An Interesting Conversation Between A Student And Teacher

reply to post by ModernAcademia


An interesting discussion...

I agree, people that love science are perhaps obsessed with the concept of duality!

I always liked the "Oh God" answer given by George Burns (who played God in the film)... When asked why God made bad things happen, he answered, "Well, I never learned to make anything with just one side...can't have light without dark, good without bad, happy without sad....." (etc., etc.)

For me, a much more interesting and compelling discussion is the existential notion that nothing, even our presence here, the fact that we're reading this at all, or even having this discussion, can be definitively proved.

The notion that even science relies on at lest the single assumption that our perceptions and measurements are accurate.

That even consciousness itself is not unequivocal proof of our presence as we conceive or and perceive it currently. All we know with absolute certainty is that something exists, whereby some process or mechanism gives rise to whatever it is we think we are experiencing as conscious awareness. We cannot prove beyond all doubt that it's what we perceive, measure, and believe it to be.

And if that's the case, then literally anything is possible.

Just me musing.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
If you guys take everything literally you`re not going to understand Spirituality.

Ah the old, tired and flawed we dont understand argument.

What is there to understand? Literally. I mean write it down.

The whole not understanding thing can turned around quite quickly. You guys have no understanding of science or logic and hence fall for the old conversation between a student and teacher every time it comes up. even when it's a different student and teacher. You have no idea about rationale or reason and dont see the myriad of flaws in the conversation.

Maybe you just dont understand that we do understand and just arent convinced by nonsensical arguments.

Originally posted by watcher73
Ah the old, tired and flawed we dont understand argument.

What is there to understand? Literally. I mean write it down.

The previous poster said "But there is such a thing as Darkness". This is taking the concept of "there is no such thing as Darkness" literally which completely bypasses ANY sort of understanding what is meant by the statement.

I explained what is meant by the statement in the last post.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by watcher73
Ah the old, tired and flawed we dont understand argument.

What is there to understand? Literally. I mean write it down.

The previous poster said "But there is such a thing as Darkness". This is taking the concept of "there is no such thing as Darkness" literally which completely bypasses ANY sort of understanding what is meant by the statement.

I explained what is meant by the statement in the last post.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by Skyfloating]

I meant about spirituality. Not about darkness or lightness.

Originally posted by watcher73
You guys have no understanding of science or logic

Nope. I absolutely love and revere both logic and science.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by downisreallyup
That's a good one! You think that cloning is the same as creating? For your information, cloning is simply scientists tinkering with the mechanisms already in place. Sorry, but no creation there!

Just to play devils' advocate perhaps natural birth is also the same thing.

It's not like there's nothing there and then pouuff there's a baby!

No that's now how it works.
A man uses his sperm and sends it to bond with a woman's egg that belongs to her. After that a baby is starts to get created inside a woman's womb with her doing way more of the development and creation and maintenance than what you consider to be god's work of creation.

Isn't natural birth a man and a woman tinkering with each other with things already in place and then a baby is created?

Spirituality doesnt exist.

It is merely the absence of understanding.

It is the dark without the light.

Originally posted by watcher73
Spirituality doesnt exist.

It is merely the absence of understanding.

It is the dark without the light.

Say what????

To me spirituality comes from understanding, or seeing connections between many things in the universe. Kind of Celestine Prophecy-like.

I don't think you understand the meaning of spirituality.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Heh, clever.
I have one for you too:


HELL EXPLAINED BY CHEMISTRY STUDENT
The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington
chemistry mid term.
The answer by one student was so "profound" that the professor shared it
with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now have the
pleasure of enjoying it as well :

Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas
cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant.
One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist
in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.
This gives two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter
Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all
Hell breaks loose.
2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell
then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, "It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen
over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it
follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct.....
leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which
explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting "Oh my God."

THIS STUDENT RECEIVED AN A+.

I've been on this site for a month and i've seen this story 3 times.

There has always been one question that I can't get over. If there is a God, and there was nothing before he created everything, where did God come from? The Jewish Kabbalah tries to answer this, but even it requires that something, some element or energy existed for God to, excuse the wording, evolve from.

If God does exist, I am sure he is neither good nor evil, he just us is. If we are made in God's image, and we behave as we do, what does this tell us about God? Satan does not exist, he is only another facet of God.

reply to post by sv_gravity 800


Which story?
Mine, or the other one?

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

Well, for starters:

It has been proven that the Earth isn't 6000 years old.

It has been proven that prayer has no effect on patient survival.

It has been proven that men don't lack a rib, as compared to women.

It has been proven that languages evolved through geographic and cultural separation, not through some silly tower-building escapade.

[edit on 2/2/2010 by VneZonyDostupa]

1) There are theories that the earth is older than 6,000 years. Science hasn't proven anything in this regard, even if they claim they have. I do not accept the idea, but some Christians believe in a non-literal 6-day creation. I do believe it. Again though, the "proof" just isn't there.

2) Some people with terminal illness die, even after they have been prayed for. Some have gotten better without any scientific explanation. Everyone dies eventually. There is no way to prove this argument one way or the other.

3) The belief that men have one less rib then women came from some people who speculated and made assumptions based off the creation story. I remember being taught this myself as a child. A quick read through the creation account in Genesis shows that this was not taught. It is NOT taught in the Bible and it is NOT believed by most educated Christians.

4) Umm... geographical and cultural separation that happened as a result of the Tower of Babel? I don't see how this proves or disproves anything either.

None of the above things mentioned prove or disprove anything for either side of the argument. Creation itself is proof enough of God's existence, but if a person will not except that, not even miracle will convince them.

Originally posted by Mykahel
1) There are theories that the earth is older than 6,000 years. Science hasn't proven anything in this regard, even if they claim they have. I do not accept the idea, but some Christians believe in a non-literal 6-day creation. I do believe it. Again though, the "proof" just isn't there.

Geological strata, isotope dating, and archaeologic findings dating to over 6000 years of age prove this.

2) Some people with terminal illness die, even after they have been prayed for. Some have gotten better without any scientific explanation. Everyone dies eventually. There is no way to prove this argument one way or the other.

Prayer is Inneffective - Harvard Medical School

3) The belief that men have one less rib then women came from some people who speculated and made assumptions based off the creation story. I remember being taught this myself as a child. A quick read through the creation account in Genesis shows that this was not taught. It is NOT taught in the Bible and it is NOT believed by most educated Christians.

So, because YOU don't believe this claim of the Bible, it doesn't matter if it's contradicted or not? I wish I could pick and chose what I believe in like that without worrying about reality.

4) Umm... geographical and cultural separation that happened as a result of the Tower of Babel? I don't see how this proves or disproves anything either.

Languages and cultures have evolved at different times in different places. Unless there were thousands of "Towers of Babel", and they randomly fell for over ten thousand years in random spots around the globe, I think you're pretty out of luck on this argument.

None of the above things mentioned prove or disprove anything for either side of the argument.

According to you.

Creation itself is proof enough of God's existence,

Again, according to you.

but if a person will not except that, not even miracle will convince them.

If my water turned into wine with the pass of a hand, or I saw a blind man healed by a simple touch, I would absolutely believe in a god. As it stands, that has not, and will never, happen.

reply to post by bloodWolf762


I can't explain where God came from and I don't think anyone can. One of the best ways that God's infinite existence was explained to me was that time is actually circular and not linear like we perceive.

If infinity is a circle, or any other shape like the infinity symbol itself, and we live and die in a fixed period, we only experience a line fragment of that time. We don't see eternity because to us we see a beginning and an end. God has always existed and had no beginning. For a Christian this is a basic truth that must be accepted, as God himself says that He always was, is and will be. One of His names is the great "I AM." He exists in all times and places.

Another argument is that God is outside of time and that time itself is a created thing. For that reason he has always existed. I am not sure how that theory works exactly, but then again my experience has never been outside of time, as we are all bound by it. Who am I to understand God?

Satan is not another facet of God. God is good, and Satan is evil. He is a perfect representation of the rebellion against God that is in each of us. That does not mean that he does not exist as an actual being though...

Originally posted by Mykahel
I can't explain where God came from and I don't think anyone can.

God came from Man!

Originally posted by Mykahel
Satan is not another facet of God. God is good, and Satan is evil. He is a perfect representation of the rebellion against God that is in each of us. That does not mean that he does not exist as an actual being though...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

See the above thread regarding Satan not being a facet of god but rather being god and god being Satan.

If my water turned into wine with the pass of a hand, or I saw a blind man healed by a simple touch, I would absolutely believe in a god. As it stands, that has not, and will never, happen.

Yet neither of those things would prove God existed even if they where to happen. Good to see you have solid reasoning behind your stance.

Just to share my thoughts as contribution to this thread.

If I claim eating one apple a day will cure one of cancer, there may not be anyone who will believe me. Some of the more desperates one have nothing to lose, and will try.

After following my teaching for 5 months, he got well, with the cancer cells disappearing! Many others began to believe and viola - many were equally made well.

So did I cure the patient of victims or was it my teachings? It was my teachings followed that healed them. I did nothing. Notice that difference?

There lays the belief in religion. It is not about the person. Religion had never been a cult of personality. It was the teachings that mattered, and vital. Only in appreciation of the teachings that healed someone, gave comfort to him/her, is the person venerated.

Why are there so many Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus in the world and NOT one SeekerofTruth101'ist? It is simply because not only do the people try out the teachings, they realized it brought comfort and solace to their lives and better interaction with others, and thus their veneration of the one who taught them

But what did I teach? Nothing. No one was healed, no one found solace, no one found comfort, my non existant teachings was neither proven right or wrong, thus there is no SeekerofTruth101ist! Anyone who right now subscribe to my teachings or the lack of it would be considered delusional! Who am I anyway???

However, there are too many Christians, Muslims, Buddists and Hindus to claim them delusional. There has to be something to it that made them believe, the way science was believed to hold answers to everything. But unlike science, religion can be felt and touched emotionally, and proven right with relations to others being better.

Some say it is pyschological, but how much do we understand neurosciences today, as it is still in its infancy and many questions yet unanswered? Perhaps one day we may find that link, then science and religion will become one.

But in the present, it need not be divisive. There are aknowledged people whom will not believe in religion. It is their right. As young naive innocent children, they must have been disappointed far too many times for asking and yet recieving nothing.

Many of these people often qoute that in the bible, stating that if man were to seek, he will find, and if he ask, it will be given.

But these people were only partially right, for the bible had a clause to it. It will only be found and given IF the teachings were followed and adhered to, which is often ignored by them. I am sure Stalin if he was still alive today will never find and will never be given anything!

And from such disappointments, it becomes their mental shield, to prevent them from opening up their minds to explore, for their emotions had been burnt too often to ever be revealed again. That shield of disbelief only gets thicker with each passing year. It is their comfort and solace

The Berlin wall built by the E. German was explained to their citizens and children that it was to prevent the W. German from coming into their commie heaven and protect the state. But in reality, it was to keep the citizens in and preventing them from mass exodus into W. German capitalist paradise. It was nothing more than a prison to its citizens.

Thus, to those who dont believe and yet chasten others for their religious beliefs, are they building their own prisons of the mind to protect their frayed emotions?

I humbly and sincerly apologise, if anyone is offended by my post, for I meant no offense or pinpointing anyone for castigation.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
It sure would be nice for the magical fairy god of the christians to exist.

Isnt it funny how in the bible people are always talking to god and seeing miracles.... but none of that exists today...

o right, its satans fault..... sigh.

how do you know that the people in the bible witnessed those events in the bible?
how do you know that people are not seeing and experiencing god and miracles today?

are you not a member of ats?
are you not presented with all sorts of unfamiliar events every day that you visit here?
why are you here?
would these be considered miracles?

if someone were to approach you and explain how they have seen god and witnessed a miracle would you believe them?
if the accounts in the bible are true, do you think anyone believed them back then?

what is a miracle? what is god?
are you projecting your belief here in order to receive validation from someone else so that you may feel secure in your reality?

just for clarification, i am not defending the bible or god. what i am wondering is why people like you feel that it is necessary to question and ridicule what someone may believe.

who questions you?
what is it about someone else's belief that threatens you?