Former Chinese official sees 'dark clouds'

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
We had MAD policy back then. Thus the proxy wars. Vietnam, Afganistan and Korea to name three. But it was a different world then and China a different foe than the USSR was. More cunning I'd say. Hell the propaganda war has already started. Hell it's all over this board, and sadly we are losing.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Yes, MAD and the proxy wars. Perhaps, a similar policy will ensue between China and US, if indeed, a war footing is in store? Hopefully, things die down a bit, before that. However, at the rate things are going it would appear that both sides are gearing for confrontation. It all has to do with the Iranian Nuke issue and something both sides see as critical to their foreign policy goals. Well, if another Cold War is in the cards, the Defense Industry will be like kids at a candy store.

I think china is caving in, phew.

UPDATE 1-Taiwan says to buy miltary helicopters from Europe

"What is equally odd about the contract award is China has remained silent on the issue after it threatened to sanction U.S. companies selling arms to Taiwan and occurs at the same time European leaders have been pushing for a lifting of arms exports to China," Defense News said.

If they are quiet, it means they're surrendering.

U.S. officials hopeful China will make concessions on currency

"I think it's actually quite likely [China] will move. I think they recognize it's important to them, in their interest as well," Geithner told the Senate Budget Committee.

I believe they've made a deal, and china agrees, or forced to agree.

Reply to post by Jakes51

I strongly doubt it. We were strong at the start of the last cold war. We're not anymore, the last one weakened us. China knows this and eventually we WILL get desperate. If you want to know their playbook, look at their history and read Sun Tzu's Art of War and put it into the context of now. They are waiting for the opportune time to strike.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
I think China is getting worried about the possibility of the US defaulting on the debt that they owe them. I know many will call me an idiot and many other words but you have to be realistic and know that the US dollar will probably get dealt a heavy blow towards the end of this year. Companies in the US and around the world are keeping their accountants chained to their desks "Cooking the Books" to make their numbers look less terrible than they really are. I'm sure the Chinese know this and are letting the children know that if they want their allowance then they should do as their told.

I think it's as simple as that. Some in the Chinese government are probably saying "we own their ass why should we just sit back and take this" or something like that. If you're smart convert a bit of your paycheck each month to EURO, YUAN, YEN. The US dollar will take a beating this year mark my words, there isn't any more money to do another TARP in the US and nobody is going to buy Treasuries from a near dead country. It would be more satisfying to just burn it than watch it wither away.

I think China made an error in aquiring so much US debt as since the Reagan years it's just gotten worse and worse. Seems Conservatives aren't very good at fiscal responsibility like they claim to be. China grabbed too much in a move I think they thought would give them leverage over the US but they didn't plan on how to get out and make some money if the US economy tanked. Now they can't pull the plug or it will further destroy their investement.

I personally don't think they care about the money. They can destroy the US for about $3 Trillion or less without firing a shot. I think in the long run that they view this as far cheaper than a war and they get to come out on top without all the death and destruction. Although the wildcard scenario in this is that out of desperation the US could become very unpredictable and could start a war with them regardless.

I think China is just muscleing(word?) into the world stage and playing hard ball. The difference is now they are in a position to back it up. Interesting times lie ahead.

Sir I think you have hit the nail on the head! I couldn't have put it better than that.

Indeed as you say, the "wild card" is an America losing its reigns as a dominating world super power. Will they just let themselves crumble away?

No I don;t believe they will. In fact, I believe that they have shown through 9/11 that they will do WHAT EVER it takes to keep themselves above water.
Like I said, I think they orchestrated 9/11 to invade the middle-east as they know they are in trouble.

Unpayable debt, peak oil, and a general nastiness and corruption in every sense of the word.

TPTB of the US won't allow their empire to crumble away and be reduced to a third world nation.. I think when things start really getting desperate we will have another 9/11 occur and SHTF scenario.

Reply to post by Jazzyguy

Or they are quietly preparing fpr a fight as they see we aren't backing down.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

The Chinese have more soldiers than we have people. 1.3 Billion vs. 300 million. They have a BILLION more people than we have.

What I fear happening is TPTB are for some reason deliberately running us into the ground financially so that when the total economic collapse of the US happens, the Chinese can invade, kill most of us off, and take over our country.

We have a $12.3 trillion national debt that you can pretty much forget about ever being paid off. The sum is just too large and the idiots in charge are recklessly adding more and more and more to it each and every day. We are on an unsustainable path. You don't get out of debt by running up your credit cards. You get out of debt first and foremost by STOPPING SPENDING. Our leaders seem to think we have a money tree that produces endless fruit. We owe China $1.3 trillion. They own us. They're going to get their money one way or another.

Do you know how much $12.3 trillion looks like? Imagine a warehouse that is bigger than a football field and about 70-80 feet tall. Fill every square inch of that warehouse with $100 bills and that's what $12.3 trillion would look like. Now, imagine the $1.3 trillion we owe China. Same warehouse full of $100 bills stacked up about six feet high.

See this link for the illustration of what a trillion dollars looks like:

www.pagetutor.com...

And here for what the national debt looks like:

www.pagetutor.com...

reply to post by coastalite


No you are wrong, you are thinking like an American.

"Invade and kill all the people".
That is what Americans do, invade and kill all the people.

Americans only ever think about military conquest, power, weaponry, and the application of threats and deadly force.

The Chinese are much smarter and more subtle than that.
Soon they will own you and your country totally.
You will be living in poverty with Chinese landlords, and Chinese Employers.

They don't want to kill you, or rape your sister.
They want you to WORK for them as debt slaves, and make them even more wealthy.

The gist of what I got from Obama's SOTU speech was major cutting of the budgets coming up in the future. I know there was a lot of little things thrown in there but pulling out of Iraq will be interesting. It will cost a fortune to remove all that hardware from Iraq. I'm guessing that a lot will be sold as is to the Iraqi Armed Forces and the US will use that money to rebuild the military that's really hurting. Next he'll rain in military spending next years SOTU speech.

I think you're going to see a contraction of the US empire around the world. Obama needs a big victory and I think it will be bringing back the troops from South Korea. It has 2 unique advantages. Not only will it save money by not having troops there but at the same time it will create some panic buying of arms by South Korea and neighbouring countries as NK is still an unknown. I think strategically it's a good move on the US's part and it will appease the new masters. It's time anyways, hostilities ended 50 years ago.

The US needs to slash their budget in a big way and they need to start doing it fast. I don't think there was anything to be done about this year as things were already in the pipe that needed to be paid for but I think next years budget will be interesting. Of course all of the above depends on the performance of the dollar this year and I don't think it's going to be good. I think the rise in the US stock market last year was the banks using TARP money and easy lending by the FED to make some quick cash to cover some of their exposure to what's lying ahead.

The commercial real estate crash will be a lot worse than the subprime crash and it will destroy most banks and will crash the US economy again and this one has some potential to be devastating. Global investors I believe are just riding the ship before it's going to sink and then at the last minute will jump into the life rafts.

ie: Once global investors see the bottom opening up they will flee the US economy and watch it crash covering their bets in other countries. The big problem with the global derivatives market is that commercial real estate based packages were considered like gold so massive amounts of these derivatives were sold.

I think these big profits banks showed and made a big deal about paying them back is that they are preparing for what lies ahead.

By the way the US taxpayer has guaranteed a lot of these derivatives. The Taxpayer will be on the hook for Trillions if the banks fail and who's going to lend the US the money for that! Nobody! Crumble Crumble Crumble

[edit on 5-2-2010 by DEEZNUTZ]

I remember reading long ago (10 yrs +) that China had constructed vast underground complexes, and from way back in my youth, the only prophetic words that ever got stuck in my brain was the phrase "beware the Yellow Race". Not sure where that was written, but I always thought it to be from the bible.

Now we all know China has had a huge appetite for oil, but what if not all of that oil has been consumed domestically and China has been storing some of it away for a rainy day? It is easy to just assume that they use it all up in manufacturing and energy production, but who is really keeping tabs?

Economically, it makes good sense to use up everyone else’s resources before using up your own - provided you can afford to buy everyone else’s in the first place. I think we have seen that China has had no problem securing deals for foreign oil, and I also believe a clever part of that is the way in which China has purchased large chunks of US debt and used the interest payments on the debt to buy oil. They still have the capital investment, but have gained all that oil along the way.

Now if by some chance, China has now accumulated vast oil reserves, and has the ability to survive underground for extended periods, I would not personally place any credence whatsoever in the 'they need us' rhetoric that I have read so often here on ATS.

In fact, if I were to rely purely on my own instincts, I would say China has possibly been pursuing a very long-term plan, which might very soon be approaching maturity.

Just what that plan is I would not dare to speculate, but I for one would not be too complacent when it comes to not only China's capabilities, but her intentions to boot.

What people forget is that the Chinese people are going to weather a storm much better than the American people. Most of China grows their own food. Considering their size the large cities are only a fraction of the total population. You pulled the plug on everything in Western worlds and there would be chaos. No one grows their own food. Me included.

reply to post by loveguy


China and Russia have been working very closely over the past 3 years, with joint millitary exercises involving India, the Russians have even shared naval technology with China in exchange for reduced price renovations to the black fleet.

Politically, Russia and China both follow the same line on Iran, North Korea and US military issues in countries close to or bordering them, like Taiwan arms sales, and the missiles that US put in Poland.

So is America building vaults like the ones in Fallout? I've been practicing in case I end up in 108, ahem, "Gary?".

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
reply to post by Nomad451

 

Well, not wishing for any war to happen, but I guess a middle eastern only war sure seems a lot better than a us and china conflict.

Do you think the US is trying to create a conflict to get out of debt at the present time?

verrrrry interesting angle...

it sure would be convenient...

The US's greatest resources right now is weapons. Not oil, not manufacturing, not work ethic, just weapons. The best way for the US to survive a peak oil future is by exchanging weapons for resources and hoping those weapons are used to destroy nations that compete for such resources.

Think about it.... give weapons to Taiwan and they are going to be used against china, or at least to offset their power balance.

It's a pretty brilliant plan.

-rrr

[edit on 5-2-2010 by rickyrrr]

US deficit 2009 estimated to be 12000 billion dollars*, of which the US owes china about 780 billion dollars, thats 6.5%.

China GDP 2008 was 4500 billion dollars approx (nominal). which makes their holdings of US debt papers about 18% of their gross domestic product, that is a lot of money and risk.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy

Originally posted by Nomad451
Well, I have to honestly admit I see a lot of "dark clouds" but not just on the US-China front, but everywhere.

When a chinese says a lot of dark clouds, it's euphemism, it means a storm is brewing.
The world can handle an iran israel war, but can't the world handle a china and us conflict (not necessarily a military one). When it comes to china, if you push too far, they'll go all the way and won't stop. It's just that different.

I believe 2010 is shaping up to be the year it all happens

Don't! Just don't.

When I first read it, I was thinking that maybe the Chinese were expecting a weather storm or something, or that maybe they had developed some kind of weather control machine.

Are we sure this is not what this means? Like it is a coded message or something?

Great another amazing prophetic piece of wisdom from a worthless politician.


It doesn't take a former politician to see this, in fact we should have not bought a damn thing from China, but our politicians, and large corporations sold the US, down the river.

Originally posted by Nomad451

Former Chinese official sees 'dark clouds'

www.cnn.com

Declaring "I see a lot of dark clouds on the horizon," a former top official in the Chinese Foreign Ministry said the U.S.-China relationship is at a critical moment and any further deterioration will not be good for world peace.

Victor Gao, a director of the China National Association of International Studies, told CNN's Christiane Amanpour that China views the recent U.S. arms sale to Taiwan "as a major kind of a step to upset China's national interest."

(visit the link for the full news article)

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
1.I think China is getting worried about the possibility of the US defaulting on the debt that they owe them. I know many will call me an idiot and many other words but you have to be realistic and know that the US dollar will probably get dealt a heavy blow towards the end of this year. Companies in the US and around the world are keeping their accountants chained to their desks "Cooking the Books" to make their numbers look less terrible than they really are. I'm sure the Chinese know this and are letting the children know that if they want their allowance then they should do as their told.

2.I think it's as simple as that. Some in the Chinese government are probably saying "we own their ass why should we just sit back and take this" or something like that. If you're smart convert a bit of your paycheck each month to EURO, YUAN, YEN. The US dollar will take a beating this year mark my words, there isn't any more money to do another TARP in the US and nobody is going to buy Treasuries from a near dead country. It would be more satisfying to just burn it than watch it wither away.

3.I think China made an error in aquiring so much US debt as since the Reagan years it's just gotten worse and worse. Seems Conservatives aren't very good at fiscal responsibility like they claim to be. China grabbed too much in a move I think they thought would give them leverage over the US but they didn't plan on how to get out and make some money if the US economy tanked. Now they can't pull the plug or it will further destroy their investement.

4.I personally don't think they care about the money. They can destroy the US for about $3 Trillion or less without firing a shot. I think in the long run that they view this as far cheaper than a war and they get to come out on top without all the death and destruction. Although the wildcard scenario in this is that out of desperation the US could become very unpredictable and could start a war with them regardless.

1.I believe also that China also wanted to "buy out" america, they knew that america wouldn't be able to pay them back and then they would get to buy more of america.

2.I doubt that the NWO doesn't have a plan in place. Its unlikely that they are just going to sit back and watch everything that they worked for just go down the drain.

3.It isn't just conservatives fault so you can erase those politic battle lines. There have been Democrats in office just like conservatives.

4.I wouldn't rule out china perparing to go to war.

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
What people forget is that the Chinese people are going to weather a storm much better than the American people. Most of China grows their own food. Considering their size the large cities are only a fraction of the total population. You pulled the plug on everything in Western worlds and there would be chaos. No one grows their own food. Me included.

and i believe you are giving them to much credit.

Second Line

reply to post by Nomad451


Maybe he's talking about the dark pollution clouds caused by chinas industry?

screencrave.com...


Just remember, They will come to help us.