Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

reply to post by Ratkiller


Women need to wake up and break fashion trends, because piggish animals who call themselves men cannot keep from sexing up sexy dressed women???

but to issue a statement in the case something like "in this case, while the accused has been found guilty, it needs to be noted that the victim is not completely without blame", or something to that affect

reply to post by sos37


You know, if this were to become the practice

and I were a sexual predator

then I would be sure to attack only women dressed provocatively

because when my court case comes up

I can say "It's not ALL my fault. Blame her, too....."

This is a slippery slope argument.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

but to issue a statement in the case something like "in this case, while the accused has been found guilty, it needs to be noted that the victim is not completely without blame", or something to that affect

reply to post by sos37

 

You know, if this were to become the practice

and I were a sexual predator

then I would be sure to attack only women dressed provocatively

because when my court case comes up

I can say "It's not ALL my fault. Blame her, too....."

This is a slippery slope argument.

Certainly, sexual predators and rapists would be in favor of and promote on web boards this type of thing.

reply to post by smyleegrl


I think we are debating semantics.

And for what it is worth...I don't think you have any personal responsibility in your attack. You went with a trusted friend...not a stranger. You went to a familiar place...not somewhere foreign to you. You did something that was safe in the past...which is the only way we can make decisions is by judging the past. I would never say not knowing self defense puts someone at fault...only that knowing self defense is beneficial. Not knowing it doesn't mean you have made an intentional bad decision.


I'm glad you are getting what I'm saying. I am afraid there are some here that don't and think I'm trying to place "blame" on the females. I have never said "blame"...I have always said "fault" which in my definition is personal responsibility.


I know it is a touchy subject...especially for those that have gone through it. But it is still important to discuss instead of just ignoring and hoping it will go away.

For those who think a woman should shoulder partial responsibility for her own rape because of the way she dresses, let me introduce you to someone who agrees with you:

Australia's top Muslim cleric rationalized a series of gang rapes by Arab men, blaming women who "sway suggestively," wear make-up and don't cover themselves in the tradition of Islam.
.../...
"But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he said, referring to the women victims – whom he said were "weapons used by Satan."
.../...
"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?" the sheik said in his sermon. "The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

www.wnd.com...

Yes, I am aware of the religious and cultural implications. This person's views are extreme in that he absolves the rapists completely and advocates suppression of women's freedom of movement. But the essence of the message is the same.

reply to post by smyleegrl


To me, dress alone doesn't give an attacker the right to argue against full culpability. Dress + Actions or actions alone, does.

And again, since some people seem to take this out of context, I'm not saying Dress + Actions gives an attacker the right to attack - I'm saying Dress + Actions should be considered by the court when determining the fullness of responsibility for the attack.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


So, this past weekend, when my wife wore...

a black mini skirt, mid thigh
black stockings
black calf high boots, with bows and ties in the back
a white top with black lace over the front on the breasts

she was asking to be attacked and it's the fashion industry's fault?

I just want to make sure I undertstand what you're saying.

Rape is usually not about passion, Its not about if the victim is dressed "slutty". Its usually payback for something the victim did to the rapist in the past. And they just never got over it and their anger built up over time. But to blame the victim is crazy because usually both parties are at fault.

reply to post by hotbakedtater
yes, and then we can pass laws telling the women they should only dress in burkas if we don't want to be raped!!!

wear very tight jeans gals!! the italian courts have already made a ruling that you can't be raped in tight jeans because, well, they'd just be too darned hard for a rapist to get off!
the ruling was overturned by a higher court, but that's only because it offended enough women and well, those women all started wearing tight jeans everywhere, even in the government offices!

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Women need to wake up and break fashion trends, because piggish animals who call themselves men cannot keep from sexing up sexy dressed women???

I think what people are arguing is that so called "trend" was created for what purpose? Why have a victoria secrets? Why have "mini" skirts? Why have bikini's?

The reason is SOMEWHERE along the way we learned SEX sells, we learned that dressing in a certain manner attracted attention from the opposite sex...i.e. what most people want. People dress sexy, dress for success, etc...to IMPRESS, to be SEEN, to be NOTICED...and thats the argument I believe some members are trying to make. We as humans are sexual creatures by nature, but once the skin started showing, the clothing became skimpier, the SEX appeal was the new "style", it created a monster in some....

take the creation of the see thru thong. What purpose does it serve? Nothing except to be associated with sex, sexual ideas, etc....its not worn to protect anything or for comfort...so i am told..lol....

reply to post by sos37


And here is where you and I differ. Because I would say nothing gives the attacker the right to try to justify what he did. But I also think, in SOME situations, women need to realize they put themselves in a dangerous situation themselves.

Originally posted by elevatedone
So, this past weekend, when my wife wore...

a black mini skirt, mid thigh
black stockings
black calf high boots, with bows and ties in the back
a white top with black lace over the front on the breasts

she was asking to be attacked and it's the fashion industry's fault?

I just want to make sure I undertstand what you're saying.

I think what people are saying is your wife wanted to be noticed. Why else wear that outfit? No other reason to look her best, feel her best, and again be SEEN...thats why we dress nice, dress sexy, buy the name brands, get our hair cut, do their nails, shave their legs, etc....its NATURAL...just sad some can't look and appreciate what they see without going to the level of rape....

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by sos37

 

And here is where you and I differ. Because I would say nothing gives the attacker the right to try to justify what he did. But I also think, in SOME situations, women need to realize they put themselves in a dangerous situation themselves.

Hang on there, I am NOT arguing the justification for rape! Go back and read my posts. I am arguing shirking responsibility versus taking responsiblity for your own actions.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


And who do you think created these "fashion trends" to make women think they need to dress like this?


Do you think people at the top of the fashion industry are women? No...they are piggish men who are good at marketing to get women to dress like this. And the hilarious thing is...that you and others are on here arguing that women should be able to dress however they want...when in fact they are just wearing what they are told to wear.

Originally posted by sos37
I'm saying Dress + Actions should be considered by the court when determining the fullness of responsibility for the attack.

I don't think Dress or Actions should be allowed in the court at all...so I still think this is where you and I differ.

I know it is a touchy subject...especially for those that have gone through it. But it is still important to discuss instead of just ignoring and hoping it will go away.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


You are exactly right.

Reading some of the responses in this thread have really made me think. And anything that makes us think, causes us to question things, well, that's all to the good.

And may I say thank you for keeping your responses free of attack? Like you mentioned, it is a touchy subject and when emotions are high people do say (or type, as the case may be) things without planning them out. But I found all your posts eloquent and unemotional. Kudos for that.

More and more I am seeing people imply that the sluttier a woman is dressed the more a man is morally "allowed" to rape her. If a woman is wearing a boob tube and mini skirt and gets raped she did not giving a "voucher" away to rape. A man knows what rape is and it is not longer sex when she is crying, pushing him away or saying no. There is a social unwritten rule that some women are considered fair game if they are dressed "immorally". Lets the real about this.. some people (both men and women) seem to think that rape is justified punnishment for wearing the wrong thing or being too drunk. If it was not punnishment it would not be violent and against their will. Once a woman stops acting like a "lady" some poeple think she no longer has to be treated like one.

"Pour this woman another drink".

It's like there is a set of unwritten rules where some men think it's "okay" to rape a woman. This iman sums it up quite well.

www.theaustralian.com.au...
THE nation's most senior Muslim cleric has blamed immodestly dressed women who don't wear Islamic headdress for being preyed on by men and likened them to abandoned "meat" that attracts voracious animals.

In a Ramadan sermon that has outraged Muslim women leaders, Sydney-based Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali also alluded to the infamous Sydney gang rapes, suggesting the attackers were not entirely to blame.

While not specifically referring to the rapes, brutal attacks on four women for which a group of young Lebanese men received long jail sentences, Sheik Hilali said there were women who "sway suggestively" and wore make-up and immodest dress ... "and then you get a judge without mercy (rahma) and gives you 65 years".

"But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he asked.

The leader of the 2000 rapes in Sydney's southwest, Bilal Skaf, a Muslim, was initially sentenced to 55 years' jail, but later had the sentence reduced on appeal.

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In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

He may be be very vocal in his extreme views but the FACT is his views are NO DIFFERENT from many of the views expressed here. People have watched women become liberated yet they are STILL holding them to the same "Eve was evil" standards where all the sexual frustrations are landed at her feet regardless of whether she even knows the guy or not.

I don't care if a woman strips down to her knickers.. that still does is not a universal licence to brutally violate her.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Women need to wake up and break fashion trends, because piggish animals who call themselves men cannot keep from sexing up sexy dressed women???

what is your opinion on men staring at women's chest?
I am serious here actually.

If a voluptuous woman shows alot of cleavage with a very low cut shirt of some sort and then men stare at them as they pass by does that woman have the right to get mad?

If she's flashing them then isn't it for public viewing?

reply to post by rcwj1975


Exactly.

I asked her why she likes to dress up when we go out, she said

1. "because it makes her feel good"
2. " she likes looking nice for me"

Does she get looked at by others, absolutely. Do I mind, of course not, unless someone is really being an Arse about it, or even commenting.. hasn't happened yet

Now if she's going out with girlfriends only, the dress isn't quite as sexy as when it's her and I. However, she still likes to look nice and dress a little sexy, I don't have a problem with it and it isn't an invitation to any man to make a sexual comment or action towards her.