do Birthers suffer from advanced delusionary schizophrenia with involuntary narcissistic rage?

Originally posted by Mr_Awesome
reply to post by Dramey

 

... and i think until that ever happened there is nothing other then those documents needed to defend the situation

You have stated throughout that you just want the proof you were asking for and indeed you are now pretty satisfied that you got it.

But don't you realise that others in the thread will not take this short form certificate as proof and do infact require the long form certificate as proof (probably due to the goverments willingness to contsantly lie and cheat the people)?

Dont you think Obama should just provide this long form proof to satisify the people asking for it rather than take active measures to ensure it doesn't get released. Is that not suspicious to you at all?

Its the same plight that you have just experienced in this thread. Obama only has to provide the required long form proof as asked for by the people.

I am suprised that you (being the question asker that you are) were so worried about the black mark over the numbers yet you dont seem to mind the fact that Obama refuses to release the full long form document to the people and end the debate.

i agree and i have stated all along a lot of this is obamas own fault for not being more cooperative, for him to be more cooperative would not stretch his resources thin, nor take up time needed for other areas as a simple 5 minute phone call from him would alleviate the situation

this will come back to hurt him in the next election as there will be doubts, in many minds

transparency is something a politician should embrace as it leaves nothing up to speculation


now the situation regarding the so called "short form"

in the USA, at the dmv, or any other place requiring id, the form we have seen, would be acceptable

the only way it would be questioned, is if it has the support of someone with knowledge and a standing reputation regarding forgery, fake documents, and other similarly related things

if hawaii no longer uses "long form" well you cant create something out of thin air and from what i have heard hawaii does not use long form, i believe there should be a change made to the way hawaii does things to alleviate potential future problems


if someone credible, can bring up issues that have arisen surrounding the document in question, then the debate can move forward again, at that point, it should not be debated on line, but in the court of law, where access to all and any information would be available

if this is a situation someone wishes to pursue, debating online will get no one anywhere

the best way to go about pursuing the situation is to do what the group did who released the pictures and information regarding the document in question

meaning actually go and see the document 1st hand, and bring along an expert in the field of forgery or some type of fake documents


if they find in any way that the document in question is indeed questionable, they should file a court case with the expert as a witness and pursue the situation to gain any further information needed to solve the problem


with all of that said, it should not be necessary, obama should have been and should be more transparent, but by not doing so, he is simply harming himself, and that will show come election time


in my mind, without further evidence, according to the document in question, obama is a natural citizen, however that does not mean i am not still suspicious of his actions


this wasnt the only topic that has left me questioning his motives and policies and that is something we should keep in mind, however in my opinion, not something we should dwell on without further evidence

reply to post by whatukno


I dont think it needs to be about technicalities in the constitution. It's not necessary. Obama should just release the long form birth certificate to put the issue at rest as it's the common sense approach. The fact that he will not do this and chooses to actually hires lawers to prevent it from being released understandably raises suspicion.

There may be plenty of people that would still not believe it even with the long form proof but it is not relevant because the fact remains that most of the 'birthers' just want to see the long form birth certificate, thats all.

If Obama would just release the long form out of good faith that would be the end of it. His refusal to do so comes after a campaign built heavily on government transparency. If anything you should join the 'birthers' cause not because you care about where Obama was born but just for the simple fact that many of your fellow countrymen have made a simple request of the president. The people need to show that their demands (whatever they may be) will not be ignored by the elite.

Delusional? Perhaps but definitely in denial...and gullible...but I have observed that that is par for the course for such types.

reply to post by Mr_Awesome


It's not about a technicality? I beg to differ, the Constitution is the highest law in the land. It does not state what form of ID is acceptable. So the COLB is perfectly legal.

One, Hawaii does not issue long form birth certificates. Two he does not need a long form birth certificate for the job, and three birthers wouldn't believe it anyway.

There is no point in this conspiracy, you can be suspicious all you want, it just distracts you from what he is really doing.

Originally posted by Mr_Awesome
Obama should just release the long form birth certificate

and where does he get that from? Hawaii does not issue them....

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Mr_Awesome

 

It's not about a technicality? I beg to differ, the Constitution is the highest law in the land. It does not state what form of ID is acceptable. So the COLB is perfectly legal.

One, Hawaii does not issue long form birth certificates. Two he does not need a long form birth certificate for the job, and three birthers wouldn't believe it anyway.

There is no point in this conspiracy, you can be suspicious all you want, it just distracts you from what he is really doing.

Your not understanding. I didn't say it was not about a technicality, I said that I don't think it needs to be about technicalities. See the difference? My point was to say that it doesn't need to be an issue for the courts. If Obama could just comply with a simple request the issue would be over.

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by Mr_Awesome
Obama should just release the long form birth certificate

and where does he get that from? Hawaii does not issue them....

Right you are but it symantics, what I mean is the original birth certificate. The one that is being asked for. You know the one that they have on file that Obama will not allow to be released this is what I am talking about.

If this many people have questions about it then the president should do the right thing and comply with the wishes of the public.

Originally posted by Mr_Awesome
If this many people have questions about it then the president should do the right thing and comply with the wishes of the public.

once again and where does he get that from? Hawaii does not issue them....

If people will not believe the current valid certificate, why will they believe another one? Anyway, as has been shown this is not about a piece of paper at all....

what did you just say about Obama's Grandmother?

how rude...

Originally posted by dereks

once again and where does he get that from? Hawaii does not issue them.... ...

Is this because of some State Law or merely an administrative policy or standard procedure?

Policy can be changed at the drop of a hat when necessary. Unless there is some binding law forbidding the issuance of the Long Form Birth Certificate, which would give the name of the Dr. and the hospital, then I truly see no reason to adhere to this asinine policy.

My Birth Certificate, which I have a copy of, has my footprints and what appears to be my thumb prints. The only reason I can see for refusing to release Obama's Long Form, and this is a real stretch, is concern over someone having access to his fingerprint. But that is a real leap in my book.

Nevermind. I found the Hawaii State law that is relevant to this issue.
www.capitol.hawaii.gov...


[edit on 2/4/2010 by Sparky63]

reply to post by Mr_Awesome

My point was to say that it doesn't need to be an issue for the courts. If Obama could just comply with a simple request the issue would be over.

No it wouldn't, birthers would not take anything Obama issued as fact, they would rather believe blogs or WND or any other tabloid source rather than what Obama would have to show (evidenced by what he did show) on the matter.



The President has other way more important things to do than to constantly react to a made up internet rumor. Should he have to stop what he is doing to prove to everyone that he is not the Anti Christ? I mean it's your right to question. Far be it from me to stop you from questions you have. I try and provide in my own limited way the facts that have been presented from sources that I feel are trustworthy. You don't like it, or don't believe it? Well, that's not really my problem is it?

You want the long form birth certificate, the form that Hawaii does not actually give to anyone? How do you suppose he does that? Executive order overriding the sovereignty of the state of Hawaii, to satisfy what at last count was less than .001% of the nation?

The notion that Obama somehow defeated Hillary Clinton and John McCain with full knowledge that he wasn't eligible for office is laughable enough alone. What it shows is the hard core believers in this theory, the ones that refuse to acknowledge any real facts about this issue, certainly seem to have some sort of mental disorder. Even the ones that acknowledge that the short form is in fact valid but wait for the long form knowing that Hawaii does not release the long form, have some sort of problem upstairs.

Here is what is funny, do you know when someone is lying? It's when their story changes. This administration hasn't changed it's story on this once, the birthers on the other hand, have constantly changed their story. Makes you wonder who the ones that are lying are.

Here is the Hawaii Law regarding Birth Certificates:

§338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:

(1) The registrant;

(2) The spouse of the registrant;

(3) A parent of the registrant;

(4) A descendant of the registrant;

(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;

(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;

(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;

(8) A personal representative of the registrant’s estate;

(9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;

(10) Adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and who need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents;

(11) A person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;

(12) A person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and

(13) A person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.

(c) The department may permit the use [of] the data contained in public health statistical records for research purposes only, but no identifying use thereof shall be made.

(d) Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.

(e) The department may permit persons working on genealogy projects access to microfilm or other copies of vital records of events that occurred more than seventy-five years prior to the current year.

(f) Subject to this section, the department may direct its local agents to make a return upon filing of birth, death, and fetal death certificates with them, of certain data shown to federal, state, territorial, county, or municipal agencies. Payment by these agencies for these services may be made as the department shall direct.

(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:

(1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy;

(2) A governmental agency or organization who for a legitimate government purpose maintains and needs to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities;

(3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization;

(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or

(5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes. [L 1949, c 327, §22; RL 1955, §57-21; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; am L 1967, c 30, §2; HRS §338-18; am L 1977, c 118, §1; am L 1991, c 190, §1; am L 1997, c 305, §5; am L 2001, c 246, §2]

www.capitol.hawaii.gov...

The President has other way more important things to do than to constantly react to a made up internet rumor. Should he have to stop what he is doing to prove to everyone that he is not the Anti Christ?

He's not doing anything but flapping his gums.

reply to post by GorehoundLarry


im not going to sit here and say that it isnt about race for some people, because once again, i cant (nor feel as though i should)account for other people. its not about the mans race or color for me, so no, you are wrong, if he were pink with yellow polkadots and a big blue racing stripe down his ass, i still wouldnt care.

i cant think of any reason you have to discredit all "birthers" as racists.

you can call me a racist all you want, if thats what you were doing, but insisting on doing so only insinuates you dont have a grasp on the matter at all.

but you really should give that "shutting the hell" up thing a try.

reply to post by whatukno


you cant prove that you are NOT something (aka Obama being the anti-christ), however it is much much easier to prove you ARE something (eligible to be POTUS)

The bottom line is that if Obama wanted to clear this up he could.
But it is really to his advantage to keep the "Birthers" focused on what the mainstream media has already determined to be a non issue.

As long as the "birthers" continue to focus on this issue they will continue to be ridiculed, isolated, and scorned by Democrats and their mainstream media lap dogs. This really couldn't work out better for Obama.
The "birthers" make up only a small part of the Republican Party, but by association all Republican are subject to scorn and Republican candidates will be forced to take a stand declaring Obama's legitimacy as POTUS or else be lumped in with the "Wingnut Birthers".

If I was Obama I wouldn't change a thing.


[edit on 2/4/2010 by Sparky63]

The real issue and the reason the birth certificate issue does not go away is because there was very little exposure of his background. He has yet to release his college transcripts from Occidental or Harvard. As president of Harvard Law review we have seen nothing concerning his writings. We have yet to see how a community activists making $12,000/year in salary suddenly lives in a $1.8 mm house. Who funded his college at Harvard & how did he get in with a reported mediocre performance at Occidental? Did he attend Occidental on a Fulbright Scholarship? He hangs with radical leftists and liberation theolgists like Rev. Wright yet we're supposed to believe none of these people have helped form his philosophy. He has yet to disclose his donors that contibuted $750,000,000 to his campaign nor allowed the audit required by law, please don't test my intelligence that it was $10. donations. At the end of the day he comes from nowhere with, no experience in running anything, defeats the Clinton machine and becomes president and we're supposed to believe it was because he's such a great speaker or has a great vision. In short, who pulls his strings other than the obvious labor unions & Soros?

If there had been any critical exposure of his background and who's puppet he is, I think that his birth origins would become a secondary issue.

reply to post by Sparky63


Again - Have a modicum of respect for John McCain, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton and even Sarah Palin.
Do you birthers think you are smarter than all of them? Do any of you for a moment think all those people just missed this and you caught it?

Abuse of perscription medication certainly will ring in the end of this great nation. America is fast becoming a bunch of brain addled, pill popping, dysfunctional nincompoops and I predict it will only get worse.

Welcome to Zombieland, the reality.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Sparky63

 

Again - Have a modicum of respect for John McCain, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton and even Sarah Palin.
Do you birthers think you are smarter than all of them? Do any of you for a moment think all those people just missed this and you caught it?

Abuse of perscription medication certainly will ring in the end of this great nation. America is fast becoming a bunch of brain addled, pill popping, dysfunctional nincompoops and I predict it will only get worse.

Welcome to Zombieland, the reality.

I am not a Birther. I stated in a previous post that I believe that Obama has a Long form on file in Hawaii, so I don't know where you got that idea from. Is it your belief that anyone that casts a critical eye at Obama or his motives magically becomes a "Birther". That's bizarre.

And yes, I do believe that I am smarter than all the people you listed, honestly, you didn't set the standard very high.

[edit on 2/4/2010 by Sparky63]

Originally posted by billyjack
...Who funded his college at Harvard & how did he get in with a reported mediocre performance at Occidental? Did he attend Occidental on a Fulbright Scholarship?

Regarding the Fulbright Scholarship question, This is what I found on Factcheck.
Take it for what it's worth.

No Fulbright: Contrary to what this e-mail claims, Obama’s scholarship wasn’t a Fulbright. It’s true that many foreign students come to the U.S. under the Fulbright program, sponsored by the United States Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs. But Fulbrights for foreign students are primarily intended for graduate students studying for masters’ degrees or Ph.D. degrees, not for college freshmen and sophomores.

www.factcheck.org...

Granted, that doesn't rule out a Fulbright for US students but I can find no comprehensive list of recipients going back to Obama's college days.

[edit on 2/4/2010 by Sparky63]