Natalee Holloway: The Case Reviewed

My ex-wife was in Aruba shortly after this case got a lot of press. I also had friends on the FSU Science-Diving team that searched the waters off that beach for almost a week after this case became hot news.

Both sets of people were amazed at how "every person in aruba 'knew' this girl was alive." Both sets of people said it was a running joke on the island. The workers at the hotels and restaurants, and people on the street all smirked and laughed at the Americans that were scrambling to find the girl?!?!?

Newspapers at the time were listing her as an "American Runaway." There was a huge press and TV campaign to paint her as a hard partying over stressed American youth.

So, did they all know this because they knew people connected to the disappearance? Did they all know this because of their knowledge of the human trafficking from the island? Did they all know this because of the massive press campaign to convince them so?

Whatever the case, I am afraid I don't share theMyth's positive outlook. If she was dropped several miles offshore, and this crack team of divers with their intricate knowledge of tides and currents didn't find her, then she is not going to be found. If she was "sold" to someone, and all of that press coverage went crazy, the purchaser probably had a few days of fun and then disposed of the body anywhere in the world from Holland to Argentina!

This is a very sad story, and as much as I love to travel and have a good time, a 17 or 18 year old girl has no business being alone in some other country where they don't understand the culture or the lurking dangers! I don't blame the family, but then again, no way any daughter of mine of high school age goes on a trip like that without me!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I also heard about this as well my friend, with the island thinking it was a joke type of thing. It truely makes you wonder how many people were involved. I would be interested in hearing if you have any other information from your wife's trip or the diving teams trips about the case?

[edit on Feb 15th 2010 by TheMythLives]

reply to post by TheMythLives


Thank you for your response. I agree with you a drug would make her relax but is it not strange that she would be capable of saying no to her frens. but breaking her own routine of going out with stranger? Even if someone is drugged which has not fully affected yet like in the case of Natalie of relaxed manner, a person has some conscious to their surrounding. I agree they are incapable of resisting properly but they are aware what they are doing or saying.

The fact that she was relaxed could also mean she believed she was safe or going to a safe place.

reply to post by TheMythLives


I don't have anything pertinent for you, maybe interesting.

First, The Diving team was severely hampered in their efforts because of other "permits" issued in the area for wrecks and salvage and such. They didn't see this as a hindrance at the time, because it was more people in the water at all times, and a better chance of finding the girl. It also allowed the team to focus on key areas and not have such a wide search area. Unfortunately they didn't recover a shred of evidence of anything helpful, and in hindsight they would have liked to branch out their search further.

Secondly, my wife and I had just divorced about 1 year prior, and she was a 28 year old blond girl that looked great in a bikini and liked to drink. I was not at all comfortable with her going there, and she did have many encounters with locals trying to get her out of the hotels and bars and into the more secluded areas. Luckily she has always been a partier, and she was a little older and more street savvy. Her opinion was that an 18 year old girl from such a good family with little street smarts could very easily have been carried off and raped / sold / murdered / or whatever.

Not only did she think it was possible, she thought it was very likely that the islanders all knew of such things happening frequently, and this girl being the perfect type of pretty, young, naive victim!

[edit on 15-2-2010 by getreadyalready]

reply to post by December_Rain


This is very true However, it would depend on the type of drug for instance if it was a psychoactive drug or a psychoactive derived type of drug it would make you act differently. I shoudl say it COULD, not would, depending on the situation. But I am not sure what he gave her, but to alter someone's mental state would seem much easier when they are boozed up and on a type of drug (date-rape type or some other derived drug). Joran could have told her to say that she would fine and she probably would ahve said that, depending on the drug of course and how strong it was. A lot of factors..

Great Post!!! I have some comments on some of your problems

Problem #1: great question
Problem #2: even better question. One usually tries to keep things quiet and not bring more people in
Problem #3: Both statements can be true. Kind of like loosing your keys in an amusement park. You know your keys are somewhere in the amusement park, but you have no idea where.
Problem #4: Her mom said she’s not a party animal….You know how many kids do how many things that their moms don’t know. Why would she go with a stranger? A smooth pimp with a foreign accent on a beach on her last day there, yeah that can get a girl to go off alone.
Problem #5: Saying a guy with a boat helped him on the island of Aruba, is like saying some guy named John in New York City helped him. Really doesn’t give up much info.
Problem #6: Defense mechanism?? IDK, good question
Problem #7: That’s a great question….any clue what Joran is doing now??
Problem #8: Natalee did not appear drunk. Some people hide their drunkenness very well. In this case, it also sounds like her friends have her drink enough times before to know when she was. When you are drunk it’s hard to tell is someone else is drunk unless they are REALLY drunk. Think back to your college days. If she is dancing with her ex boyfriend then, there are great odds that he doesn’t have a current girlfriend or at least on that was on the trip. The odds of a current girlfriend letting her man dance with an ex girlfriend, and one that was a hottie, is kind of slim. What are the odds of the ex boyfriend trying to get her a tad tipsy for a FUN last night there? If he were trying to get her tipsy would he admit to it? If the bartender said, “oh yeah, she was smashed when she left” he is opening himself up to a huge lawsuit. Why did he keep serving a drunk girl, not sure of the laws there but in America that’s a big no no.
Problem #9: This in my opinion goes two ways. Either Joran is giving off super creepy vibes that people are noticing that he is watching her. Some of the witnesses were “hating” Go to a place that’s crowded where girls are dancing on the bar. See how many guys and girls are “looking up” at someone. Then having multiple people saying that he was watching her. Unless Joran was the creepy guy at the bar, but then why did her friends let her leave with him if he was that creepy? The other possibility that some of Natalee’s girls wanted Joran and was mad that he was paying attention to her and/or some of the guys wanted Natalee and was mad that she was paying attention to a local boy.
Problem #10 Reasonable doubt? Throw out so many stories that everyone believes a different one and the government cannot get anything to stick

In your Scenario #2 I have a HUGE problem with one of you statements:
You say “ It just does not make any sense for Natalee to want to go to the beach to see the sharks!” Again think back to college. Most kids and more girls aren’t going to say, “We are going to hook up at the beach” Going to see sharks at the beach is kind of the code. If something happens it happens but that wasn’t the reason to go. Back in college I had a girl ask me to go watch TV but she didn’t have a TV in her room. I had another girl ask me to help get an alarm clock from another room up in the dorms. The famous tour of the house that always ends up in a bedroom, strange how that happens

This is long, but thanks for writing the post. Your series are my fav on ATS, please keep them up.

reply to post by Whateva69

i feel she wears a white vale across her face she has lots of eyeliner on, she looks after the children, she protects them, she is the strongest of the women there. they paint on each others skin with black ink. everyone wears white, hard sand everywhere. cool house no glass on windows. she is smart she does as she is told.

This really caught my attention Whateva69. The thing is, I worked at a place where a woman from India worked. One day she came in and had writing on her fingers, hands and arms. Nothing I could decipher but she told me it was part of a ritual between married men and women in India. Don't ask me why I recalled this when I read your post but I did. I looked up a few words along them lines but found nothing.

reply to post by mamabeth


Why don't we just boycott the U.S. for the amount of people missing there...

what, no csi miami at some holiday island destination?

color me surprised.

I'm guessing the interrogation of the suspects was about as far as their technology/resources could take it.

First of all, as an Arubian, I really hope that they find the girl and I do hope they find here alive although the chance is slim for that now.

But besides that. There are a lot of inconsitencies with this case. Beth Holloway arrived mere hours after the students left the island with thousands of posters Natalee missing, on the those posters (if i can remember well) it was written, "please call mom, we can work this out" Something like that. But I saw those posters personally.

Second, those kids were constantly high on drugs and alcohol. The staff at the Holiday Inn can vouch for that. One of my ex-student) (who was a waiter there( personally saw Natalee drunk or high there at the hotel.

And third... While we do have a problem with drug trafficking (Who doesn't). There is absolutely NO HUMAN TRAFFICKING going on here on Aruba. First of all, the people here are not capable of keeping such a conspiracy going. And second if that did happen.. We would've known the gory details by now, because there is a different party in government now. I know almost all of the ministers (including the new prime minister) and a great amount of people there personally. My dad works directly with the prime minister and the minister of finance; close relatives, one of my best friends and other people I know well work in law enforcement here, so I'm sure I would've known by now if there ever was any form of human trafficking going on here in Aruba. There is none.

Welcome back, Myth! This just made me realize how much I've missed your wonderful contributions.

This is indeed such a mysterious case. My initial thoughts were Natalie had been drinking way too much, and when Joran gave her the probable "date-rape" drug, along with the alcohol, it was just too much for her body to handle. She was a petite girl. The combination would lead to seizures and eventual cardiac arrest.

His stories were just too convoluted to hold any credibililty.

I remember the talk about the possibility of being sold as a "sex slave", and honestly it might be better if she were dead, than to have to live a life as a slave...any kind of slave. From the hills of Mountain Brook in Alabama, to slavery in a third world country, would drive many people insane, or perhaps even to suicide.

But it's so good to have you back, Myth! I hope you will pull up a chair and stay a while!

reply to post by thinline


Thank you for posting my friend! I agree with your comments to my post, great conclusions and work I appreciate your kind words and support as well.

reply to post by TheBandit795


Good to have an Arubians point of view! I appreciate you posting and telling us what you observed and witnessed. Also glad to hear that there is a new Minister and everything over there. Hopefully, it all works out in the end!


reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Thank you my friend! I apprecaite your continued support and friendship throughout our time together on and off of ATS. I agree with you as well and I will try and find a chair to make myself comfortable!

[edit on Feb 15th 2010 by TheMythLives]

An open Letter to the Mother of Natalee Holloway:

Mam, I had to quit reading this thread even though I was drawn to it. It may have polluted this attempt to get you the info I best can.

All I got before I started reading was memory when I first heard this story broke. She was sold into slavery was the first thought I had. Imagine my surprise when I read here that it was a possibility.

I guess the universe is challenging me so I accept.

What I will be doing?

I will be using the abilities at my disposal to deal with it! I am naturally a superiorist. My only goal is to either get you her body back or a live girl back. Either way you will have closure.

I have feeling the enemy in this situation might be reading this so here is a simple offer.

Just return the girl and all will be forgotten. Her return or her body is all that matters. Alive is preferred. I am not without resources and welcome a challenge to let the anger built up in my soul out on you. You see I have developed what I think is the final piece to my RI experiments and need more test subjects to test it on. You have volunteered should nothing be forthcoming.

Weird feeling of lighting in my veins. Good, my brain is homing in already. Followed by lust and a lot of it.

Now back to sanity.

Dear mrs.Holloway,
I need something from you in return. Let us assume I am insane for a moment and know nothing. This means the result will be nill.

What I need you to do is locate a group of individuals who operate in the US (*based here). They specialize in getting people out of cults and deprogramming them. They need to be contacted to find your daughter. They will be the ones who used to be special forces and moonlight to make a living. Unlike they lazy law enforcement, they will be able to accurately find her quickly or at least get(any way possible)

No I don’t know who they are or represent them in any way. I just feel like it is an answer. If you cant find them them try going through this man to see if he can point you in the right direction.

www.bethsoft.com...

It will cost you but will be worth it.
Kent Walls

Contrary to what I posted earlier in a post. It is not the time for blame. It’s a search and rescue time.

I wont come back to this thread so will someone U2U me if any new results come from this.

@the psychics and other practitioners of CRV in any of its forms put your results to work. Those that did this deserve no privacy. Nail em to the wall

Great thread Myth! S&F! I will admit I did not pay all that much attention to the Holloway case.I truly think she was sold into slavery.It does bare all the hallmarks of a kidnapping.



PS:Welcome back,Myth!

If I were Natalie's father I would have had Joran on the rack by now.

reply to post by mike dangerously


Thank you for the kind words my friend! It is great to be back.

reply to post by Grumble


I am sure we all feel the exact same way

OK first to the threads that are saying they have visions of her

you guys are disgusting, how dare you use your imagination to write some bs about some sick sexual fantasy you have, which what does threads where, you guys need some therapy , help, and you make me sick to my stomach


i read the hole thread, and I just feel disgusted that this can happen to someone, how they can be just sold to people for money, to become slaves, I truly hope that this people die painfully, slowly.

the hidden camera in the car video is very reveling, the guy keeps looking into the hidden cam, and is kinda obious that he knows is there, but it seems like he diden't know, from his confidence, that the tape will end up all over the globe.....
... to me it does look like a huge cover up, and that kid is just someone to point the finger at, but much larger people are involved in this ,

the videos speaking against the family are very weird, and look at how the people usual sayin things against the family are people who live on the island and problay have a invsible gun, or a hidden stash of money, to say all this things, the video itself was very profssionaly done and atleast a 2 - 3 grand spend on it, with the announcers voice being american, they are trying to point the finger at the mom

what is weird is how the father released a book, and is her step father, but i don't know if he is involved, he doesnt seem like a g father, that just lost his own daughter by being sold to someone, he just doesn't give out that despread vibe, i know i would raise hell in anyway i can, if this would happen to me, ever.

and why did our gov help a little more, why could we not send a team of cia agents to find out where she is gonne too, and possibily reveal this deck of cards of sexual predators, i personaly think this form of slavery is much worse then what sadam did to iraq, why not spend a billion and find out who this #ers are, and get them out of the system of power???

for me this people are worse then any terroist blowing up there own car, this people make children suffer

I truly hope natalie did die at the beach from a seizure, and if not i hope she is planning a way to expose this people with her own life.

to be honest, islands like that, need to be nuked...

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by Whateva69

 

This really caught my attention Whateva69. The thing is, I worked at a place where a woman from India worked. One day she came in and had writing on her fingers, hands and arms. Nothing I could decipher but she told me it was part of a ritual between married men and women in India. Don't ask me why I recalled this when I read your post but I did. I looked up a few words along them lines but found nothing.

Is this the kind of design you are talking about?






These are very famous in India among women. Any kind of festival or big occasion specially in marriages women get this done on hands and feet. It's called "Mehndi".

[edit on 16-2-2010 by December_Rain]

Originally posted by thebluemoon
you guys are disgusting, how dare you use your imagination to write some bs about some sick sexual fantasy you have, which what does threads where, you guys need some therapy , help, and you make me sick to my stomach

How do you know it's just imagination?

And how is that supposed imagination any different from the one used when someone says they are sure that she was kidnapped?

i read the hole thread, and I just feel disgusted that this can happen to someone, how they can be just sold to people for money, to become slaves, I truly hope that this people die painfully, slowly.

What can happen? How do you know what happened?
Aren't you using your imagination?

the hidden camera in the car video is very reveling, the guy keeps looking into the hidden cam, and is kinda obious that he knows is there, but it seems like he diden't know, from his confidence, that the tape will end up all over the globe.....

I also think that the video itself is suspicious (and the lack of translation for large parts of what is said, maybe someone can help with that), not only because of the way he acts but because of the editing, by changing the order during editing it's very easy to give a different meaning to what was said.

and why did our gov help a little more, why could we not send a team of cia agents to find out where she is gonne too, and possibily reveal this deck of cards of sexual predators, i personaly think this form of slavery is much worse then what sadam did to iraq, why not spend a billion and find out who this #ers are, and get them out of the system of power???

If she was a victim of some sex trade then you should think about the possibility of your government and/or the CIA being part of it, corruption is not limited to small countries.

to be honest, islands like that, need to be nuked...

Sure, destroying a country it's the best way of dealing with a possible international sex trade organisation.

reply to post by thebluemoon

Originally posted by thebluemoon
to be honest, islands like that, need to be nuked...

Are you saying that I should be nuked? That I and almost everyone I love should die???