"America cursed by God if we reject Israel " From Rep. Bachmann (Minn)

Armageddon, here we go!!

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Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by RizeorDie

 

You do realize that Jesus was a jew?He was born of a jewish woman
with a genetic line to king David.

Yeah but imagine this.

God is up there somewhere looking down and all of a sudden decides. "Alright fine, you can have your Messiah you've waited long enough". Then the Jews bring him to Pontus Pilot to have him executed.....

Strike two? I think so...

reply to post by burdman30ott6


The Liberty attack a "Friendly Fire" incident? Surely you jest?

It was premeditated murder, designed to fool the American public into backing entering a war against Israels neighbours, that backfired when the damned ship wouldn't sink.

It is as relevent today as it was back then, as it shows, as have other events since, how Israel likes to carry out these sorts of attack to fool others into fighting their wars.

If this is to be considered irrelevent, then why do we get the holocaust rammed down our throats at every opportunity? Sorry, that was another time, another place, and I was not involved and so have no feeling of guilt or sympathy given the acts of Israel since then.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by intrepid
And how is Israel a "tried and true" ally? What does Israel do for the US? Many points could be made as to what Israel hasn't done for the US. The USS Liberty comes to mind.

I wouldn't go there or else next we'll be questioning what the US alliance has done for Canada (See: Tarnak Farm friendly fire incident), or how about the incredible good the US has done for the Tillman family? Friendly fire happens... it's not the best ground to lay an indictment against an ally upon, especially when the incident in question occurred over 60 years ago.

That's an attempt at deflection. The crux of the matter is that Israel does not serve any US interests at all, while the US bends over backwards to accommodate Israeli interests. Frankly, Tillman is an indirect victim of the US pro-Israeli policy, so you demagoguery fails in that part, too.

reply to post by DaMod


he was, jesus christ WAS a jew...

i dont have any problem with jews, but zionism is the problem

i must admit, they are clever when it comes to planning...

reply to post by mamabeth


Except that if has been known, declared and written innumerable times


David and Solomon were myths .. legends


It's realised that some people do not WANT to know this

and even MORE wish to conceal this from the masses


Nevertheless, biblical archaelogy and research have shown, beyond ANY dispute, that i]David and Solomon were MYTHS .. LEGENDS


and if you want to acquaint yourself with this first hand, you could do no better than to read 'When and How Was the Jewish People INVENTED'

by Jewish-Israeli Professor Schlomo Sand of Tel Aviv university


In fact, here's an excerpt from his book,

which has sold close to a million copies in Israel alone (so there's really NO excuse for anyone to continue peddling the David and Solomon myths now, in the 21st century)

Founding myths shaken

Is the Bible a historical text? Writing during the early half of the 19th century, the first modern Jewish historians, such as Isaak Markus Jost (1793-1860) and Leopold Zunz (1794-1886), did not think so. They regarded the Old Testament as a theological work reflecting the beliefs of Jewish religious communities after the destruction of the first temple. It was not until the second half of the century that Heinrich Graetz (1817-91) and others developed a “national” vision of the Bible and transformed Abraham’s journey to Canaan, the flight from Egypt and the united kingdom of David and Solomon into an authentic national past. By constant repetition, Zionist historians have subsequently turned these Biblical “truths” into the basis of national education.

But during the 1980s an earthquake shook these founding myths. The discoveries made by the “new archaeology” discredited a great exodus in the 13th century BC. Moses could not have led the Hebrews out of Egypt into the Promised Land, for the good reason that the latter was Egyptian territory at the time. And there is no trace of either a slave revolt against the pharaonic empire or of a sudden conquest of Canaan by outsiders.

Nor is there any trace or memory of the magnificent kingdom of David and Solomon. Recent discoveries point to the existence, at the time, of two small kingdoms: Israel, the more powerful, and Judah, the future Judea. The general population of Judah did not go into 6th century BC exile: only its political and intellectual elite were forced to settle in Babylon. This decisive encounter with Persian religion gave birth to Jewish monotheism.

mondediplo.com...

and a little more that you won't hear from Rep.Bachmann:

Most Zionist thinkers were aware of this: Yitzhak Ben Zvi, later president of Israel, and David Ben Gurion, its first prime minister, accepted it as late as 1929, the year of the great Palestinian revolt. Both stated on several occasions that the peasants of Palestine were the descendants of the inhabitants of ancient Judea

mondediplo.com...


or .. a different article:

"Zionism changed the idea of Jerusalem. Before, the holy places were seen as places to long for, not to be lived in. For 2,000 years Jews stayed away from Jerusalem not because they could not return but because their religion forbade them from returning until the messiah came."

"But once I started looking at the evidence, I discovered that the kingdoms of David and Solomon were legends.

electronicintifada.net...



[edit on 9-2-2010 by Dock9]

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
I'd argue that logic falls on the side of them finding some reason to blame their hatred of America upon completely aside from Zionism.

I completely disagree. I'm glad you used the term "Zionism" though. Let's face it. Israel is NOT the "muscle" here. The US is. Look at the vetos that the US puts up when Israel is sanctioned by the UN.

I wouldn't go there or else next we'll be questioning what the US alliance has done for Canada (See: Tarnak Farm friendly fire incident), or how about the incredible good the US has done for the Tillman family? Friendly fire happens... it's not the best ground to lay an indictment against an ally upon, especially when the incident in question occurred over 60 years ago.

I'm perfectly willing to go there. I don't see what your references have to do with the topic. The USS Liberty took place 42 years ago and has been the stuff that CT is made of. If you're talking about 60 years ago are you referring to the Holocaust? That's not relevant? The Israeli's seem to be bringing that chestnut every time that someone questions the Knesset.

reply to post by RizeorDie


Yes, he was a Jew and their messiah. Not only did they kill one of their own for no reason but that person happened to be the one they've been begging god thousands of years for...

Still strike two..

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by buttking

 

...and what, pray, have others in the region attempted to do in several different wars to the Israelis?

As with every conflict, there is a flipside to the coin. No one is innocent...

Would you be willing to give the southwest US back to Mexicans at the expense and lives of the Americans who live there?

Would you be willing to give the rest of the country back to the Native Americans at the expense and lives of the Americans who live there?

Then how can anyone possibly support Israel?

reply to post by DaMod


yeh excatly, but they chose the wrong path and started to worship and listen to lucifer... the only power satan has is them, he tells them what to do, he awards them power and money, and he promises them a one eyed messiah who sits at the top of the pyramid...

FACT:

David and Solomon were MYTHS .. LEGENDS

Judaims FORBIDS jews to live in the holy lands until the coming of the jewish messiah (so why are they there ?)


please see my post above for references and excerpts

Whew, I'm lucky to be an atheist thereby immune from a "Curse" by the alleged loving and benevolent creator.

Ethnocentrist much?

When I pass, I suspect it'll just be a big dirt nap. Heck I don't mind sleeping. I look forward to it every night. It is the waking up I dread.

Besides, what ever happened to separation between church and state?

Jews have NO claim to Israel

They resided in the region for approx. 400 years out of that region's tens of thousands of years history


As was said, when european zionists were pushing their 'return to israel' con: ' Jews lived in the region for approx. the same amount of time as the Romans occupied Britain. And the Romans left Britain in FAR better condition than the jewish tribes left what is now the Holy Land'


Britain has existed for millions of years. The Romans were there approx. 400 years only

EXACTLY the same situation as jews re: the Holy Lands


In any event, the 'jews' of today are the descendants of Tatars and Khazars, a sex-cult religion who converted to Judaism. The 'israelis' of today have NO semitic blood and their 'homeland' is central europe

Rep. Bachmann's claims are ludicrous

She claims Americans should be impoverished, should kill and die for NON-semitic descendants of Khazarian jewish converts --- or HER 'god' will curse Americans

Who votes for that fool ? Will you be voting for her again ? Will you be fighting for 'israel' again ?


[edit on 9-2-2010 by Dock9]

reply to post by buttking


Hear hear! I have no sympathy for the Israelis either. As to why each and every American president swears to support Israel immediately, I think if one failed to do this, he or she would shortly be forgotten. I too see the suffering of the Palestinian people, and wish something come be done to help the situation over there. The thing is, the reason they all fight and squabble over that little worthless piece of real estate is because of things written a few thousand years ago, after Yahweh instructed his "people" to kill everyone who got in their way in making this land theirs alone. You know, Yahweh, Deity of the Jewish people and Christianity seems to be like a very spoiled child who needs a spanking. And further, if God were going to curse America, it would have happened long before this.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Why do we let crazy people become lawmakers?
These people are insane!
They need psychiatric help but instead we give them seats in politics?

I too wonder at this, I mean we know better, and there are a few good people who run, but we always listen and do what the TV tells us to do, don't we? I would love to see Ron as president and Jessie Ventura as vice president, and Roseanne Barr as secretary of state. Think anybody would mess with us then?

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
Let's see here...

our middle class has evaporated, we have 2 wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that have killed tens of thousands of people, our financial system practically bankrupted the country, we have trillions in debt, our quality of healthcare is one of the lowest among industrialized nations even though costs continue to skyrocket, our courts sold our nation to foreign companies, our entire political system is completely bent on serving itself and its corporate backers, we have 10% unemployment, and practically no remaining industry within our borders.

Is this how God blesses a nation that supports Israel?

I think I'd rather try and kiss Shiva's butt or something. Bachmann's God is a total sociopath.

I totally agree! America is broke because of GWBs wars, and we are still fighting them, aren't we? Just today I signed a petition to keep the Patriot Act from being reinstated...do you believe this?

The badly misnamed Patriot Act is not the Act of Patriots. It is the act of petty tyrants seeking more and more power and control over our country.

Now, ever so quietly, the Obama administration is working with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi to sneak reauthorization of the Patriot Act through without creating a stir among liberty-minded Americans.

Well, I'm for making a stir. A BIG STIR.

sign the petition here.


Sure glad I don't have to fall on my knees for this god.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by freetree64
It's not that they claim to know the will of God jethro, it's that they interpet the Scripture's in the Bible to be the one true word of God, and that is their belief system, so I think they are entitled to that.....

I disagree.

When any religion claims to know the will of God, which many do and frequently, then apply that "knowledge" to policy choices, I call shenanigans.

In any case, it was mamabeth I was referring to specifically as she SAID she knew what God would do.

Additionally, interpretations of the Bible don't always work out too nicely.

I too was astounded at that statement. Let me see here, I read a book written a very long time ago, and that will tell me what God is thinking about a situation right now?
This is the bent logic most Christians use to back up what they think they know. Sadly, I hardly think the real God and Goddess would even admit to knowing most of them.

I only heard one person speak of the separation of Church and State as is prescribed in the Constitution, but it is still there, people. Government and Church must remain separate lest we Americans live like the Muslims do, where religion is the state.

reply to post by kinda kurious


Well, I understand where you are coming from, but the United States was founded because a bunch of people wanted to escape religious persecution. So basically freedom of religion was our first right evar!

Kinda hard to separate that when it is so deeply embedded into the heritage. The upside, you can believe in nothing freely so basically it's a win win right?

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

Well, I understand where you are coming from, but the United States was founded because a bunch of people wanted to escape religious persecution. So basically freedom of religion was our first right evar!

Hmmm. I always thought it was to escape tariffs and taxes.

I had little respect for Bachmann before for her opposition to Cap and Trade and big government...

But now, it's over. I've lost all respect for her. She's an Israeli shill, a crazy religious/end times nut, those people are dangerous.

Please kick her out at the next election? Thank you.

reply to post by kinda kurious


Well if that was the case you would think there would have been an escape from terrifs and taxes.

But really if you don't believe me then ask yourself this question. How many of the original colonists where Anglican and Catholic?

Kinda clears it up eh?

[edit on 9-2-2010 by DaMod]

reply to post by buddhasystem


Demagogue: "A leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power."

Can one really be a demagogue on a website where their opinion is firmly rooted in the minority? Interesting use of words, Buddha.

In reality, I don't think Pat Tillman's death had anything whatsoever to do with Israel in any way. If you want to argue that his death was intentional and intended to be a way to drum up faltering public support for an unpopularly tedious war (ie, propaganda that "This man gave up everything, his million dollar contract, his family, his life to defend the cause," etc...) then by all means, feel free. That can be argued sucessfully from either side.

I am not standing here as a great defender of Israeli foreign or domestic policy, either. I'm merely saying that I understand the logic behind keeping them as a close ally, both from a strategic purpose and a religious perspective.

Originally posted by intrepid
The USS Liberty took place 42 years ago and has been the stuff that CT is made of. If you're talking about 60 years ago are you referring to the Holocaust? That's not relevant? The Israeli's seem to be bringing that chestnut every time that someone questions the Knesset.

No, that was a typo by me. I was thinking "over 40 years ago" when I started my reply and somehow that got turned into 1947 in my brain, thus the 60 years ago comment. My bad.

The Holocaust has nothing to do with this at all. In fact, the Holocaust was regarding the religion: Judaism... I'm talking solely about the nation of Israel (which, granted is composed mostly of Jews.) Not every Jew is an Israeli just as not every Israeli is a Jew. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the positioning of the nation of Israel as God's chosen people goes far beyond the Jews as, by definition, the Jews who did acknowledge and accept Christ ceased to be Jews, yet were still held as God's chosen according to the Bible.

FYI, I'd also say the Tillman incident is the stuff conspiracy theories are made of, as well. A friendly fire incident involving probably the best known US soldier in which evidence has demonstrated he numerous times identified himself as a friendly, yet was still executed with C.O. permission.