Yahweh is a storm god

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Even though Jesus was great...he didnt let others tell him he was...he told them...only God is good. He prayed to God, and called God 'father'. I think Jesus taught 'oneness'...my body is your body, my blood is your blood.

Yes, one of us. As natural people in a natural world, we do share the same body and blood. We all, people on the earth, are one people.

But I hear so often people worshiping him, in Jesus name Amen ect....I think this leads to one place....which is being reborn without choice.

This does lead to a question of rebirth. Is it natural, or unnatural? Which leads to a discussion of the most terrifying vision I ever had, which I call:

The Abomination of Desolation or A Crying Shame

I was contemplating the life-cycle of the butterfly; from egg to caterpillar to cocoon and eventually the butterfly, and the cycle continues. I became the egg, emerged to the hunger and ate and ate, not thinking but following the instinct. Natural also was the drive to spin the silk thread, attach to the twig. The sleep, the unconsciousness as what is natural took place, hidden inside the cocoon. To awaken, crawl out of the encasement, spread wings to dry. Set off to find the nectars, the purer food, not mixed with cellulose, the ambrosia of the gods.

The mating, the laying of the eggs, the emerging to eat. Once again as caterpillar I was eating. A shadow moved above me, I felt a terrible pain on my back. While thrashing in pain, I caught a glimpse of a wasp flying away. As the pain receded I went back to eating, forgot the pain. Eventually the time came to spin the silk, attach to the twig. At this point, I withdrew to watch from a distance. The time came for the butterfly to emerge, but instead of a butterfly there emerged four wasps. The hope and anticipation was shattered.

I started running. I was half way to the library before I could get the sobbing and screaming under control. I checked out a book on entomology and discovered that sure enough there are wasps that lay eggs in caterpillars. The wasp larvae eat the caterpillar while it's in the cocoon developing.

Is rebirth in the spirit natural, or is it an alien process? Are there two completely different experiences described as 'born again?' Is God as Spirit with us and in us naturally or is God the Spirit an alien other?

Since butterfly is one of my totems rather than wasp, you can see which way I lean.



[edit on 14-2-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by pthena

It's possible that perfected people get their spirit body upon death and ascend, and others wait in sheol as shades awaiting a certain day of resurrection.

I'm working on reading "Shades of Sheol", what the Old Testament says about death and the afterlife. I haven't made a lot of progress through it. Job, Psalms, Proverbs, and Isaiah are the only places that talk about it (Sheol, a proper noun, with no "the" or "a" with it), and what I am getting from the author is that it is spoken of as not a place you want to go to, or be stuck in. I will have to do a better book review on it, later.


[edit on 14-2-2010 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by jmdewey60

not a place you want to go to, or be stuck in.

It's an old concept, even in Homer's Odyssey. Shades are nothing but markers of what once was human, there is no memory, all is gone. Very sad.

If you watch a movie starring someone who has since died, that movie image is more the person than the person's shade. Very sad.

reply to post by pthena



All I have to say is one thing. If there is a God that allows that to happen, it is a sad one. A sad one indeed. That is just how I see it. Like it; lump it or # it.


[edit on 15-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by pthena


Hello Pthena!

It sounds to me like the wasp taking over the caterpillar is simply a system of a food chain. All creatures need food and want their young to have food and it seems that the wasp have figured out a way for their lava to have an endless source of food while young. This seems to be just a physical nature of a food chain. The wasp of course has no sympathy for a creature that can be food for its young. I dont think this connects with unseen spirit or souls that incarnate. But that is just me.

I found that the wasp do not only do this with the beautiful butterfly that we all love.

www.essortment.com...

The several different species of the ichneumon wasp are known to parasitize the larvae of tent caterpillars, silk moths, cutworms, tussock moths, fall webworms, butterfly caterpillars and in some cases, even their own species. Each species of this wasp tends to choose one host species to parasitize.

Just as a note...they even do it with their own species.

I also read that parasitic species are certain worms, planets, and certain creatures that can invade many different animals.

Could it not all be just a part of nature?

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

All I have to say is one thing. If there is a God that allows that to happen, it is a sad one. A sad one indeed. That is just how I see it. Like it; lump it or # it.

Note to readers This is philosophical discourse
I choose to # it. By "#" I mean "do something about".

I was taught at one time that writing was developed as a means of introducing abstract thought, specifically in trade. It is easier to say, "I will trade you three goats for one cow", than it is to have three goats with you and point at the cow that also is there. Farmers would keep a grain in hand to represent a sack of grain. Then there were tally sticks and other devices.

What about people who lived and died in this world? How are they remembered? It's fine to be a hero, whose story in immortalized in ode and ballad; exploits in battle remembered forever. What about the other people; those who died alongside said hero, the remains of whom are sometimes either cremated all together, mass buried, or just left to be eaten by carrion eaters, their names not remembered?

It is indeed sad. How much sadder would it be if the Earth didn't remember! How much sadder if the Father did not remember! For each who lived and died, a grain of sand set aside. For each who lived and died, an oxygen molecule set aside. Sad that all I can see is a beach of sand. Sad that I can't even see the oxygen. It seems some small comfort to me that someone greater than me can put a name to each grain of sand and each oxygen molecule.

It has been said the least shall be greatest and the greatest least. Who can be the least unless they be the forgotten and ignored of the world. I do not presume to enter any glory until the forgotten are remembered. I will remain to turn out the lights and lock the door before I leave.

This is just philosophical talk. Isn't philosophy the love of wisdom?

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Could it not all be just a part of nature?

Sure, to the uninvolved observer. Not so for the caterpillar or the mother butterfly. I am the caterpillar. I am the butterfly.

I will tell another story I call:

Can History be Changed?

Once upon a time, a long time ago, a queen was in a tower. She had been condemned to death by beheading. As she awaited the morrow she prayed, "Dear God in heaven, may I at least see one sympathetic face." She turned her head left and slightly up and saw me. She kept her face impassive, showing neither startlement nor joy. I faded slowly from her sight.

For me this wasn't enough. In spirit I stayed with her. Not that I could feel what she felt, but just so she would not feel alone. Right up till the last sounds of jeering faded and stopped did I remain with her.

Was history changed? For her it was. Nothing changed for the cheering, jeering crowd of spectators.

There's another story here, about burning bridges:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 15-2-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by pthena


Your refusing to see that you are also the wasp...and the woman seeking a face of sympathy...and the crowd.

Life is within them all....they are one. Just as the butterfly and wasp both hold life within them...one is not better or greater then the other.

By just seeing with our material eyes, we will be saddened. See beyond the sky and the Earth...the force of life is neither greater or less then in either one of them. The bond of physical existence forces the need to survive, in us and all creatures.

Im only offering a different view...not a right or wrong. So either way, all taken with a grain of salt...or sand.

For a farmer who the caterpillar negatively affects its crops...thanks might be given to the wasp.

From my human perspective, of course I side with the beautiful butterfly. But parasites are similar to a virus who needs a host. Some say virus's have helped evolution in some ways. A virus must have a host. Does that make virus's evil or alien? What if virus's played a part in life coming into existence in a physical form? Should we not try to find sympathy for the larva of the wasp that are fighting to survive?

Im reminded of birds that lay their eggs in the nest of other birds and may even come to haunt the owner of the nest if it refuses to care for the eggs that are not theirs. Is this evil? Is it just a cycle of life? Should the cycles of life have sympathy for the fact that all life must consume another life to live? Should we be sad that we need fruit and vegetables to live?

Do you see where Im coming from with this? Just offering thoughts to further this discussion.

Would our empathy for others stop if we were in survival mode again for shelter, food, and safety?

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Your refusing to see that you are also the wasp...and the woman seeking a face of sympathy...and the crowd.

Life is within them all....they are one. Just as the butterfly and wasp both hold life within them...one is not better or greater then the other.

Of course that is true. Am I so great that I can be each of these things? There is One who is. To understand the All, can I bypass the individual? If the All is the summation, each unit must be accounted for.

I can only use totems I have earned in some way. Someone was hoping I was the lion and the eagle. I'm not, at least not at this time. I hope there is that one, at least for the sake of the person looking for him.

Should the cycles of life have sympathy for the fact that all life must consume another life to live? Should we be sad that we need fruit and vegetables to live?

Do you see where Im coming from with this? Just offering thoughts to further this discussion.

Would our empathy for others stop if we were in survival mode again for shelter, food, and safety?

If you are the wasp, does that make us enemies? Not in the final analysis. But for now we must still contend. The wars of man will not decrease at this time, they seem destined to increase before they will end. Is there any side that I am on? They are all my people. Still though, I have more empathy for those killed in their own homes and lands by those who traveled all the way from the other side of the world to kill. I would be deluding myself to say otherwise. I do not yet praise those who die in some one else's territory. There already seems to be enough praise for them from others.

So I am of the Earth, and must look up to see Sky. If you are of Sky then you can look down upon the Earth. Do you have a broader view? Indeed you do. Should I pretend to have such a broad view? Pretense, I believe, will not give me that broad view. I can tell where you are coming from. I keep in mind this saying:

MT 23:23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

Different people interpret this differently. For me 'justice, mercy, and faithfulness' apply to individual cases more than they do as generalities. And so you don't mis understand, I'm not quoting that at you, as others may do, that just happens to be the verse that mentions the two views and the betterness of keeping both.

Love and Peace.
pthena



[edit on 15-2-2010 by pthena]

Sometimes it's the parasite that gave the most to life.
The moment people try to give love, there will be taken from them,
because the role jesus played, one of love, is our endgoal,
ignorance is the jesus before it is his time,
when ignorance starts to give away,
it will loose more then it can give,
because it gives by carrying dirt, it gives by shame.

Love is not romantic in this world.
Romantic is our dream, our goal.
Dirt is the way. Loosing honor is the way.
Until freedom in every, every situation there
is a reflection, and how more sorries and reflections you gie,
how more people will step on you, how more life will
abuse you, and how more love you will have given
to the world, even when you feel naked and as dirty
as the ground your made of.

Who carries the cross ? Those in honor, or those without.
And when they become home, will they loose again,
because the world always learned one step behind,
and when they learn salvation is in the dirt,
how will they react when they see what is allready clean.

And still god is love.
But a God that is everything is as guilty as everything,
but because evrything didnt had choice to be everything,
he does not have choice in this world, but will start
his everythingness, in the dirt, not in the sky.
Look down, and you will see God.
Because behind every wrong there is a good,
behind ignorance there is no good,
because they didnt go wrong.

The lion, is a warrior, one that learns to defend
himself by attacking himself, instead of the other.

As hinduism teaches us, the demigods are only
exsisting in Krishna, the Only God.
There is only one god, and he takes responsibility,
also for the wrong of the prophets,
because they brought god his glory (=to be all as one),
the u-turn, he needs to be everything,
but still progressive,
something ignorance does not at the right speed.
Peace in a world that functions as hell,
is the real parasite. Peace is our goal. Not our home yet.

I talk in a hard sounding way to explain this,
ofcourse there is place for peace, even in hell,
but to forgive God, Life, understand the limits,
and difference between absolute and relative.
Making the relative absolute is the sin
against the spirit. Reflecting = repenting is our way.




[edit on 15-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pthena


Well, all of that does make one wonder. I tend to think that any deity that knows of every grain of sand surely understands the motive of that sand. Now, with that being said, there is nothing to blame.

Blame is a human characteristic. The true God has no need for it. That is why I am so adamantly against the anthropomorphizing of God. Humanity has no right to try and take a being, of which it has no understanding, and place human characteristics upon it. Yet, that is what man, particularly organized institutions, have tried to do to God over the centuries.

that's what they had to do,
how would you be able to say what you say rightly now,
if they didn't go wrong,
and if they wouldn't have gone wrong,
how would god be everything ?

And how can a god that is everything,
not allow you to understand him.
Truth is explainable, in it's right time.

reply to post by pasttheclouds
In many ways I may seem to be the one eyed fellow of prophecy who leads people astray by false miracles. Even if I can only see clearly with one eye though, I can see some reflection that shows that there is more to be seen which is not clear to me.

With visions and identifying with different creatures and people I limp along trying to catch up with Logic. I think you called visions part of ignorance. Then ignorant I am still. Yet still I move, walking in many directions, seeking the straight way. I haven't given up yet.



[edit on 15-2-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by pthena


How can you be one eye, if your other eye sees a questionmark
in every answer that comes in. You turn the cheeck.
But eye for an eye, judgements will reflect back to you,
there is no defender without accuser first.
And God does not regard individuality out of his oneness,
the u-turn is bigger then personalities, some personalities
are their whole lives in the going down, so others can go up.

You speak love, and thats why you are in the knowledge
of your own blindness.

But you have two eyes. And they will see All.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by pasttheclouds

And how can a god that is everything,
not allow you to understand him.

How can you understand everything? The human mind isn't capable of understanding everything.

Thats your assumption. One day that mind, which does not exsist,
will be free and see Gods face. God is truth, truth is a structure,
that structure is logic, and logic you can see by seeing what is not true first (repenting=reflecting).
(better to say is truth is the opposite of structure, it is free,
and free is what you will become, because structure will be unveiled,
but the structure is the veil, the inside is the all, turned around god is his own veil)
(if you can't understand me yet, start with understanding how
duality gives god the glory of oneness, the reason of misunderstanding Yahweh)

But still the moment you see Gods face,
you can only be God.

An atom only exsists in the function of the time
it is seen in. Where the lie rules, everything is functionality.
And functionality as logic is the arc carrying Gods free will.
A free will that does not have a logic except the
turn around of the truth exsisting here.
Here is Logic alive, paving gods glory, turned around it is free will,
and does not need formulas. The moment it falls from heaven,
the world will come home. Because of functionality.



[edit on 15-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds

And God does not regard individuality out of his oneness,
the u-turn is bigger then personalities, some personalities
are their whole lives in the going down, so others can go up.

JN 3:10 "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

I'm still speaking of earthly things. I feel compelled to continue down that path. Then down still further, The joy of the reaper and of the sower is one. Jesus said such a thing. I am still sowing.

We live in twilight
Ask God eyes for your feet,
For every age you live in a pair.
Gods word is progressive,
so read progressive.
Heaven and earth will mix now.
Now is the time of the double effort for all.

Still, although salvation and oneness in him comes through you,
but god has all the eyes, use all the eyes he offers you.
Although some people on their way teach salvation comes through you,
it is better to say it comes through god, where your eyes will really see,
it becomes all the eyes, so use every eye god offers you, because
they work together.

reply to post by pasttheclouds

Still, although salvation and oneness in him comes through you,
but god has all the eyes, use all the eyes he offers you.

Then I can use every totem I can without limit of what my religion dictates. Most only use four, but already I use five. I do have 2 spares. So I should use the spares now, that would make seven.

A child also bumps into every wall,
by doing this learns to avoid the next bigger ones.
Preparation is reflection is a child.
And it is better to cut off the feet of your own lie then abort the little child in you.
You are made in pairs. You. You are 2, dual. Your child is one.

What is the difference between the oneness
of gospel, torah, Abraham, Quran, Hinduism,
and the salvation of buddhism and the
the endpoint of logic, truth as absolute.
The difference is interpretation. But is interpretation truth ?
If hinduism says there is only one absolute personal God,
then what are the demigods ? A lie you choose to believe,
as stated in their texts, they are an indirect way,
but salvation as human is for the ones who see the whole.

The world will fight yes, based on interpretation,
but an absolute is not divided.

If you start using your spare eyes, you will use 7, and you will see the sun stand still soon.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]