do Birthers suffer from advanced delusionary schizophrenia with involuntary narcissistic rage?

With all due respect to 814ck0u7 & Empire and their personal skirmish with each other, I would hope that they could agree to disagree and move on.

To the Op: After considering the 12 pages of comments, do you still feel that it is intellectually honest and appropriate to state that people who question Obama's eligibility suffer from a combination of serious mental illnesses?

I would just like to know if your viewpoint has changed at all.

reply to post by Sparky63


I'm not responding to the guy anymore, I don't care if he types the winning lotto numbers, I'm done. But let me show you something the OP posted that many people overlook. It's simple but speaks volumes:

The people who claim Obama is not a US born citizen.

Sparky, would you say there is a diffrence between questioning something as opposed to making a claim?

Here let me provide examples:

Obama may have been born in Kenya.

Obama was born in Kenya.

Did Obama lie about where he was born?

Obama lied about where he was born.

Could Obama be the antichrist?

Obama is the antichrist.



[edit on 3-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

the premise is/was faulty from the getgo.

i have come to realize that ive been requesting a return to the "topic at hand", mistakenly thinking of Obama's legitimacy as POTUS; nono, the topic of this thread is 'do Birthers suffer from advanced delusionary schizophrenia with involuntary narcissistic rage?'....

i have also come to realize i dont care about that topic anymore.

reply to post by EMPIRE


Yes I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. Statements are different from questions. Most of the birthers are asking questions, not making definitive statements.

The op however, opens with a question. But he then proceeds to clearly state his opinion and presents his evidence to support it.

For example,
Here is very clearly states his view that "birthers are delusionary.

So what makes them "delusionary"? The mounds of evidence that proves wrong that the fixed belief that birthers vehemently subscribe to that says Obama is not a citizen.

And here the OP clearly states his opinion that birthers suffer from schizophrenia :

they certainly fit the disorganized speech and delusions part, and since it must comprise of "sum but not all" characteristics, i'd say this is a open and shut case.

schizophrenia - CHECK

And here the Op clearly states his view that birthers suffer from narcissism:

This one, in my opinion, describes a birther more than any other. ...snip...when confronted with facts, 9 times out of 10, birthers will start with the name calling and juvenile retort.

narcissistic rage - CHECK

So, getting back to you questions, I would certainly agree that questions are indeed different than statements. However, the OP did both. He posed the question and then made clear statements that indicate he believes that the answer to his question is a resounding "YES".

If you feel I am in error, please let me know how. I look forward to your thoughts on this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 2/3/2010 by Sparky63]
I hope the OP responds to let us know if his view has changed at all.
I wonder if any of the questions posed have had any effect on his "loathing" of them.

[edit on 2/3/2010 by Sparky63]

The question about the place of Obama's birth will not be resolved in this thread. The topic of this thread is not intended to address it in detail.

The topic is whether "birthers" suffer from a variety of real mental illnesses.

I can't believe that the OP really believes this is true.
I think this intention of this thread is just an attempt to belittle those who have a different opinion than the OP.

Although I wouldn't go so far as to ascribe this action to a form of mental illness, I do feel that it is not a very nice thing to do.

reply to post by Sparky63

Most of the birthers are asking questions, not making definitive statements.

not true - what so ever.
Most birthers are screaming in the streets at the top of their lungs "OBAMA IS NOT A US CITIZEN"

i mean...the proof of it is there. Are there those who "question" it? Yes.

But what is there to question?

Its like questioning whether or not the sun is black.

We have proof to show that it is not.

To question rather or not it is ....well....is stupid.

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by Dramey

 

actually- if you go to the DMV and give them your drivers license - you dont need to provide anything else.

simple as that.

you dont need a birth certificate at the DMV....please stop making things up

[edit on 3-2-2010 by Snarf]

cant get the drivers license in the 1st place without the birth certificate

you know whats interesting

one moment, the group saying obama is natural born is screaming at the top of their lungs about all the proof there is

tben when something is suggested proof wise that would end the debate

they shout at the top of their lungs that no proof in the world would end the debate


so why are you people who believe the president was born, fighting so hard, if its never going to end, why not shut the hell up and let people ask questions?

sounds kinda retarded and childish to me

Originally posted by Dramey
cant get the drivers license in the 1st place without the birth certificate

Your right. You cant get a drivers license without a birth certificate, both long form and short form. I have a short form birth certificate and I was able to use it as ID to get my licences years ago. I dont know how it works state by state, but I certainly had no problem. I saw my long form birth certificate long long time ago, its two pages long from what I recall. Its rather old and we keep it in the family history vault. It has details beyond just "whos your doctor", details you would much prefer to keep to yourself. I dont know who in their right mind carries their long form birth certificates around as ID especially when its rather old and outdated with private information, I mean seriously.

The certification of live birth is just good as the certificate of live birth, infact before this entire fiasco I didnt see the difference. Both were state issued birth certificates in my eyes. I would not be surprised if the majority of birthers used their short forms as ID, and just mistakened them for the much older originals. You dont have to believe me, but I am pritty much confident you would find alot more short forms being used out their than the older long form birth certificates.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Maxmars
Has it occurred to anyone that this thread is quite a "production"?

I have to confess some disappointment in the tactics and methodology used by some of the posters.

I mean, the opening lance was bad enough... the title is a shameful jab which generalizes an issue many do not find at all "cut and dry." Rather than illuminate the issue, the overarching thrust is a defamation.

Does that strike any of you as callously antagonistic and full of hubris?

Whatever one accepts or doesn't as a basis for their belief or cynicism, it is hardly a logical step to reduce the group to a diseased state of mind, as the title directly implies is the question.

Narcissism indeed.

yes it does seem antagonistic and full of hubris and honestly just overly retarded in my opinion

the whole debate is

but my question now, why has this thread been chosen to have been left up when its simply just fishing for controversy without providing anything of substance

ive seen much less insulting threads be removed much quicker then this piece

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Dramey
cant get the drivers license in the 1st place without the birth certificate

Your right. You cant get a drivers license without a birth certificate, both long form and short form. I have a short form birth certificate and I was able to use it as ID to get my licences years ago. I dont know how it works state by state, but I certainly had no problem. I saw my long form birth certificate long long time ago, its two pages long from what I recall. Its rather old and we keep it in the family history vault. It has details beyond just "whos your doctor", details you would much prefer to keep to yourself. I dont know who in their right mind carries their long form birth certificates around as ID especially when its rather old and outdated with private information, I mean seriously.

The certification of live birth is just good as the certificate of live birth, infact before this entire fiasco I didnt see the difference. Both were state issued birth certificates in my eyes. I would not be surprised if the majority of birthers used their short forms as ID, and just mistakened them for the much older originals. You dont have to believe me, but I am pritty much confident you would find alot more short forms being used out their than the older long form birth certificates.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by Southern Guardian]

so if you are telling me the short form he provided is good enough

then please show me the short form

i agree that the legit short form would be significant

but the only one i have seen
has information blacked out

and at the bottom of the document it clearly states any alterations invalidates the document

so please if anyone can provide an unaltered short form long form blah blah blah

if anyone can do any of that, be my guest

i like many am not saying barky was born elsewhere, im simply asking the question, and still to this point 13 pages later, countless numbers of threads later

no one can show me an unadulterated version of the short form so many preach about

ive asked for the link

all i get is remarks and videos

or here-say from health officials

ive said many times before, lets treat this like we were in court right now

there is one thing that would be requested and it would end all debate

however that this is not provided

that thing is simply either an un altered short form, or "long form" that everyone talks about so much

Birther threads are perfect for a conspiracy forum.

Personally I believe Obama is hiding something, and it's his burden to prove his eligibility and so far he hasn't. I suppose because I have doubts about his place of birth I must be a 'birther'. But there are worse things about Obama to worry about these days. Since I doubt his eligibility, he's not my President.

The description in the OP of advanced delusionary schizophrenia can be applied to any political party you disagree with.

reply to post by Snarf


Most of the people who question Obamas eligibility are not "screaming in the streets at the top of their lungs" as you put it.

My father in law believes Obama was born in Kenya and that he is a Muslim and that Obama wants to destroy America, but he generally keeps his opinions to himself except for when he has had a few Jack & Cokes. Even then he manages to explain his views in a calm manner.

Granted there are some who scream about it, and some might even do so in the streets, but to imply that they all do so is dishonest.

Some Obama supporters scream in the streets at the top of their lungs but that does not mean they all do, or that they have some sort of mental illness.

I am on the fence. I think Obama has something to hide but I'm not sure what it is. I wish he were more forthcoming but I understand why he isn't. It's good politics to let the media do his dirty work and ridicule those who question his legitimacy.

Originally posted by Dramey
so if you are telling me the short form he provided is good enough

then please show me the short form

I will do no such thing even if its blacked out, but I will happily reference on the form of acceptable identification to apply for a drivers licence at the DMV, California:

Birth date verification and legal presence requirements
The issue of identification reliability, integrity, and confidentiality is of prime concern to all citizens. Eligibility for government services, issuance of various licenses, assessment of taxes, the right to vote, etc., are all determined through evaluations based on identification documents. It is critical that identification documents be authenticated and accurate in identifying each individual. The California driver license and ID card have been declared as primary identification documents in this state by the California legislature.

State law requires every applicant for an original California identification (ID) card and driver license to show verification of birth date and proof of legal presence within the United States to help safeguard the accuracy and integrity of departmental documents.

If your current name no longer matches the name on your birth date/legal presence document, see "True Full Name" and "How to Change Your Name" for more information.

Only the original or a certified copy of one of the following documents is acceptable:

•US Birth Certificate
•US Certificate or Report of Birth Abroad
•Federal Proof of Indian Blood Degree
•INS American Indian Card
•Birth Certificate or passport issued from a US Territory
•US Passport
•US Military Identification Cards (Active or reserve duty, dependent, retired member, discharged from service, medical/religious personnel)
•Common Access Card (only if designated as Active military or Active Reserve or Active Selected Reserve)
•Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship
•Northern Mariana Card
•INS US Citizen ID Card
•Permanent Resident Card
•Temporary Resident Identification Card
•Canadian Passport/Birth Certificate
•Non-resident Alien Canadian Border Crossing Card
•Valid foreign passport with a valid Record of Arrival/Departure (form I-94)
•Certification from California Department of Corrections or California Youth Authority
•Employment Authorization Card
•Permanent Resident Re-entry Permit
•Refugee travel document
•"Processed for I-551" stamped in a valid foreign passport
•Valid I-94 stamped "Refugee," "Parole or Parolee," "Asylee," or Section 207, Section 208, Section 209, Section 212d(2), HP or PIP
•Immigration judge’s order granting asylum
•Certified court order or judgment issued from a court of competent jurisdiction.
•Valid I-94 with attached photo stamped "Processed for I-551 temporary evidence of lawful admission for permanent residence"
•Notice of Action (I-797 Approved Petition)
•Mexican Border Crossing Card with valid I-94

www.dmv.ca.gov...

Obama presented a certification of birth online, which was verified by Hawaiian officials. This form of identification, the short form is acceptable in California as is the same for state law in Hawaii. So you dont need to exclusively use your long form to get a drivers licence in every state. Infact, I dont know what state specifically requires a long form. Most folks I know only have their short forms as their original long forms are either gone, unable to retrieve it or their states have gone paperless to digital. Many people keep their old long form birth certificates, but I am yet to see somebody that actually uses it as identification. To me personally as I said, its old, its got too personal details on it and I would not want to run the risk of losing it. The certification of birth has worked just fine for me.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by Southern Guardian]

In my opinion Delusional disorder in conjunction with very low I.Q. is a better profile. The most common symptom of schizophrenia is auditory hallucinations which I have not seen any evidence of in the birthers I have come into contact with. Most of them are just dumber than a box of rocks. Uneducated clods.

Another factor is of course blatant racism. They just cannot stand the fact that a black man is the leader of the free world.

Originally posted by Lilitu
In my opinion Delusional disorder in conjunction with very low I.Q. is a better profile. The most common symptom of schizophrenia is auditory hallucinations which I have not seen any evidence of in the birthers I have come into contact with. Most of them are just dumber than a box of rocks. Uneducated clods.

Another factor is of course blatant racism. They just cannot stand the fact that a black man is the leader of the free world.

Are people that dumb or that short of logical valid arguments that they need to call someone racist if they question the validity of Obama?

Obama walks into a bar and orders a drink. He is required to show ID, it is the law.

Obama walks into the White House and takes the oath of office. He is required to document that he was born in the United States, it is the law.

What about wanting to see his ID to be President is racist? To call it racist is just plain ignorant.

reply to post by 814ck0u7


Wow. Do you seriously think the man was not born on US soil?
I thought your question was redundant. You protest too much and seem to fit the stereotype so Sorry but like shoes, if they fit...
Yes. I've seen the birth certificate.

I don't know you anymore than you know me (fyi no dick) but I have been to a tea party. I have been shouted down by "birther" fanatics who had only a few pathetic mantra's going for them and no independent thought. 'Get a job' they hollered at me. I have a job I hollered back 'get a job" they repeated as if I had not spoken, as if they were programed. This group like the holocaust deniers have absolutely no regard for the truth.
Have you seen Hare Krishna's? There was the same blind allegiance and herd of cattle quality to many of the protesters. Granted there were good people scattered in the tea party who are simply unhappy with government (and who isn't?) but carrying this "birther" movement is a separate lunatic fringe.

Their agenda is to stir up anger and controversy and hopefully get enough buzzz to start up some sort of peoples militia. You lose a civil war and carry a chip on your shoulder. Give it up
Do you honestly think Hillary and Bill over looked the possibility Barack Obama might not have been ELIGIBLE to run for President???
Is it possible we are living in different dimensions of the same planet, cause I don't get where you are coming from at all?

reply to post by Lilitu


troll on mate.

reply to post by YourPopRock

Obama walks into the White House and takes the oath of office. He is required to document that he was born in the United States, it is the law.

What about wanting to see his ID to be President is racist? To call it racist is just plain ignorant.

The problem is, he did show a valid ID, not only to the people that he needed to (the DNC) but to the whole country. It was completely rejected by the people that bought into this pathetic theory.

Have any of you ever seen the birth certificate for any other president? Has anyone ever asked for a copy of any other president to be posted publicly? It's stunning that just this one president somehow needs more scrutiny than previous ones.

The fact that the DNC vetted him, the Congress confirmed him, and the Supreme Court swore him in somehow is not enough for some people. Leads one to the conclusion since this is the only half black president in US history that his race must be the factor in why this lame excuse for a conspiracy lives on.

People who bought into this clap trap never seem to understand that if Obama was in fact born in a foreign country as people claim, Hillary Clinton would have pounced all over that fact, not to mention John McCain. But there comes the weak excuse that those two were in on it.

People scream for the long form birth certificate ignoring the fact that Hawaii no longer issues a long form birth certificate and that the COLB is perfectly valid. They also ignore the fact that Hawaii has verified publicly that they do have the original on file. No state keeps a copy of your birth certificate except the state that you are born in. I can't go to Hawaii and get a copy of my birth certificate from Michigan, I have to go to Michigan and get that.

Even political excuses don't work for this because no other president has ever had his eligibility questioned once in office. EVER, but somehow, for some reason, the first half black president has his eligibility questioned routinely, by a dentist/real estate agent/lawyer.

Besides the mountain of proven erroneous documents that have been fabricated trying to show that Obama was born in Kenya, people somehow for some weird reason think that living in another country as a child invalidates the fact that you were born here in the United States. It doesn't because thankfully the US State Department does not have to recognize the laws of other countries.

If this conspiracy theory had any merit to it at all, Obama would not be POTUS, it just would not happen. The CIA and the FBI would have found out something before the election ever took place. The Congress would not have confirmed him, and the Supreme Court would not have sworn him in.

reply to post by rusethorcain


i cant account for the actions of others. .

i maintain a doubt as to the eligibility of Obama to be POTUS because the questions outweigh the answers a considerable amount in my opinion, based upon my impartial inquisition into the topic once i first learned of its existence.

during my... journey, i am sure that i have read propaganda from both sides of the aisle; i am not so naive as to think that every document scanned, every video watched, every audio bite sampled was legitimate, nonpartisan REAL info.

but most of it was legit #... from both sides.

i dont identify with the group you have described, ruse, even though i maintain that i have no reason to believe the story in the first place.

you see, i cant really be right, and i cant really be wrong because my opinion isnt critical in any form pertaining to a resolution of this issue.

not to mention that im not really making any statements; nay, just forming an opinion based on research.

so shoot me.