flexible". It's just people in the West is not used to hearing from China, and when they do, it's usually a "spiced up" version of the story.

Hey we do that too, our media always catches the stories where Western leaders or military officers making threats towards, saying harsh words on China, and always quotes some RAND paper babbling about how nuking China would be a great idea.

We just got used to it.

In closing, I see your Sun Tzu quote and I raise you a quote from Chinese folk wisdom, a more grass-roots one but gets the point across: "A barking dog does not bite / A dog that bites does not bark".

When China is being quite, then you should be worried. But if the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs is complaining as usual, that means business as usual, nothing new here.

Just to go a little off topic here, sort of, those of you who are idolising the Dalai Lama ought to read up on the real history of Tibet. It HAS been part of China for centuries. The Dalai Lama was a totally evil and oppressive dictator. He and his henchmen lived high on the hog for hundreds of years while starving the people. When the Chinese revolution came, and then Mao and co came into Tibet, the Tibetans HELPED them oust the Dalai Lama because the situation was so horrible.


The ‘good press’ he receives amongst the New Zealand public are largely founded on two factors…..

1.) The sympathy vote. Tibet was a utopia in the mountains until the evil-doing Chinese Red-Army arrived, bent on some ethic cleansing Asia style.
2. ) Asian religions are docile, less dogmatic than those we have here. Religion ‘Tibetan Style’ is some-what the equivalent of a cuddly serene ‘house-hold cat’.

Sorry to spoil the party here fellas, these widely-held views are a misinformed load of crap.

Forget what you have seen in Hollywood movies, read in books by ex SS officers, take-off those rose-tinted glasses one second.

Here’s the reality check.

Until the Chinese invaded Tibet 90% of the population lived-lives the equivalent of medieval serfs (called tralpa) who lived at the mercy of the ruling classes, and the aristocratic Dali Lama sat pretty, high-up in his 1,000 room palace.

Here’s how the arable land in Tibet was distributed, last time The Dalai Lama was in power: 30.9 percent was owned by government officials, 29.6 percent by nobles, and 39.5 percent by monasteries and upper-ranking lamas. Zip for the plebs, who mostly worked without pay.



Let’s make no mistake about this – the conditions in 1950’s Tibet were nothing but dire.

No sanitation, no public education (95% illiteracy), no infra-structure, no health system (average life span of 35), no public electricity.

A squalid, cruel, dysfunctional, feudal, theocracy.


In this imaginary Shangri-La, slavery was still being practiced in 1950, so if you were short of a dozen workers for your next harvest, you simply purchased them from the neighbour. In fact it wasn’t unusual for a Tibetan landlord to have a few thousand slaves.

Human beings were given away as presents.

To the majority of these subsistence-living serfs, the Chinese were looked upon as liberators not invaders & not surprisingly angry crowds soon turned the tables on the deposed aristocrats & monks the moment they got a chance.

But in an amazing re-write of history, the oppressors who had to flee Tibet, sometimes chased by angry crowds, now have the audacity to paint themselves as the oppressed

canterburyatheists.blogspot.com...

www.rumormillnews.com...

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
reply to post by benoni

 

Who has the highest GDP?

Who has the biggest military?

Who has vast oil reserves?

Who has the most military bases in other countires?

Who can strike any country at will?

How long could your country last against America if we really wanted to destroy you?



Let it go to our heads Hmm. I think we need to show the world again who is the the leader and who is the follower the subjects are getting arrogant.


I am sick and tired of the Anti-America crap.

This is not being anti American
vast oil, biggest military and bases all around the world certainly sounds impressive.

How do feed that war machine with food, munitions, spare parts etc... when the line of supply will be the first target by any enemy.

How do you produce the munitions when the raw materials or components dont get supplied.

every war machine has at least 1 weakness, the enemy only need to exploit that weekness, the US has always been known for its logistical skills in being able to supply it's troops.
I believe it is 75% of the supplies for the war in the middle east comes through Russia because Pakistan was too dangerous.

just like a game of chess, the pieces are being moved and the ones who look the least dangerous are in fact the ones which should have been watched to begin with.

Originally posted by LiteraryOneTwo
The Dalai Lama is not an old fart but a man of relgious conviction and integrity which alone would prove fearsome to a nation that has no relgious values or sense of integrity at all. It does seem odd that China is fearful of an independent Tibet. While the rest of the world is afraid of Iran and its nuclear potential, China wastes words and time over an age old belief in rebirth and salvation! What does that say about China? Holy Moly, God is still to be feared. Hallelujah!

Yes, one has to wonder why China fears him.

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Wishful thinking.

Capitalists (those with capital) make or break nations

So what if companies move production to cheaper countries?

It's their capital, anyway

American workers = self-entitled, unionizing beer-guzzling fatasses

Detroit, much?

Stupid American teenagers = whose hands America's superpower status is safe in

Rest of the world = can survive on rice and dried fish

Americans = will keep on whining and whining...Wa Wa Wa Wa Wa...

I'd gladly subsist on rice and dried fish if the scaifes, warburgs, rockafellers, rothschilds etc all were forced to do the same. As much as you decry Americans it is our standard of living being used as an example to workers around the world
that sparked the global economy and said exploitation of all those rice eaters. Besides the oceans will be fished out in 10 years then what will they eat lol. And Detroit has the highest unemployment in the country so no...they don't have much.

reply to post by Conclusion


1. I never said america should close its borders. Rather that they should have theyre own house in order before telling the rest of the world how to live.
2. Many countries get along just fine without interference by the u.s .
3. Selling their children ? Get a clue that doesnt happen in any of the countries Ive been to and lived in. Unlike most expats I dont live in the little expat communitier rather I live among the people in the countries I visit and reside in. So please read and pay attention to detail before making comments.

reply to post by CanadianDream420


too bad Mr. Xing not smart enough to realize new German car actually made in Alabama by hillbilly. Chinese government propaganda not contain such fact. I did enjoy the portion with Karl Rove's boy toy though. it would appear someone has been taking notes.