Yahweh is a storm god

Originally posted by GerhardSA

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by gandhi

 

I disagree, for the one that is Holy, the Divine Unseen, is nameless, for Thee cant not be limited by such a thing as human language. It surpasses all forms of names....as same God, different name...only means that one doesnt understand, the True God, has no name.

Every time God is given a name, Thee is limited.

God has a name. it is said as far back as Solomon, Moses, Even Lilith(adams 1st wife)
the Greeks called it a "Tetragrammaton", "a terrible and wonderfull name consisting of 4 letters". "IHVH". no one knows how to pronouce it, al least in the general public. but it is said that he does have a name. not Yahweh or Jehovah. all wrong...what it is, we will probably never know or have a clue, unless maybe if you are a 33rd Degree Master Mason.
King Solomon speaks of it in his book on the Secret knowledge and arts of the Mysteries to his son Roboam.
There is def a name! no question about it. The closest men to God throughout the ages speak of a 4 letter name, so it must be so

First...lets start with what you said that it is said as far back as Lilith...care to show that? It seems to be a borrowed form of magic if you will. You also mentioned Solomon...have you not ever read about the keys of Solomon? About involving angels and demons...and the use of magic? Melchizedek seems to of brought the El and Yahweh together for Abraham to accept (even though we do see Yahweh as early as Genesis....I believe this was added there).

Plus...I dont believe those in the OT was really following the true God. For the path that I walk, the God I have been comforted by and shown things by....is not of the same nature. Not only that, but my path of learning with God has been full of hours and hours and days and weeks and months and now years of showing me how the OT is more of a history of a people that used 'god' to gain what they were in need of. There is some honesty there, some did seek with a honest heart, and the Holy Spirit was there....but most of the time we are accepting a dark nature that is more Earthly then of spirit, in the OT.

What was Gods name before language....before humans....before creation....why would the, what is without boundaries and limits, have a name?

Sometimes when I feel like Im being guided by the spirit during my study, certain things will jump out at me. I read one day in a gnostic text (no I dont except even half of what they say) that God was nameless....and my spirit within me sang. How do I tell another this is truth? I cant. Nor I dont want to. I only claim it as truth to me. You are more then welcome to follow the OT image of God and believe Thee has a name and even a gender if you like. I say to you, from my view, that you limit what is holy. You attach things of Earth to Thee. Some of the earliest proofs of the 'name of god' are not found to be a LONE god...but with a wife. There are several reasons, not just one reason....that I have stopped looking at God with a name....those that came out of Egypt came out in very dark times that was full of magical things, all based on geometry, numbers, letters, stars, planets, elements, ect.....

I think one should be aware of how we see in the OT...many different beliefs coming into one...many different images of god also come into one. We are seeing how the people resolved some problems with the many gods....we are seeing, the belief of many gods, folding into one. We can see how the history of many lands are within the OT stories. It actually gives more credence to the fact that these were real people in a very real time having a very hard life.

But each to their own...for what you find to be truth of man and God is your personal path.

Peace to you
LV

Plus you said the closest men to god knew of this name...I am cautious to say that those in the OT were 'close' to God....for the God image they walked with is very different then my personal experience. In fact, I will go as far as to say I have experienced much deep sadness with the Spirit about the accounts by man, about God. I would of been willing to do anything God asked me to...to fix it all for Thee. The answer I got was....all with time, time will heal it all, it must be done just as it is.

I Just wont go back to learning about 'god' form the OT. But I do study it for history and now and then I see the Holy Spirit within it giving me a 'wink'.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by LeoVirgo]

Edit to change a date of the earliest finding of the 'name of god' ....I thought there was proof it was found as early as 3000 bc but after looking again, I found this not to be so at all.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 17-2-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply to post by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU


What you mentioned does seem to be the true purpose of the use of the 'name' of god. Does that mean it is a name of god...well not for me. But I found understanding of why the Hebrews came up with what they did through ancient texts of the Hebrew outside of the Bible. They were very caught up in the use of planets, stars, sounds, numbers, and letters. I find it safe to say they were simply obsessed with it all.

Using the zodiac can be iffy....for the circle of the zodiac was created way before another culture added the 'animals'. So we are looking at something that had evolved through a few different lands and cultures and ended up being accepted by many. The circle of the animals doesnt go very far back as what most think....for a long time it was only a divided circle with 12 equal parts, without any 'Scorpio' ect.

But I do agree...they were obviously really into reading deep into the meanings and mystical uses, if you will, of the blueprint of creation.

I think I should also add through my study and time with the Spirit...that I learned God never left us a material book. So yeah, I dont take any book as offering information left to us by God.

Saying that...I do think that some men were walking closely with the Spirit and we do have some spiritual wisdom's that were left behind be them, through writings.

Gods book is within life itself, Gods book was written before man ever uttered a word.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply to post by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU


Doesn't one of the far eastern religions state that God sung the universe into existence?

God loves to sing

reply to post by LeoVirgo


I agree, to the greatest extent, with your post. I do tend to think, though, that the Gnostics probably had the right idea about much of what they said.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Well, one has to remember that much of what was written was passed down from generation to generation. Now, stories and sayings tend to get mixed up badly!! If you don't believe that, you can go into a crowded room and whisper a phrase into one person's ear and tell them to pass it on. By the time it gets to the last person, see what phrase they were told. It will be completely, and I mean utterly, different from the original phrase.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by LeoVirgo


I never react to much on what you say because i think your thinking is beautifull, but everytime i read your posts one thing really gets me to react, it is the following,
you believe so hard in a oneness, and you've read so much, but in the end you can't get over the fact yet that when god exsists as one, there is no randomness, and everything functional. God did let his truth behind for us to find, we find it in logic, but that logic was only able to be build because of the scriptures left behind, it's direct reaction, confusing and its duality hidden in it, that does tell truths in nuances, in sensitive tones, levels, that wouldnt be found without the confusion scriptures gave us.
In other words, scriptures formed our history and brought us the possibility to find god in logic, in a oneness everything connects back to each other, and no person will find salvation without digesting from everything around him. In even hard words, without scriptures and the truths in it, logic couldn't be found in it's most optimal way, and god could not exsist as one and optimal. Yes god is free of demands, but god can die when he does not want to fullfill his own demands, through us humans. The bible contains that secret, which logic confirms by the secrets handed over by the scriptures.

There does not exsist a person seperated from god, so if logic is to be full, every single person is an extension of what will be in salavation, and it's the endwork of the All, of God himself. There is no salvation by yourself, there is a 'way' for your personality, but the endpoint comes by god himself. That is the point god sees himself as to be one in full, as god, where the lie (person) dies. There is maybe a brain in your body, but it can not work when there is a God. That brain is a symbol of your way, of your being, not something that works independantly out and away from gods allowance.

People can choose to grow, way or no way
Functionality decides your, that way.
Choice allows you to fullfill functionality.
Even salvation is not random given away.
One means optimal, no randomness possible.

It's not Moses learnt accidently from Egypt, it is Moses was destined to be teached in Egypts secrets because they were ( a mirror of jesus which was ) a mirror of the son of man before in time they were allowed to exist. It means one can be one with god, be you before it is you living allready in him as one will . If you meet One in salvation, he is you, before you are him.
That's why he was before creation, and still has to come, and always is.
That's why the beast never is, was, and will be.

take care as always.

Jesus did not want to be worshipped as jesus, but as one,
because he knew people couldn't see him, he did not want him
to worship him as a person. But its does not take away his oneness,
if people could have seen jesus body included the guy next door having
malaria or whatever disease, the question would be, would they still kneel ?
But god is that, god is the lowest and the highest. And when someone becomes in salvation, he can not not forgive.
What i tell now, explains why people will react on oneness when it comes down on earth. They will see a person, not oneness. Oneness includes you as the body.
Oneness will agree to be attacked for the cause it carries. And loves the people that will attack it. Offers are never random.

Oneness does not come to explain the world the mysterie, because they can not bear it yet. Oneness and its mystery are so complex people would confuse it with a bad god, in the same way they confuse the torah with a bad god. Oneness comes to bring hope, the explination is the mystery that those who live in only questions and need will receive. Oneness will explain by both shining (function) as through every living person, parts of its mystery, and will SHOW the goal. Just as you explain the goal in love, but still look indirect to that oneness, to avoid seeing the responsibility of insanity. If people would look direct into the responsibility of insanity, they will discover what the oneness really means, but that is the biggest job, because there , is no rest until god clears the last detail.

A real prophet always went wrong first, there is no prophet that wasn't judging god first. Jacob fighted God and wins, because jacob is gone, and israel born.
The prophets of the old testament could not always read their own law yet, Elijah killed parts of his God before he became glorified. God was clear still,accusing is only possible when I do not exsist, so follow curse or blessing, and find witnesses or oneness. But still before One is found, dividing is pre-condition. That's why people react on the god of the old testament, a god that was always clear, do not judge me as GOAL. Daniel promised us the prince would know another god then his forefathers, that prince is not the antichrist, but we people becoming one. But first the prince. Maitreya does it meand 1 person, or does it mean just as the son of man, the annointed one, different levels coming down. Elijah is God himself. The seal of the prophet, the quran explained us, no prophet is full in the seal except as god himself.

Listen, more then i want to preach towards you, i want to loose what i have,
because the law makes one confirm with his mouth was is inside, this is called honesty. If i can't write it down, i could never have forgiven God, the way towards god is not always one of love, but also a way of hate. It's easy to forgive our neighbour, it is more difficult to forgive those that touch a child, those that touch the essence of our soul.
That's why we preach, and thats why we dislike the others preaching, because until the end, we judge God.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


I believe in spiritual oneness, I dont believe in oneness in a sense of flesh and spirit being a perfect oneness. Flesh causes distortion to the spirit...the perfection of the spirit is not obvious to all in the flesh and to some the spirit is not even known.

Saying that, I dont believe in randomness. All things serve a purpose for the Spirit in that all things offer an opportunity for a person to get to know the difference between what is of Earth and what is of Spirit. Man must know things of Earth before learning things of heaven.

I know you see that heaven and earth will join and will be perfect. I dont believe this to be so. Earth is finite...Spirit is infinite. My flesh body has a beginning and end...my spirit body is eternal.

All things here have a purpose....but just because it is written that man did a certain thing for God does not make it so. Moses and Jesus were not similar. Moses lived for things of Earth...Jesus lived for things of Spirit.

The oneness is in the fact that both bring opportunity for awareness to a path that is and a path that is not. If one can recognize both paths for what they are...a person can see the need for both. If there is a need for both...then ONENESS is in the need...not the both.

Rambling with language of such things may be more confusing then not. So for further discourse...mabey give a couple detailed questions for thought and I will also try to keep responses or questions simple.

Logic of duality has always been here, the offering of this is in the blueprint of life. Humans enjoy getting caught up in details of stories thinking this leads them to understand God. Frankly, it has brought more confusion about God then before books were ever written.

Pass on more thoughts!! Lets see where it goes....

I dont believe this experience is about forgiving God whom is perfect! Its about forgiving the self so we can accept what we have done for our Earthly existence as well as other beings. Its a life of sifting out so we can come to know God for what Thee is.....for this to happen...we must experience what Thee is not. The purpose of both leads to ONE. But we must remember, experiences of an Earthly existence birth things like pride, greed, anger, and jealousy. These things dont exists in heaven or in true oneness, they only exists in the plains of material existence. We can barely imagine what this perfectness is because we have this Earthly body that processes things by feelings and desires.

Edit to add...just rambling more...I know..I said I would try to keep it simple and detailed...sorry.

Imagine yourself in a small family that is focused on simple survival. No outside influences to tell you what is and what is not. No books to tell you where you came from. Would you not 'feel' a force within the mysterious wind, water, and sun? When you learned that without the sun, you dont have food...would you not wonder about this unseen force? When you learn that your food must have water and that is it doesnt rain you have to go get the water yourself to grow your food...would you not find this mysterious? Like the ancient found lightening and thunder mysterious....and claimed God was these things. Do you not think that a singing bird would not awaken your wonders of something greater then yourself?

Gods blueprint of life has always held things within it to make us wonder, ponder, and seek.

Tell me of something that you believe you NEED to know about God...that you cant find without a book....lets start there.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by LeoVirgo]

you reaction allready is one of defense
it goes quick, to release unrest when truth wishes to be heard.
Its not a judgement anymore, i was always in defense.

I am sorry, but this truth, a cross needs the locust,
and the locust is the wall that makes your way.

How can there be a spiritual oneness, if oneness does not exsist ?
How can you belief, if what you see is not a belief, spiritual ?
Is the television not a belief then ?
We all belief that to be true ? Is that belief ? is your body real ?
What do you belief ? Is that belief a belief ?
How can there be no randomness, if there is not optimal ?
If there is Oneness, how can things be not optimal ?

yes, simple and crazy, thats why people can not see.
Honesty is the condition to find truth.
Love is more then romantic, in a short time, after a
time of peace, there will be a hurricane, and
do we wish people to avoid BEING that hurricane ?
Do you wish for yourself, to avoid reacting out the locust ?
or do we stay talking what we like to hear ?

what is ignorance then ?

I told you, the mystery will be hidden for most,
but the goal is more important, i do not tell you this
to tease, i tell this because i have to, and i wish to react,
as you react on others.

I wish you all my love,sincere.
But lets be honest, romantic feelings dissapear
when different levels of preparation can not handle what is in sight.

Keep the love, that love will forgive the hardest truths,
love will bring people home,
but love will also grow cold, and negelecting that,
is not opening toward a bigger truth.

There are no other words for me right now to explain what i try to explain,
it is what it is now.

Every time i write something, there is less anger.
But love will meet anger, and i know that is what you try to avoid.
As i tried to avoid it.

Every contradiction waits to be seen.

the prophets (before glorified) were israels pain,
mother theresa and gandhi, and mandela,
were warriors. Mandela as progressive building on Gandhi understood when people
reach a level of capacity they will fight,
if you react angry on words,
how will you react on deeds, when they happen ?

preparation, as connected to no randomness.
The best Jihad is against the self, what you
prepared you will not take.

You say it is not about forgiving god, he is perfect, who is he,
if he is not real ? And if he is, he is absolute, and absolute includes,
not excludes, so what else is there to do, then to forgive god ?
This is the start to see gods face, you do not need a book for this.
The only thing we can do is to forgive life, and when we do
we will release lies.
How can we forgive LIFE, if we ignore the pain he did not only to us,
but to ALL of us, to every child ever hurted on this planet.
Love is more then romance.
love = accepting = setting free = setting god free =
setting truth as absolute free

btw, im done, only editing some grammar jaja



[edit on 17-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

I was editing while you were typing and posting.

So Ill read your post..and you can read the addition to mine at the end.

Always a joy...
LV

reply to post by pasttheclouds


Well there you go confusing me again...because I cant make any sense of your post. ( I mean this with all kindness, Im sincerely trying)

You seem to think that everything must be of God if oneness exists.

You seem to think Hate is of God as well as love...sense oneness exists?

Tell me if I misunderstand?

Is there a difference to you between perfect and not perfect?

Dark and light are not the same...but they both are used to reach a understanding that serves ONE purpose. The purpose is spiritual.

This is hard with words to pass between us...but Im on no defense here...so feel free to chat away! And please, correct me where I misunderstand and please dont take wrongly anything I try to word to you personally.

Much love
LV

I get the feeling we could go back and forth all evening with this...with only meeting back at the same place...but Im more then willing to continue, Ill check back now and then through the evening.



[edit on 17-2-2010 by LeoVirgo]

ummm....setting God free???

Care to elaborate on that one....?

ofcourse my posts are confusing.
Truth is not confusing, thats why nly truth can see truth.
Thats why only god can see god.

Read my post again if you are interested,
because you are right, i would talk in vain if i stay repeating.

some things to think about:
Duality is your world, so oneness is confusing :-)
Oneness can not exist without actually being one :-)
Love is another word for setting free, to set free,
we first have to trap it, judge it. If we ignore,
there is nothing to set free.
So yes, love will bring hate, Jesus told that, and logic
tells that, and experience in life tells that. Why is it
that we love to forgive ? because we wish to know god is ONLY good,
but still we hate it while trying to forgive.

I was every second f my life in defense, it is not a shame,
but a quality, i could not sleep knowing children close to me
were hurted, knowing my friends were hurted, knowing
my family was hurted. I could only survive by forgiving,
which i had to do because i hated. And there is no pain
bigger then hate. Ignorance does not hate, why would
they care ? so it will not become guilty of bringing pain,
because searchin justice will make you in need of justice.
From time to time you will not find justice and
act the same as what you judge.
Trying to forgive, will give you the need to be forgiven.

A dual world for a Life that is one,
it allows ONE to be what he is not.
the paradox. duality of the torah, gospels and quran.



[edit on 17-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

setting god free...
does truth exist ?

if yes, then it is absolute ?
if there are different truths exsisting,
do they come together in the absolute truth ?

That absolute truth, is it dependant on what ?
a bigger absolute truth or is it free ?
is that God ?

do we set truth free ? how ? by understanding, truth is set free by forgiving, which is giving. so seeing truth is first seeing what is lie,
this is repenting. Logic is found by seeing first EVERYTHING that
can not be true, to see the lies you first have to see them as truths,
the demons (lies) you drive out, will come back 7fold,
more and more work Love is setting god free.

by the way, truth is simple, so simple it sounds crazy,
thats why its for children. it can't bear honor.

by the way, i am still talking about the subject of the thread,
why the torah is misunderstood,
how do you explain oneness to what is dual ?
And how can oneness be everything, including what it is not ?

Is there anything else then belief ? energy ?
is energy believed to be true ?

enough no


[edit on 17-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

You make me wonder...yes.

Im going to read again later on your posts...while thoughts wonder until You have made me think...but not so much about the book...but...well...*smiles*

Time for the world that is...or is not? Hmm when it would have to be 'that is'


Gotta cook and tend to my evening for now..


LV

the book is important for the total flow of history,
not expecially for one person,
but because there is nothing except the total,
even that book will flow through example me
or any other person here back to you.

The holy books, and the religions were very important,
but sometimes their value is processed by others,
and you can use thier processing, to process yourself
But even personal processing is dependant of
the optimality of the whole.
there is still a paradise, choice gives more rest.
Destiny is double servant.

time for rest.
If i would explain truth in one minute,
where is your cross, if i take your cross,
how can you be one. and equal.
this is the reason why jesus left.
and the prophets left.
Also because in One your choice is what reads
and brings words to you. In the pure theology of oneness,
it is you writing this to you, if you judge me, it is you reflecting
yourself back through me towards you.

take care.


[edit on 17-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

A Name is a descriptive term representing a Being (HUaH), "Existence" (HaYaH) is the first name the Biblical epic gives 'GOD' (Genera Opera Demoli; a Creative cycle) at the 'burning bush' E'HaYaH ESheR E'HaYaH reveals that He Exists -selective/choosing- Existence, but how can that be when a creator must accept what he creates? He can't continue undoing- redoing- adjusting- or deny it which is, and yet it is the presentation of Him -this is the closest example defining "Perfection" we find in Scripture.

I only use 'He Him His' here for the masculine (transmitive) form of language used rather than feminine (receptive), and where the Name is in the third person from then on (he 'To Be'). Where we thought perfection was we found flaw and began to doubt founding the Sciences, which revealed that slow 'regeneration' was happening and 'everlasting' was impossible and eternity incomprehensible.

Then we were committed to the Nuclear Space Age at about the same time 'aliens' were in a human race against the destruction determined from the creation which was realized, not realizing that it was all prophesied from the first man having the Hyoid bone for sounding the vowels to sing it which the drum and flute had revealed -the 7 tones. We only have the books of Moses to tell of the sevens of days Week from the beginning, but there's evidence for it being the most ancient Calendar (as preserved with the DSS).

The Tepe of oldest Mesopotamia show man at that same time calculating the circle of the Earth with Solar alignment and inscription of the animals of the Zodiac, and that's 12,000 BP!
Ye'aH (Bared/Toted; an infant-man-flying man) doesn't show up till Abrahams time but it is along with EL (To/Toward -Intention; the earth on it's `tilted` axis) a glyph found worldwide (6-continents!).

The Mountain of God is in fact Jabal Al Loz in the NW Arabian Hijaz, but that range formed from the long ago Geological collision of plates not volcanic activity (I've even got a Zircon to prove it) yet the top 1/3 of that particular mount of the 5 has been obsidianized. The rock from below there is interesting because its breakage is in flat layered tables and hews square, but it cannot be inscribed because its fine layers make for chipping that resists tooling, yet it is an extremely strong hard and heavy stone.

That agreement where it was originally a 'perfect' top line EN'KI E'HUaH ELaHIK EShR, became YeHUaH which was really a sin of the Israelites turning I into He, but it wasn't as bad as their turning AYiL (the ram) into ELePh (the ox) to Him which made the covenant with man based on LA (No/Not do) the reversal thus opposite of EL rather than the Goal/Objective (ELaH) and consecrated with Sabbath (ShaBaT sit-set-desist) being a covenant in death (an ossuary size ark). Instead of the direction of life being the agreed upon which would require achievement to attain to as "Commandments" they are really Denials of granted continuance.

That mountain became N4, a set of towers on the highest level place in proximity to enforce the no-fly-zone on Iraq, but after Desert Storm the Saudis took it over and it is what offers up Jerusalem.
But that was where Abraham offered his 2nd son and recieved the ram, and YeShUaA born (the second "son of God" to Adam, the Messiah to preside for the Sabbath) lived and died and was raised from (the water his surname and) death "the Son of man" (BiN HaEDaM successor- the humanity), and He said to Abraham 'YeaH Provided' at the same place he was crossed up and affixed (it was a white altar, the stone the buiders rejected because that place was BeiT HaSaQiLaH the place of stoning (now the municipal bus sta.), and he said -angels later echoing- that He would come on the clouds of the powers of the heavens having force and great brilliance.

It's profound that He did in fact place His name E'HUaH there in that White limestone hillock -and as YeHUaH amid those 5 pits in a row where His stake was set with a cross reading:
Yeshuaa Hanetzeri Umelech Hayehudim
YHUH
INRI

[edit on 2010/2/17 by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU]

reply to post by pasttheclouds

If i would explain truth in one minute,
where is your cross, if i take your cross,
how can you be one. and equal.
this is the reason why jesus left.
and the prophets left.
Also because in One your choice is what reads
and brings words to you. In the pure theology of oneness,
it is you writing this to you, if you judge me, it is you reflecting
yourself back through me towards you.

I don't think you have to worry about explaining truth to us in one minute. Even if you did, we wouldn't understand it. I must confess that I only seem to understand about one fourth of what you say. And I appreciate that much.

You have said that insanity can be stopped 'with space' or capacity. I can believe that is true, yet from my experience I've only seen small help and temporary, while I was present, and only some insanity. The next day, it's as if there were no help for any amount of time. There is much I don't understand there, with no handles to grab on to.

Once the prophets understand One they are gone. Then what they wrote was written before they knew completely. Are the prophets still with us in the One, or are they gone completely? After Elijah killed the prophets of Baal then ran all the way to the mountain, he saw sights outside the cave and then at the entrance. That means he was already serving as a prophet of YHWH before he knew YHWH completely.

Because Elijah came to know YHWH how does that benefit us? If we can imagine a god better than YHWH as explained in Torah then why would we even want anything to do with YHWH as told in Torah? We already think of ourselves as better. Then we are still accusing. I don't think you can shorten the time of our accusing. But maybe you can.





[edit on 17-2-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
I read The Gospel of Truth that you have as signature, and I liked that. I've already forgotten the details; must read it again with highlighter I think.

reply to post by pasttheclouds


Hello pasttheclouds!

So this is what stir's in my mind tonight...after talking with you.

Can the cause and effect be one. Then, I have to ask....is there a boundary to what oneness is.

Can the cause be God, and the effect of the offering of the Holy Spirit of God for life in the flesh, also be God? The effect being an experience of separation, which then causes more braking of the vessels of what is perfect, can that still be Holy and perfect in totality without delusion? I have to say no....once perfect because distorted, we see a cause and effect, the effect being not perfect. What is Holy must remain that, and for a man to understand what is Holy, thy will have to understand first, was is not perfect.

I see what you see....to a degree. I understand that you telling me something is another self of me telling me something. I understand that as a species, we are a Unit...but still...we are not perfect, for we are not the cause, we are the effect. This defiantly needs refined though...you made me think alot...this was one of the most thought provoking evening Ive had here on ATS in a while.

When man acts in ego for greed, pride, and hate....I cant understand this is God leading them in these ways. When man does not see what can be perfect, man acts in Earthly ways...causing sorrow and creating unholy things. Its not bad...for this is how we learn.

I do not await God on the clouds, I do not await heaven to merge with Earth, and Im considering that the Universe could be infinite as well, without beginning or end. I know, sounds crazy....but energy seems without beginning or end....and energy is everywhere in everything....*sigh*

My experience with my personal time, God was not the source of asking man to provide sacrifices. This was a practice of man long before the Bible. Are you saying that all books, every single religion is truth? From your perspective, they all would be. I see two truths in them all....things of Earth and things of Spirit. Mabey I shouldnt separate them, mabey that shows deep down I mabey dont believe in oneness in the same way you see it.

This life on Earth is only the beginning, even if I incarnate here for thousands of more years....this experience of individualism and separation is temp. and there is still much to learn and understand after a sphere like Earth. I believe there comes a point where the path that is not will be so showered with love and forgiveness....that it/they will have to abandoned the path that is not for the path that is. This moment for those that will have to experience this understanding in a climax moment will be harsh, for they will have to see they are not what they thought they were. This happens long past Earth...long past the experience of flesh....and still from there...many more levels of existence.

I experience God, the Holy Spirit as being perfect. I feel I have been shown how man has tainted the image of what God is. Its not a fault....but something that had to be, so then the image of God can be truly understood and known. Is dark and light the same thing? Without one, you cant know the other...this is true...which is the reason for this existence....to show us the difference.

I appreciate your sharing of your understandings....but also, not sharing too much, for like you said, I must carry my cross.

My best to you always...feel free to add more to any of this....

LV