Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Make no mistake. I get the point of your posts. I just hold to my convictions and am trying to point out the areas of your pov I do not agree with.

You are trying to do the same with my pov, and we are NOT going to agree, so if I fail to respond to many more of your posts, it is because my answer is already posted.

There isnt much wiggle room in my convictions regarding rape. Clothes do not factor in AT ALL.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
There isnt much wiggle room in my convictions regarding rape. Clothes do not factor in AT ALL.

Don't you think men would know that more than a woman?

That's like saying a woman's weight and attractiveness has nothing to do with rape.

Do you think anyone would rape Rosie O'donnell?

it reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite movies of all time:

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Jesus H. Christ! Private Pyle, why is your footlocker unlocked?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, I don't know, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Pyle, if there is one thing in this world that I hate, it is an unlocked footlocker! You know that, don't you?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, yes, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: If it wasn't for dickheads like you, there wouldn't be any thievery in this world, would there?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, no, sir!

Now - please understand that exceptions do exist to what im about to say - so what im about to say does not apply to all women, just most.


But, honestly, how would you feel about a guy who was driving his motor cycle at 120 mph down an icy road, who lost control, slammed into a tree, and died?

Im sure you wouldn't feel "happy", but would you say the guy was 100% innocent?


If you dress like a whore, flirt with anything with "three" legs, and don't take precautions to protect yourself, then you are ASKING for trouble.

It still does not make it right, but you don't get my sympathies if you didn't do everything in YOUR power to prevent it from happening.


Sure, they have the "right" To dress however they want.

But i wouldn't walk down a dark alley that is known to be dangerous with gang crime, flashing 100 dollar bills, wearing a rolex by myself at night with no flash light....even though i have the RIGHT to

[edit on 15-2-2010 by Snarf]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Well, some of the ignorant men ARE posting in this thread. (by ignorant I mean those who think clothes should have bearing on culpability in court, etc)(or the idiots who think the woman holds any fault for choice of clothes resulting in a rape).

Shame I have to keep trying to make my point, so I guess I will just quit making it. It is not going to change.

Sorry for harping on it, it is a very charged subject.

FTA:

I do think someone would rape Rosie, if the circumstances were there (ie she ran across the path of a rapist). Has she been raped? I know she has had a rough past.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by hotbakedtater]

I love reading "is it because we're conditioned by society?" and this phrase appeared many times in this thread. Of course it's because we're conditioned by society.

Living in society automatically conditions you to believe and agree with and participate in things you would otherwise find idiotic.

If you were never a part of a society you would find the concept of rape stupid, you would be like an animal who takes his mate by force, because that is how things are done in the wild. For someone to tell you that's wrong would seem ridiculous, because that's just how you do it. Then you'd laugh at our courting rituals.

Originally posted by riley
Rape is not about sex it is about power and conquest.

That IS NOT always the case...again being a cop and having closed MANY rape cases and interviewed the rapists on numerous occasions there ARE cases where it was strickly sexual and had nothing to do with power.

I believe the myth that "dressing sexually causes rape" that is causing some rapes.. I do not think how a woman dresses makes one difference. It might get her alot more phone numbers though. If a man wants to make a woman his gf raping her will probably decrease his chances. Women should be able to partake in the normal rituals of courtship without being watched to see if she is dressed innaprpriately enough to be raped.

If you don't think the dressing makes ANY difference I have to disagree. Only because again I have made and convicted offenders and their omission to it being how she looked was his sole reason for raping her. And the guys who were friends who raped also stated they found her attractive, but knew force was the only way they would ever have her. Sad but true....

The bad apples are getting taught their bad ways and having their bad attitudes validated by the rest of society.

I think thats BS and your emotions are now clouding your judgment. I for one help lock these scum up and never teach that, have never been tought that by the men in my family, or friends, and never condoned it.....just because people on this board and maybe some in your personal life think dressing like a hooker makes you more of a target doesn't mean we advocate rape...

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Well, some of the ignorant men ARE posting in this thread. (by ignorant I mean those who think clothes should have bearing on culpability in court, etc)(or the idiots who think the woman holds any fault for choice of clothes resulting in a rape).
[edit on 15-2-2010 by hotbakedtater]

I will agree with you to a certain extent:

"Clothing" should have no weight in a court room. Rape is rape, and the culprit should be arrested and incarcerated.

However, leaving the legal speak aside, if a girl dressed like a slut, flirted with a lot of guys, chose to go to a "party" with a stranger, then got raped, well...he needs to go to jail, and she needs to learn not to be a goddamned idiot.

Was she asking to be raped? No.
But she didn't do anything in HER POWER to stop it from happening either.

Originally posted by Tifozi
reply to post by riley

 

Please don't put every man on the same bag.

I did no such thing. "Normal" people rape, have secret porn addictions, cheat on their wives and husbands, abuse their spouses, steal, gamble, have drug and drinking habbits that are sometimes very secret, have secret internet friendships, play warcraft, have whips and chains in their bedrooms, are suicidal, fantasize about killing people. There are normal people everywhere. Some normal people frequent internet sites about aliens and NWO conspiracies. I am under no illusion that there is any such thing as "normal".

People, who commit rape, aren't normal, whether you agree or not.

A normal person has limitations in their morals, they know when it's enough, they can distinguish between pleasure and pain, and they can distinguish between respect and shame.

Yet people on this board are justifying the actions of the rapists as being merely a response to what a woman wears. Imo THAT is NOT a healthy or NORMAL or RATIONAL perception to have but hey thats just me I must be abnormal. Affording rapists some leyway when it comes to what women wear only gives them the message that judges and juries might hold the same views.

A rapist, like any other person with mental problems(criminal), isn't normal. Because if they were normal, they would act accordingly.

I'm normal, I know what rape is, I know how wrong and disgusting it is to privet a women from her own pride and dignity. I know what pain and pleasure is, and I can draw a line between them and respect the people around me.

More and so, my definition of pleasure isn't watching a women suffering, and losing her grip to reality.



A rapist, or sex offender, can't see a women as a person, as a human being. They can only see a women as a piece of meat that will satisfy some of their needs.

Calling that kind of people normal, is an insult.

If what a women wears really does cause rape.. then that is basically saying any man could be turned into a rapist by a miniskirt which is an insult to their whiole gender. While society panders to this mindset rape statistics will keep rising and rapists will continue to use the "but your honour she showed cleavage!".

[edit on 15-2-2010 by riley]

Now this is probably going to get me kicked me off this site.

IMO, yes it is the womans fault. To all those professing as victims keep reading.

Recently myself, I had ran into a situation where to say the least, I ve been screwed over 100%. It cuts so close to the gut, I still get tears in my eyes if I spend to much time going over it.

Read THIS....

I refuse to accept the fact I am a victim. I made three FU*&ING choices that lead to the situation and each one I had a small feeling I choose to ignore.You can bet your sweat @$$ ill never let this happen again. Three damn choices have nearly ruined my life and I can say I have started over sucessfully.

Dont sit there and whine on and on about all the BS. This society accepts victimization to easily. If I accept that I put myself in this damn situation I CAN GET MYSELF OUT of it.

I couldnt keep reading all the horsesh#$ I will try to go back to page ten and read later when I calm down over it.

@the fact its about power

your right and your wrong. Its about the urge for sex, and then it becomes the what their paradigm makes it.

I want to send a message to those who are 'victims'. First get away from that fallacy. You made the choices that put you there. You made yourself the prey and some part of you is listening to what I am saying.

Now is the time to self measure and play devils advocate no matter how much it hurts, period. This way you can take next step.

First by accepting this you re-empower your own life which leads to the next step.

Now ladies you are the predators, no longer the prey. Your new secret weapon is knowledge and forethought before you do anything. It is required of all humans now arm yourself. I do recommend arming yourself to the T. (tazers, mace, knives, and glock nines or 45's.)

@smoking girl(love the picture)
en.wikipedia.org...

If I understand correctly the sh#$head got away. Well not exactly... your degrees away from getting him. six people away.

for some reason yours was the only post that touched what was left of my heart. Since all cops are useless unless its for paperwork storage, find the FBI rape unit. Odds are they may busy but will listen. Offer to help them hunt the bastard down. Six degrees.... Odds are if it was at a concert or post(????) he has crossed state lines to do it before, making it their baby. Its what the idiot locals never take into account in initial investigations. Once a predator always a predator!!!!

Locals are to corrupt and may be in on it. If you have recovered enough from your wounds, get the SOB. its the only true way to peace of mind.

I am running out of post space..

reply to post by hotbakedtater

Well, some of the ignorant men ARE posting in this thread. (by ignorant I mean those who think clothes should have bearing on culpability in court, etc)(or the idiots who think the woman holds any fault for choice of clothes resulting in a rape).

We can have differing opinions without calling each other "idiots"...it doesn't help the discussion.

Just to clarify though...I don't think I fit into either of those categories. But I do think women need to be personally responsible for the situations they put themselves into. I will not excuse a womens poor judgement or stupid decision because it resulted in rape...it was still poor judgement or a stupid decision on her part and she should take responsibility for her own actions.

Double post

[edit on 15-2-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

reply to post by riley

Yet people on this board are justifying the actions of the rapists as being merely a response to what a woman wears. Imo THAT is NOT a healthy or NORMAL or RATIONAL perception to have but hey thats just me I must be abnormal. Affording rapists some leyway when it comes to what women wear only gives them the message that judges and juries might hold the same views.

I don't think they deserve leeway for committing the crime, but the woman doesn't deserve sympathy for allowing it to happen. I also think that this is what a lot of people in this thread are trying to say. I have yet to see 1 person say that a rapist should not go to jail (my apologies if someone did say that and i missed it)

But at a certain point, everyone needs to start taking responsibility for their own lives and stop using the excuse of "well, things SHOULDNT be this way"

well - they ARE this way - either you grow the F up and take responsibility or you continue to blame others for the bad things that happen to you.

Again - i realize that even the most cautious women sometimes get raped. But i don't believe this is the argument we are having in the spirit of this thread...

I think that alot of people here are misunderstanding alot of opposing opinions.
Nobody, I think, Is saying that it's the woman's fault that she got raped, people are just saying, for the last few pages at least, that clothing does have a factor on whether a woman will be raped or not. That does NOT mean she deserved it, there's a difference. And I think people need to understand that for us to progress in this debate.

Also, one thing I find extremely frustrating is people saying "Rapists rape for power" "rapist do this because of that", "pedophiles do this because of that".
Please stop this nonsense!
Nothing is written in stone, these people do these things for different reasons, sure there are trends but that doesn't mean that those trends represent 100% of those occurences.
A person may rape for power, but you are talking about a repeat raper, one that rapes often.
But some people may rape because I don't know many they are drunk and didn't get any for a long time who knows.

reply to post by Snarf

@ your response at 4:15 p.m.

Essentially this is what I'm trying to say. But it was put differently. Thank you!

[edit on 15-2-2010 by sos37]

reply to post by Snarf

However, leaving the legal speak aside, if a girl dressed like a slut, flirted with a lot of guys, chose to go to a "party" with a stranger, then got raped, well...he needs to go to jail, and she needs to learn not to be a goddamned idiot.

Was she asking to be raped? No.
But she didn't do anything in HER POWER to stop it from happening either.

So Snarf put it a little more bluntly then I have...but this is what I have been saying all along.

And some girls have the attitude of "well I should be able to dress/do/go wherever I want to and not be raped"...and as I said before, yes in perfect world you should be able to...but we live in reality...not in a perfect world. So sorry...if you have that way of thinking you are setting yourself up for trouble.

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by riley

 

Yet people on this board are justifying the actions of the rapists as being merely a response to what a woman wears. Imo THAT is NOT a healthy or NORMAL or RATIONAL perception to have but hey thats just me I must be abnormal. Affording rapists some leyway when it comes to what women wear only gives them the message that judges and juries might hold the same views.

I don't think they deserve leeway for committing the crime, but the woman doesn't deserve sympathy for allowing it to happen.

wtf? "Allowing" it to happen?

Yeah okay. So in future all women need to do is explain to their rapists that they will not allow the rape to continue and their rapist will accept that and not rape them..


Women are not gods and cannot control everything and everyone around them.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by riley]

reply to post by riley

Women are not gods and cannot control everything and everyone around them.

But women can control some things (what they wear, how they act, where they go, and who they go with) but they still choose not to. And their reasoning is that they SHOULD be able to wear whatever they want...they SHOULD be able to flirt with whoever they want...they SHOULD be able to go whereever they want.

And all we are saying is sure...you CAN do whatever you want...but then you need to take responsibility for those actions and admit you are putting your self in potentially dangerous situations. And if something bad happens to you in those situations...well you had a part in putting yourself there.



[edit on 15-2-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
But some people may rape because I don't know many they are drunk and didn't get any for a long time who knows.

YOU are perpetuating the MYTH that rape sometimes happens because men are just horny. I do not believe that men do not have any control over their own penises. If they do not have that control they should go and have themselves committed or chemically castrated for the good of society.

Apologies if this has already been said.

There's something amiss when women do not see that the man must be responsible for his own actions, and in most cases the women didn't contribute to the act. Unless it was a case of being consentual at first and then changing her mind during the act, which becomes a rather shady area to pass any judgment on.

I seriously doubt that most women are in any way responsible for being raped, clothing included. A women should be able to dress as she chooses and not be the target of anyone for it.

Perhaps the old style guilt so many carry needs to be addressed, because seriously folks, no one deserves being raped.

(Edited for spelling mistake, again. Naughty, bad dyslexic fingers)


[edit on 15-2-2010 by Tayesin]

reply to post by LooseLipsSinkShips

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips

Originally posted by LadySkadi
I was once told I "would be easy to rape" by a guy I knew casually. That struck a nerve and I never forgot that (this was a long time ago)... I do think women need to be smart about where they are and what they are doing and with whom they are around. However, to blame a victim for Rape is terrible. That's to victimize the person twice. How sad, this is still the beliefs of some...

What kind of a FREAK were you hanging out with that would say that to you? I hope you still do not hang around with demented thinking types like that still.

Hockey player from Canada I met over summer break. We were actually having a conversation about this very topic and he made sure I got the point. It worked as it was intended. I did not have that "it can't happen to me" naivety anymore, (I was 20 and had never really thought about it) but I did, after that. He actually did me a favor...

*There was a bit more to it, than what I wrote, but you get the gist...



[edit on 15-2-2010 by LadySkadi]