Former Chinese official sees 'dark clouds'

Former Chinese official sees 'dark clouds'

www.cnn.com

Declaring "I see a lot of dark clouds on the horizon," a former top official in the Chinese Foreign Ministry said the U.S.-China relationship is at a critical moment and any further deterioration will not be good for world peace.

Victor Gao, a director of the China National Association of International Studies, told CNN's Christiane Amanpour that China views the recent U.S. arms sale to Taiwan "as a major kind of a step to upset China's national interest."

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Well, I have to honestly admit I see a lot of "dark clouds" but not just on the US-China front, but everywhere.

I know war is hyped up a lot on ATS, but can we honestly deny any longer that our world is traveling down a VERY dangerous path at the moment?

We have this issue with the Chinese and relations are deteriorating pretty quickly..

We have the Iranian nuclear issue very probably and seemingly coming to a head after so long, with a final push for sanctions and the build up of arms in the gulf to "defend" against Iranian missile attacks?

C'mon, Iran haven't made a first strike EVER as far as I know... Why is the US certain enough that Iran will lash out and attack gulf countries and Israel? Could it be perhaps the Obama admin KNOWS a first strike on Iran is coming soon, and thats where the Iranian attack will come from? I think so.

Israel and Hezbollah, Iran and Syria... News stories coming out now of very high tensions along the Israel border and the high probability of a war breaking out very soon.

I believe 2010 is shaping up to be the year it all happens

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by Nomad451

Hello,
As I was reading this a thought occured to me...There's been some talk about China having Russia as an ally, or something to that effect. I beg to differ though. Russia and the US has a history together, come a long way in terms of comradery. China may very well be "bigger than her britches." I think she has more to lose than just a war, and/or face. My compass just informed me I'm heading off topic all together.

It's just geopolitical rhetoric, nothing will come of it. This has been happening ever since China was 'lost' to the communists in '49. That did lead to Korea though...

When the U.S sells weaponry to Taiwan and China doesn't say anything, that's when we should be worried.

reply to post by serbsta


I do agree that it is talk. However, I think the talk exists because there is a genuine problem building up here and people know it and see it. Would anything come from it? I have no idea..

But lets just say US-China relations do keep declining for this reason and that, what are the implications of this? I am just putting this out there because I do agree on the dark clouds on the horizon, particularly in the middle-east.

Middle-East is about to go up in flames IMHO

Originally posted by Nomad451
Well, I have to honestly admit I see a lot of "dark clouds" but not just on the US-China front, but everywhere.

When a chinese says a lot of dark clouds, it's euphemism, it means a storm is brewing.
The world can handle an iran israel war, but can't the world handle a china and us conflict (not necessarily a military one). When it comes to china, if you push too far, they'll go all the way and won't stop. It's just that different.

I believe 2010 is shaping up to be the year it all happens

Don't! Just don't.

On the brihht maybe this war will get it out of our collective systems so to speak. It is going to carry a heavy cost in blood and tears. Reminds me of a Babylon 5 quote when someone asked a member of a far older race how a conflict brewing between two races was going to end and he answered "In fire.".


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reply to post by Jazzyguy


I take it by "Don't! Just don't" ATS has heard this every year? Well, I can imagine that. Perhaps for the sake of bleeding eyes and ears I shouldn't say that I think 2010 might be the year for it to happen. For people's sanity I will retract that, although I have always followed news and things going on in the middle-east and I have never really believed any massive war was "Imminent"..

The 2006 Israel Hezbollah war blew over without WW3 occurring just as I knew it would. I remember saying to myself this will come to a cease fire, but will probably flair up again in a few years.

During 08 and 09 I never believed we could see a major middle-east war either, the stage just wasn't set enough...

I am saying now, that things are certainly seeming to be picking up along with tensions. PERHAPS 2010 is the year this long time coming Middle-East war will erupt, or maybe it won't. I'm just observing what I thought a few years ago, that about now is when sh#t will probably start to heat up again


[edit on 4-2-2010 by Nomad451]

Lets hope some Illuminati get assassinated soon so we can move on.

Or else Iran discloses free energy and aliens on the 11th.

Or both.

Or something else.

Just not another conflict man c'mon I think its time to move on.

reply to post by Nomad451


Well, not wishing for any war to happen, but I guess a middle eastern only war sure seems a lot better than a us and china conflict.

Do you think the US is trying to create a conflict to get out of debt at the present time?

I think war with China is inevitable. They desire it. They know it's coming. They want to topple us in the manner of bullies that this world is run by, so they can be the new biggest kids on the block. But hopefully after this we learn.....

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past." -G'Kar Babylon 5

 

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This may shape up as being a year of war. No one moves weapons to an area, if a threat is not imminent. Apparently, this recent build-up in the Gulf is for something other than the usual geopolitical bickering? Now, a former Chinese official and someone versed in Sino relations and inner workings of the government sees dark clouds on the horizon as well. Why would he say those things, if potential confrontation is not even being consider by the Chinese government?

It looks like the Chinese are concerning themselves over the latest militaristic moves by the Obama Administration. Plus, I find it hard to believe that the Chinese would sit back and allow their leading oil supply to be cut-off if the latest sanctions and military footing escalates to war. Now, if we see an increase in US naval activity within the Taiwan strait and bases around the region put on high-alert, then the excrement is going to hit the fan. So, maybe the arm-chair generals on ATS have got this one right for a change?

reply to post by Jazzyguy


Well its hard to say Jazzyguy. It is my opinion that the US has wanted to invade and control the Middle-East from the get-go, so I think they would have known prior to invading in 2003 that it would put a serious dint in the countries debt.

I think they knew it was going to get them into a debt crisis, but hoping it would eventually pull them out of it as well... Can you imagine controlling the earth's remaining oil fields?

Yes, that is why I believe the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, eventually leading to a conflict to take out Iran and control the Gulf because they know we have well and truly hit peak oil as a globe, and most definitely the US as a country. I think the US officially hit peak oil in 1970? Is that correct?

A military war between the US and China would be extremely dangerous and scary, two major super powers armed to the teeth with nukes? No thanks.

But I don't think I can safely say a major all out Middle-East war would be any better. Imagine, the entire middle-east region engulfed in war, Oil would be cut short if not cease production all together.

Bye bye world economy and Hello dark ages! So I think between a US-China war and a middle-east all out war, were really just trading nuclear fallout and unprecedented environmental damage with a global economy collapsing and our western ways of life (electricity, jobs, food production, transportation, everything you can possibly think of) ceasing to exist.

We'll be living in caves hunting for our food again should all Oil production and flow from the middle-east get disrupted.

I'm only speculating though. Might not be as bad all that but who really knows until it happens. And it will happen.



[edit on 5-2-2010 by Nomad451]

From Red Dawn:

Darryl Bates: What started it?
Col. Andy Tanner: I don't know. Two toughest kids on the block, I guess. Sooner or later, they're gonna fight. Col. Andy Tanner: Or maybe somebody just forget what it was like.

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Originally posted by Jakes51
This may shape up as being a year of war. No one moves weapons to an area, if a threat is not imminent. Apparently, this recent build-up in the Gulf is for something other than the usual geopolitical bickering? Now, a former Chinese official and someone versed in Sino relations and inner workings of the government sees dark clouds on the horizon as well. Why would he say those things, if potential confrontation is not even being consider by the Chinese government?

It looks like the Chinese are concerning themselves over the latest militaristic moves by the Obama Administration. Plus, I find it hard to believe that the Chinese would sit back and allow their leading oil supply to be cut-off if the latest sanctions and military footing escalates to war. Now, if we see an increase in US naval activity within the Taiwan strait and bases around the region put on high-alert, then the excrement is going to hit the fan. So, maybe the arm-chair generals on ATS have got this one right for a change?

Yeah I agree. It could be argued that the US military build up in the Gulf and the sales of defensive missiles to Gulf countries is just as Iran called it "a puppet show".. Obama is definitely doing it to look tough in the face of Iran and to make it look like he is making good on his promise of "consequences".

I also think that it is being done because as far as TPTB are concerned, the Iranian nuclear debate is OVER. It has come to a head. No more pussy footing about, no more talk and little action for them, and I think they are preparing for any outcome, particularly war. For them, either way the issue can't go on any longer.

So indeed the US is preparing for a possible outcome of war should the sanctions fail, which they probably will...

Tensions with China aren't going to help China get on board of the sanction band-wagon is it? No. China will have Iran's backing.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

From Red Dawn:

Darryl Bates: What started it?
Col. Andy Tanner: I don't know. Two toughest kids on the block, I guess. Sooner or later, they're gonna fight. Col. Andy Tanner: Or maybe somebody just forget what it was like.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Yep! That pretty much sums it up on how these things get started. I am just amazed that the US and the Soviet Union never got into a direct confrontation during the Cold War. Thank goodness, both side knew exactly what that entailed if it did happen. Hopefully, China and US can tone it down a bit, but right now relations are at a fever pitch.

Especially, with the US building a war machine around its major petroleum supplier, Iran. The Chinese know, that if oil exports are halted or interrupted, they are going to have to deal with a sea of angry people. So, I think this stuff isn't the usual political bickering as I have said in an earlier post, but a serious threat seen by the Chinese government.

We had MAD policy back then. Thus the proxy wars. Vietnam, Afganistan and Korea to name three. But it was a different world then and China a different foe than the USSR was. More cunning I'd say. Hell the propaganda war has already started. Hell it's all over this board, and sadly we are losing.


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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
We had MAD policy back then. Thus the proxy wars. Vietnam, Afganistan and Korea to name three. But it was a different world then and China a different foe than the USSR was. More cunning I'd say. Hell the propaganda war has already started. Hell it's all over this board, and sadly we are losing.

 

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Not over by a long shot. There is still fight.
Focus, my friend.

I think China is getting worried about the possibility of the US defaulting on the debt that they owe them. I know many will call me an idiot and many other words but you have to be realistic and know that the US dollar will probably get dealt a heavy blow towards the end of this year. Companies in the US and around the world are keeping their accountants chained to their desks "Cooking the Books" to make their numbers look less terrible than they really are. I'm sure the Chinese know this and are letting the children know that if they want their allowance then they should do as their told.

I think it's as simple as that. Some in the Chinese government are probably saying "we own their ass why should we just sit back and take this" or something like that. If you're smart convert a bit of your paycheck each month to EURO, YUAN, YEN. The US dollar will take a beating this year mark my words, there isn't any more money to do another TARP in the US and nobody is going to buy Treasuries from a near dead country. It would be more satisfying to just burn it than watch it wither away.

I think China made an error in aquiring so much US debt as since the Reagan years it's just gotten worse and worse. Seems Conservatives aren't very good at fiscal responsibility like they claim to be. China grabbed too much in a move I think they thought would give them leverage over the US but they didn't plan on how to get out and make some money if the US economy tanked. Now they can't pull the plug or it will further destroy their investement.

I personally don't think they care about the money. They can destroy the US for about $3 Trillion or less without firing a shot. I think in the long run that they view this as far cheaper than a war and they get to come out on top without all the death and destruction. Although the wildcard scenario in this is that out of desperation the US could become very unpredictable and could start a war with them regardless.

I think China is just muscleing(word?) into the world stage and playing hard ball. The difference is now they are in a position to back it up. Interesting times lie ahead.

Reply to post by SLAYER69

Oh I never give up don't worry. But I also don't believe deluding myself.


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