Kabbala witchcraft of the rich and powerful???

Does anyone know anything about the Kabbala with regards to Satanic Ritual Abuse ??

I remeber hearing a tape ages ago of a presentation done by a Christian women who has done extensive research on spiritual warfare and curses and stuff. She listed all sorts of stuff that you can find online about this subject, but she also briefly mentioned the Kabbala and said it is either one of the highest forms of witchcraft or is the highest. She said it is Jewish Mystic Witchcraft. Anyway she said that little is known about it, but that it is used by the very rich and powerful to groom people and often their children into positions of power in the world. This women knew ALOT of stuff about satanism but little about this. I think it also involves MPD, where they screw with kids personalities when they are young using extreme trauma, to make them switch alters to unable them to do things then switch back and never remeber what they had done. Now I know MPD is known of ..and I think its been touched on here. Anyone know anything about the kabbala in this context?

All I know about it is that Maddona uses it, it can lead to great enlightenment but also insanity if used wrong.

Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
Does anyone know anything about the Kabbala with regards to Satanic Ritual Abuse ??

This is the first I've heard of Kabbala being linked with abuse. You are correct though, it has become a very "trendy" form of mysticism. Here's a good article exposing most popular Kabbala studies as rubbish and giving insight into its origins and intented purpose: Link

I was able to find a link about ritual abuse and MPD that briefly lists Kabbala as one of the causes: Link

So it seems as if you may be on to something. I'll try digging some more though.

thanks for the links!

The women giving the presentation was coming from a Christian perspective, but stressed that this kabbala stuff was possibly the worst or must shrouded and evil form of witchcraft, and used by wealthy families, passed down to the children in forming powerful people to take up powerful positions in the world Bare in mind that from the Christian perspective to be powerful in the world would be powerful in Satans kingdom.

You can find far more instances of Christian ritual abuse (which can be argued to include satanism, as there can be no satanism without Christianity, though that's another topic) than that of Kabbalistic or other occult groups, so this seems like a deliberately inflammatory thread. Kabbalah is the mystical study of Creation that includes the names and aspects of God, so to imply that satanic power can be achieved from this means that it can also be gained from study of the Christian Bible. To "look into" Kabbalah, which has its origins in Judaism, by reading entirely Christian sites is like studying Christianity via Islamic ones. I suggest entering "kabbalah basics" into the search engine of your choice for a wealth of information, and reading unbiased, "inside" information if you want a true perspective of Kabbalah.

Yes, Kabala is the depths of Satan, that's for certain.

All I know about it is that Maddona uses it, it can lead to great enlightenment but also insanity if used wrong.

Since you mentioned our geneartion's personification of Ishtar, there's something interesting I think you should know about the kiss on the MTV Music Awards. Look at the meaning of the names of all three women involved in the 'Sacred' (unholy) Marriage Ritual.

Madonna Main Entry: Ma�don�na
Pronunciation: m&-'d�-n&
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian, from Old Italian ma donna, literally, my lady
1 archaic : LADY -- used as a form of respectful address
2 obsolete : an Italian lady
3 a : VIRGIN MARY b : an artistic depiction (as a painting or statue) of the Virgin Mary

(From www.merriam-webster.com...)

Britney

berit is Hebrew for covenant (Strong's Concordance reference # 1285).

Spears

The Spear of Destiny, which according to legend is the spear which pierced the side of HaMashiach (Christ).
&
The Spear of Cain (Qayin)/Nimrod/Esau? Check this out:

King James Version 2 Samuel 21:15-17
15 Moreover the Philistines had yet war again with Israel; and David went down, and his servants with him, and fought against the Philistines: and David waxed faint.
16 And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear [qayin] weighed three hundred shekels of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword [the word sword is not in the Hebrew], thought to have slain David.
17 But Abishai the son of Zeruiah succoured him, and smote the Philistine, and killed him. Then the men of David sware unto him, saying, Thou shalt go no more out with us to battle, that thou quench not the light of Israel.

What's interesting about that passage is that it's the only time in the entire Bible that qayin is translated as "spear" (or anything else besides Cain or Kenite). Look it up it up in the Strong's Concordance if you have one, reference #'s 7013, 7014, and 7017.

Okay, so Britney Spears is "Covenant of the Spears"

Christina Aguilera

Christina means "female Christian" or perhaps "daughter of Christ" (just as Dracula is a "son of the Devil" Christ is from Christos which is Greek for anointed.

Aguilera is spanish for "eyrie" (eagle's nest, a very high place).

Main Entry: ey�rie
Pronunciation: 'Ir-E, or same as AERIE
variant of AERIE

Main Entry: ae�rie
Pronunciation: 'ar-E, 'er-, 'ir-, 'A-(&-)rE
Function: noun
Etymology: Medieval Latin aerea, from Old French aire, probably from (assumed) Vulgar Latin agrum origin, nest, lair, from Latin ager field -- more at ACRE
1 : the nest of a bird on a cliff or a mountaintop
2 obsolete : a brood of birds of prey
3 : an elevated often secluded dwelling, structure, or position

(From www.merriam-webster.com...)

So, let's review.

Madonna = mother of God

Britney Spears = Covenant of the Spears

Christina Aguilera = Anointed one of the Eagle's Nest or High Place

Now, I believe the kisses shared between these three women on stage was a 'Sacred' Marrage, an occult ritual.

"The mystical marriage with the queen goddess of the world represents the hero's total mastery of life; for the woman is life, the hero its knower and master. And the testings of the hero, which were preliminary to his ultimate experience and deed, were symbolical of those crises of realization by means of which his consciousness came to be amplified and made capable of enduring the full possession of the mother-destroyer, his inevitable bride. With that he knows that he and the father are one; he is in the father's place."
- Joseph Campbell, The Hero with a Thousand Faces

"For it was the Sumerian religious credo that the ritual marriage between the king of Sumer and its fertility Goddess [Inanna] full of sexual allure, was essential for the fertility of the soul and the fecundity of the womb and that it brought about the prosperity of the land and the well being of its people. The first Sumerian ruler who celebrated this rite was the shepherd-king Dumuzi (the Biblical Tammuz) who reigned in Erech...early in the third millennium BC."
- Samuel Noah Kramer, History Begins at Sumer

"Annually she [Innana] mated with the shepherd god Dumuzi (or Tammuz) who incarnated the creative powers of spring. His autumnal death symbolized the seasonal decline, and their reunion in the spring resurrection the renewal of the earth."
- Jennifer and Roger Woolger, The Goddess Within

From www.mystae.com...

The intent of this blasphemous 'Sacred' Marriage performed during the Satanic MTV Music Awards of 2003 was intended to usher in a New Age of (Occult Luciferian Anti-Christ) Blasphemy.

The Satanists believe they are about to achieve their ultimate victory and will soon initiate the final phase of their master's wicked plan. But they will not escape the wrath of Yahweh. He will punish them for all their evil ways, and avenge all the innocent blood which they have shed upon the earth.

Wake up! Repent! For Yahshua HaMashiach will return at an hour when you do not expect him (Matthew 24:42, 25:13; Mark 13:33-35, Luke 21:36*).

King James Version Matthew 21:42-44
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

(See also Psalms 118:20-23, Mark 12:10-11, Luke 20:17-18, Acts 4:10-12, and 1 Peter 2:6-8)


* By the way, when Yahshua says that we must watch so that we may escape the "things that shall come to pass" (Luke 21:36), he is not referring to some far-fetched, mystical rapture idea. He means that we will escape Yahweh's judgment on tne earth in the same way that Noah escaped it, by obeying His will and receiving His provision and protection. In much the same way that Noah and his family were preserved through the Flood inside the Ark, so also may we find shelter from the coming storm.

Anyone who preaches that a son or daughter of Yahweh woill be killed by one of His judgments during the Tribulation is preaching Satanic garbage and utter nonsense. There is not a single scrap of evidence in Yahweh's word, not a single occassion in the Bible, in which a righteous man was punished and destroyed by the wrath of Yahweh. Children of Yahweh only die for one reason, and one reason only: they have fulfilled their purpose, and their presence is no longer required in this world. Read Psalm 91 if you don't believe that Yahweh can protect you no matter what happens. Thus, I believe that a rightieous man will only die as a result of persecution (that through his or her martyrdom Yahweh will be glorified) or die peacefully from natural causes. Now, there may possibly be some very few exceptions to this, but that is all they are: possible (but not probable) exceptions, and very few. For those who still refuse to abandon the false doctrine of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, please read 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 and John 17:13-21 (especially verses 15 & 20).

I realize that was a rather extended digression, but I felt led to write it. I know that is something many people still need to hear. If anyone wishes to comment on that digression, please do so by private message and not in this thread.

Now back to the discussion on Kabala. I would definitely like to read people's reactions to the interpretation of the Madonna-Britney-Christina kiss.

Edited for spelling/proof-reading - Ischyros

[Edited on 28-5-2004 by Ischyros]

I read up on Kabbalah a while ago. Its certainly not something that you can just buy a book on and start with. To 'perform' Kabbalistic magick' requires a lot of research and learning. I am with el_topo on this one, a lot of celebrities just go into it as a trendy new experience and usually give up after a little while. Personally, I'm all for people learning new things but not if its just a fad. It reminds me of all the newby wiccans we had after 'Charmed' and 'Sabrina the Teenage Witch' first aired. I daresay some people found their path via these shows, but most were just youg teens looking for a new fad.

I think its just like anything else. One can use it for things other than the original intention. It contains meditation, mantras, and things of that nature. These aren't exactly unique to Kabbalah. Out of the few books I've read on the subject I've seen nothing where it promoted ritual abuse.

Out of the few books I've read on the subject I've seen nothing where it promoted ritual abuse.

Ritual abuse is not something the Illuminati are likely to advertise. All magic is evil because it involves accessing supernatural powers outside the will of Yahweh for the express purpose of self-promotion. It's all about individual status and personal power, not about the supposed benefits it might bring to their fellow man. Some may be deceived into believing they are doing good when they first begin to dabble in the witchcraft, but eventually the power will corrupt them, and they will be enslaved by darkness. Make no mistake, the adept practicioners of such magical arts as sorcery and divination believe themselves to be no less than gods, and the rest of mankind to be no better than cattle.

All powers gained through any other means besides being bestowed as gifts by the Holy Spirit of Yahweh will only destroy those who wield them. But it's not too late. So long as you live, and have not yet taken the Mark of the Beast, you can still choose to forsake the darkness and embrace the light (and not the counterfeit Lucifierian light either).

[Edited on 28-5-2004 by Ischyros]

Here's something that supports your belief Ischyros...apparently, when some people get involved in the Kabbalah they end up losing their mind.
watch.pair.com...

*Sigh* Unstable people are just that -- unstable -- and will lose their minds if they become Christian, Islamic, start studying the occult, or do drugs. There are "ritual abusers" of every religion.

Kabbalah is a complex study, and as a practice it outdates the Illuminati by several hundred years. It has influenced Judaism, Christianity and Islam (as well as magic(k)), and far more than most people realize. The Lord's Prayer itself contains meditations on each of the Sephira on the Tree.

As someone who has studied it for decades, pardon me for trying to say that perhaps people should read some unbiased sources on the subject before they condemn it because of a few fruitcakes.

I'm reading a book right now on it. Kabblah is a variation of the Jewish religion and supposedly it was priests practicing the Kabbalah that trained Jesus.

That is why Jesus was not accepted by the Jewish people even though he was a Jew.

It is rather like a pagan religion... but is not witchcraft per se

Witches are not devil whorshippers they just practice the original pagan religion.

Well, Chevy, I didn't mention that bit about Jesus because I suspected it would set off a serious #storm. And as I tried to state above, satanists aren't pagans -- they're inverted Christians, as they obviously believe in Jesus and God just as fervently as those who go to a Christian church. Pagans don't worship satan or even believe in such an entity, and most witches are pagans. Paganism is a nature-based religion, and satan has no place there.

i just thought of something else lol

For those that are gonna belive that the Kabbalah leads to insanity lol

There are extremists in every religion. You can't judge a religion only by the people who practice it that manage to make the headlines. If you did then Christianity would be judged by what the insane Jim Jones did.

Hecate: lol I like starting chit storms... once you piss someone off it raises thier passion / Magic and then if they truely want the truth it will be revealed to them.


[Edited on 28-5-2004 by Chevy]

Kabbalah is a complex study, and as a practice it outdates the Illuminati by several hundred years.

The Illuminati is only one of the more modern names of an ancient religion and mystery cult. Freemasons, Kabbalists, and other such practicioners of hermetic disciplines have traditions going back thousands of years. They have operated under various titiles throughout the centuries, but the message has always been the same: man can become equal to God if he simply gains the correct sort of enlightenment and involves himself in the prescribed occult practices.

Many believe that all the power elite of the world belong to the same organization, but it is possible that the Democrats and Republicans in the United States do actually represent competing secret societies with slightly different goals. However, if this is true, their ideologies are still not so diametrically opposed as they lead the world to believe. They ultimately serve the same master, for their powers derive from the same source. That source is the Biblical Satan, accuser and advesary of the true children of light, sons and daughters of Yahweh Elohim.

Kabbalah is a variation of the Jewish religion and supposedly it was priests practicing the Kabbalah that trained Jesus.

Kabalah and all magical practices are condemned by the Torah (See Deuteronomy 18:10-14 for example).

Yahshua was not trained by Kabbalists, nor did he ever support any such magical practices.

King James Version Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Yahshua did not encourage chanting, nor the repetiton of magical phrases, in order to enter into trance states or gain enlightenment.

KJV Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Yahshua calls for us to reverence the name of Yahweh, not to use it in magical incantations and rituals in order to attain some illusion of power or divinity.

Yahshua is Yahweh in the flesh, so He has no need of such ritualistic and pagan contrivances, and neither do His followers.

And as I tried to state above, satanists aren't pagans -- they're inverted Christians, as they obviously believe in Jesus and God just as fervently as those who go to a Christian church. Pagans don't worship satan or even believe in such an entity, and most witches are pagans. Paganism is a nature-based religion, and satan has no place there.

KJV James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils* also believe, and tremble.

[*devils is actually daimonian (demon) in Greek.]

Of course Satanists don't believe in the biblical representation of Satan. It would be pretty foolish to worship someone portrayed as malignantly evil and destined to lose. Instead, they believe the same lie that the serpent (nachash also may be tranlsated as sorceror or magician) told Adam and Eve in the garden. They believe that Lucifer is a god of light who will set them free from 'bondage' and 'slavery' to Yahweh and enable them to become gods. But they are really one exchanging one form of servitude for another. Lucifer allows them the freedom to sin, but, in the end, those who follow him will not be able to love or be loved (for there is no love in him), nor will they even have the ability or freedom to live.

Most everyone is good and right in their own eyes because mankind in general is quite adept at finding a multitiude of justifications for whatever manner of illicit acts or heinous crimes they may choose to commit under the sun. But their is an eternal, immutable law of the universe which all of us will one day answer to. And, on that day, supposed ignorance will be no excuse. Yahweh is also a God of righteousness and judgment, as well as being a God of truth and love.

Pagans worship demons (whether they know it or not) and receive their powers from that same infernal source. The demons serve Satan, so the pagans are Satanists by default.

Satan and all the evil, unclean spirits inhabiting the supernatural/extradimensional realms will tell any kind of lie people want to hear just so long as they can make willing slaves out of the children of men. Lies and dissimulation are their modus operandi. Those who are deceived by them are not wise.

The granting of immortality, eternal life, and everlasting love by Yahweh requires only that we, His children, will humble ourselves and accept the sacrifice of His Son Yahshua HaMashiach for our sins. We place our faith in Yahshua, and then live our lives according to the example which He set for us. For we are not saved by our works, but by our works we show that faith does truly operate within us. Yes, salvation requires humility, but most men and women are not willing to give up their pride with the same freedom with which Yahweh gave His only begotten Son.

Ischyros. I agree with what you mention about Noah and the rapture etc.

Not to sure about the MTV kiss thing, but I really dont care, I didnt watch it anyway. But you are right that it is wicked and covered in iniquity!

If you read Ezekial it says that even if DANIEL , NOAH and JOB, who have been the greatest or best examples of RIGHTEOUS God fearing men (this is not inclusive of Jesus Christ ..although Jesus was a man he is the Messiah, in the flesh..son of the Lord of Israel and Creation who died for our sins!) where alive today at the end of the age..they would ONLY save themselves. No member of their family. Noahs family was spared due to his righteousness, but in the end of the age, these men would only be able to spare themselves!

God does not given up on the righteous, and is a strong sheild and tower for them, letting no harm touch them.

Ischyros, are you a Messanic Jew? As you name the Hebrew name of Jesus Christ? If you are , you must have some knowledge of kabbala then as it is part of your culture??? If you are of Hebrew origin please explain tbe difference between rabbinacal judisam and the ancient levite temple system please. Is modern day Judisam the same as the ancient form?

Isch I'm gonna go to the bible and show you passages where men being like god is referred to in the bible. But the first passage that comes to mind is this one 'With the faith of a mustard seed ye could move mountains"

Now if someone moved a mountain you would say what ?

Its the Devil !!!!!

or

Its a man of faith !!!

lol Can't have ya cake and eat it too. If your gonna quote the bible literally then you gotta take it all literally.

I believe even God in the garden of eden made a comment about man being like gods Something about we can't let them realize they are like us... so he then put our light in a flesh body to stop it...

Also if your gonna debate this please don't keep referring to your bible as proof... find some proof outside of your own bible... archeological findings etc. Everyone interprets thier own bible differently hense so many different religioins.

I respect your beliefs I really do... what ever floats ya boat is what I say... but to condemn and make another religion demonic when in fact it isn't is just not very nice...

As for Jesus there is nothing in the bible about his education. The passages that you refer to were written long after Jesus death by people who did not even know him. You have to admit that Jesus was a left winger in his time. His teachings did not conform to the standard Jewish beliefs at that time. If Jesus were alive today he would be a democrate I'm sure lol There is a lot of evidence archeologically that Jesus was educated by priest who practiced the Kaballa... I'm gonna start looking for some links on the web...

[Edited on 29-5-2004 by Chevy]

Ischyros, you are quite mistaken if you think Kabbalah is about becoming "equal to God". Also about Kabbalah & magic being forbidden in the Torah (ummin & thummin, remember those?), in calling me & other pagans satanists, as to the Kabbalistic significance of the Lord's Prayer, the age of the Illuminati ... actually, I can't think of anything you've gotten right so far! It would take hours to correct you point by point, and I've got a life, thanks. I only hope others can look beyond their own prejudices & preconceptions to take an unbiased approach to the subject.

Unlike you, I have taken the time to look at other faiths and practices from the point of view of their practitioners, and have spoken to them in a respectful manner in order to get a better picture of the subjects. To do otherwise -- and slander them in the process by calling them silly names -- is to propitiate those very human demons, Ignorance, Fanaticism and Intolerance. While a path may not be for me (and none -- I repeat, NONE -- are free of whackjobs that make the rest look bad), it is not my place to judge its spiritual validity for others. I leave that to God/dess, and go on my merry, Witchy way.

KSoze, I forgot to thank you for that link. It was very informative. Thank you.

Chevy, we all have spiritual bodies (similar in nature to that of angels) as well as physical bodies. However, after Adam and Eve fell, Yahweh denied us access to our supernatural powers because our corrupt sinful natures would abuse them otherwise. We are not permitted to wield those powers very often, if at all, as long as we have the ability to do evil.

However, at times, when we are obedient to Yahweh, He will allow us to use them according to His will. His Holy Spirit awakens our spirits which have died through sin by our faith in His Son Yahshua, and further empowers those same spirits to work miracles through faith when Yahweh commands or allows.

The Holy Spirit of Yahweh is never beholden to our spirits, but our spirits are beholden to Him. We who ae the children of Yahweh will never seek to wield power for power's sake, but only to do the will of our Father.

On the other hand, Witches and other assorted magic-users receive the aid of rebellious spirits (demons which were formerly the sons of fallen angels and human women) in order to gain access to their spiritual natures, and thus wield supernatural power outside of and contrary to Yahweh's will.

I believe even God in the garden of eden made a comment about man being like gods Something about we can't let them realize they are like us... so he then put our light in a flesh body to stop it...

No, this is what Yahweh said:

KJV Genesis 2:16-17
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

This is what Satan/Lucifer told Eve through his vessel or servant, the Serpent (Ha-Nachash may also be translated as sorceror or magician. See Strong's Exhuastive Concordance #'s 5172, 5173, & 5175):

KJV Genesis 3:4-5
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

This is what happened:

KJV Genesis 3:22-24
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Now, the interesting thing about this incident, which not many seem to grasp, is that Adam and Eve had presumably never been lied to before. They had never spoken with anyone prior to the serpent who contradicted Yahweh's will. Thus they had never yet been exposed to evil. However, if Eve or Adam had made the right decision and asked Yahweh about what the serpent told them before following his wicked advice, Yahweh would have explained to them who the serpent was, or who he was serving. Thus Adam and Eve would have gained the knowledge of good and evil (by understanding that the serpent had lied to them) without having been disobedient to Yahweh, and they wouldn't have been cast out of the Garden. Only the serpent would have been punished for his attempted deception.

Also if your gonna debate this please don't keep referring to your bible as proof... find some proof outside of your own bible... find some proof outside of your own bible... archeological findings etc. Everyone interprets thier own bible differently hense so many different religioins.

The Bible is the word of Yahweh, so I consider it the best authority on everything concerning spirituality and the supernatural world. Certainly there are a few other works inspired by Him which are not in the Bible, but everything else must be taken with a grain of salt and compared with His word. The Bible is the ultimate truth filter. If any information is found which contradicts the Bible, it is incorrect, manipulated, or outright fabricated. Yes, many different people interpret the Bible in different ways, but if someone is a true son or daughter or Yahweh, the Holy Spirit will enable them to interpert it correctly. If we think there might be a problem with the translation in some cases, then all we need to do is learn Hebrew and Greek (at least how to read and write the characters of the languages if not to speak them fluently), and the problems will be solved. The Bible is a wonderful gift which the Lord Yahweh, God of all existence and creation has bestowed upon the children of this world. It is full of wisdom and truth. The fear* of Yahweh (Psalms 111:10, Proverbs 1:7, 9:10) is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge. Reading the Bible is one of the ways we can develop such fear.

*The Hebrew word translated as fear in all three verses is yirah (Strong's reference #3374) may also be translated reverence or piety although the primary meaning is fear.

And archaelogical findings pale in comparison to personal experience with the Holy Spirit of Yahweh.

As for Jesus there is nothing in the bible about his education. The passages that you refer to were written long after Jesus death by people who did not even know him. You have to admit that Jesus was a left winger in his time. His teachings did not conform to the standard Jewish beliefs at that time. If Jesus were alive today he would be a democrate I'm sure lol There is a lot of evidence archeologically that Jesus was educated by priest who practiced the Kaballa

Yahshua was conversing about the Scriptures with the didaskalos (teachers, see Strong's ref. # 1320) in the temple when He was only twelve years old (Luke 2:42-52).

KJV Luke 2:47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

He did not have much need of instruction, for He was/is Yahweh in the flesh.

Also, how do you or anyone else living today, nearly two thousand years later know who did or did not write the Bible? German Higher Criticism of the 19th century and the Jesus Seminar, etc. are merely Satanic plots designed to discredit the authority of Yahweh's revealed truth. You shouldn't trust those people any more than you trust a used carsalelsmen or Skull&Bones Bush and Kerry. Everyone seems to gullible in some way. It's dangerous just take any man's word for anything without researching it yourself.

Maybe you don't realize this, but the Bible does not encourage its readers to just trust everyone and everything.

KJV 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

KJV 1 John 4:1-3
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ [Yashua HaMashiach] is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ [Yashua HaMashiach] is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Yahshua is not liberal or a left winger. He is alive today, and He is certainly not a Republican or a Democrat. Yahshua is a benevolent authoritarian dictator/theocratical monarch. When He returns to the Earth, He will rule with a rod of iron. Any who disobey Him will be destroyed. As for archaelogical evidence concerning a priest who practiced kabalah educating Him, I very much doubt it exists unless someone fabricated, as IT NEVER HAPPENED.

Reason for editing: Left-out word.

[edit on 15-6-2004 by Ischyros]

Since you're mentioning archaeological evidence, Ischyros, I would point out that there is NO achaelogical evidence or contemporary documentation to prove that Jesus (whatever you wish to call him) ever existed. I looked/studied for years, and it's JUST NOT THERE. The passage in Josephus most used to "prove" that Jesus existed is so out of sync with the rest of Josephus' work and worldview that all but the most fanatical of Christians acknowledge it to be a forgery. All other references date up to hundreds of years after the alleged timeframe. This is one of the reasons I didn't want to bring up the references to Jesus being taught by Kabbalists, as any Jewish records of Jesus openly admit that they're based on hearsay.

Further, is it really necessary to quote so much of the Bible? It's in enough places that people can look it up themselves, in whatever translation or language they wish. It's even downloadable! All you're doing is taking up space, and those who don't ascribe to your particular religion (like myself) are just going to skip over the Biblical regurgitation. You cannot prove the validity of a book using merely that book as a source, especially one that has been mistranslated and changed so much over the centuries. It doesn't work when writing college theses, and it doesn't work when trying to have a discussion about a topic you've refused to look at objectively.

If you want to be Christian, fine, be happy with it. But jumping into a discussion about a topic you obviously know nothing about and slandering it and everyone who doesn't believe as you do is the worst sort of disinformation. While I can't speak for anyone but myself, if I want to be preached at, I'll go to Church. Which I no longer do, thanks to intolerant people very much like yourself.

I've studied Kabbalah for 20 years (and other religions for almost the same amount of time), and it permeates a great deal of religious (and magical) thought, Christian and otherwise. Which is no surprise, really, as Kabbalah has been around for quite awhile. The very fact that I HAVE studied Kabbalistic texts makes me laugh at your uninformed rantings about demons, "becoming equal to God", etc. You have no idea what Kabbalah really is, which makes your entire argument null and void.

Ischyros, you are quite mistaken if you think Kabbalah is about becoming "equal to God".

First of all, here is the kabalistic view of God (From www.jewishencyclopedia.com...):

"The doctrine of the En-Sof is the starting-point of all cabalistic speculation. God is the infinite, unlimited being, to whom one neither can nor may ascribe any attributes whatever; who can, therefore, be designated merely as En-Sof ( = "without end," "the Infinite"). Hence, the idea of God can be postulated merely negatively: it is known what God is not, but not what He is. All positive ascriptions are finite, or as Spinoza later phrased it, in harmony with the Cabala, "omnis determinatio est negatio." One can not predicate of God either will or intention or word or thought or deed (Azriel, in Me�r ibn Gabbai's "Derek Emunah," ed. Berlin, p. 4a). Nor can one ascribe to Him any change or alteration; for He is nothing that is finite: He is the negation of all negation, the absolutely infinite, the En-Sof."

Perhaps it is not the stated purpose of kabalah to become equal with God, but it is certainly an occult process by which man may ascend to heaven/paradise or achieve salvation by virtue of his own righteousness and/or esoteric knowledge. In that way, it is no different from any other man-made, Satan-inspired relgion out there.

The Pious.

Closely connected herewith is the doctrine that the pious are enabled to ascend toward God even in this life, if they know how to free themselves from the trammels that bind the soul to the body (see Ascension). Thus were the first mystics enabled to disclose the mysteries of the world beyond. According to Anz, l.c., and Bousset, "Die Himmelreise der Seele," in "Archiv f�r Religionswissenschaft," iv. 136 et seq., the central doctrine of Gnosticism�a movement closely connected with Jewish mysticism�was nothing else than the attempt to liberate the soul and unite it with God. "

(From the same Jewish Encyclopedia Cabala article.)

However, as in all systems of occult knowledge, there is exoteric kabalah, and there is esoteric kabalah.

The following provides some clue to what the more advanced adepts of kabalah may practice:

"Masonic Grand Master, Albert Mackey explained in The Lexicon of Freemasonry that uttering the Name of God endued one with the power of God. Note Mackey's reference to the lost name of God, which Master Masons receive upon their initiation into the 3rd degree, according to the Masonic Legend of Hiram Abiff:

". . .The Tetragrammaton might only be uttered once a year on the Day of Atonement by the High Priest in the Holy of Holies alluding to amid the sound of trumpets and cymbals which prevented the people from hearing it. "

[No evidence in the Old Testament/Tanakh for this. Certainly not in the days before pre-Babylonian conquest and exile. However, this may be what Yahshua is alluding to in the following verse:

KJV Luke 11:52
52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. - Ischyros]

"It is said that in consequence of the people thus refraining from its utterance, the true pronunciation of the name was at last lost. The Jews further believed that the Tetragrammaton was possessed by unbounded powers. He who pronounces it shakes heaven and earth and inspires the very angels with astonishment and terror.' The Ineffable Name thus conferred miraculous gifts; it was engraved on the rod of Moses and enabled him to perform wonders, just as, according to the Toledot Yeshu, it conferred the same powers on Christ. . ." [(2) Mackey, Lexicon of Freemasonry, p. 156; as cited in Nesta Webster, Secret Societies & Subversive Movements, p.167]"

(From watch.pair.com...)

Also about Kabbalah & magic being forbidden in the Torah (ummin & thummin, remember those?)

The urim and thummim (lights and perfection was not a magical item [not quite clear from the Scripture whether it was one item or two]. It may have been a stone, or it may have been some sort of device beyond our knowledge or understanding. We don't really know for sure. What we do know is that was a way for the High Priest of Israel to communicate directly with Yahweh. King David also used it on a few occasions.

Obviously, Moses isn't going to instruct the Israelites not to practice magic while allowing his brother Aaron to do it. Furthermore, Yahweh struck two of Aaron's sons dead for offering strange (zur) fire before His altar, so He would certainly have destroyed Aaron if he was practicing forbidden magic. While we can not be certain at this time what the urim and thummim was/were, we can be assured that it/they did not fit Yahweh's definition of the magic and witchcraft which he condemned.

Unlike you, I have taken the time to look at other faiths and practices from the point of view of their practitioners, and have spoken to them in a respectful manner in order to get a better picture of the subjects. To do otherwise -- and slander them in the process by calling them silly names -- is to propitiate those very human demons, Ignorance, Fanaticism and Intolerance.

Well, I have not only read the Bible, I have also read the Apocrypha, the Book of Enoch, the Book of Jubilees, assorted other Jewish Pseudepigrapha, the Book of Mormon (I'm not, nor have I ever been a Mormon) the Qu'ran/Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, and the Dao de Jing/Tao te Ching. I even read Aleister Crowley's book of the law on one of my darker days (which is a filthy, evil, dirty little Satanic piece of trash and I don't reccommend it to anyone).

While I believe that parts of the Book of Enoch, the Apocrypha, and Jewish Pseudepigrapha also may be inspired by Yahweh, I did not find any one of the other books from the other religions which had anywhere near the same level of truth and wisdom which the Bible contains. I have no interest in reading books on magic and occultism because I realize they are nothing more than mental and spiritual poison, with many traps laid within to capture the minds and souls of the unwary.

I'm not ignorant, I'm not a fanatic, but I am intolerant. That's becaue Yahweh and His Son Yahshua are intolerant, and so I follow their example. The King of kings and Lord of lords, Yahweh the God of the universe, is gracious, merciful, and full of love, but He is also a pure, just, and truthful God who cannot abide wickedness and evil. If any human does not seek His forgiveness, they will receive His wrath. It's His way or the hell-way. Take your pick.

KJV Luke 19:26-27
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


KJV Matthew 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.