An Interesting Conversation Between A Student And Teacher

An Atheist Professor of Philosophy speaks to his class on the problem Science has with God, The Almighty.

He asks one of his new students to stand and.....



Prof: So you believe in God?
Student: Absolutely, sir.

Prof: Is God good?
Student: Sure.


Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student: Yes.


Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal
him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God
didn't.
How is this God good then? Hmm?

(Student is silent.)

Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fellow. Is
God good?
Student: Yes.

Prof: Is Satan good?
Student: No.

Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student: From...God...

Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student: Yes.

Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything.
Correct?
Student: Yes.

Prof: So who created evil?


Student does not answer.


Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these
terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student: Yes, sir.

Prof: So, who created them?


Student has no answer.


Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe
the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student: No, sir.

Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student: No, sir.

Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student: Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.

Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.

Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.

Student: And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.

Student: No sir. There isn't.


(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)


Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat,
mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.

Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the
absence of it.


(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)


Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as
darkness?


Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?

Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of
something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,
flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have
nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness
isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker,
wouldn't you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.

To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it.

Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.


Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?


(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize
where the argument is going.)


Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?


(The class is in uproar.)


Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the
Professor's brain?


(The class breaks out into laughter.)


Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's
brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so.
So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable,
demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir.

With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?


(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)


Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.

Student: That is it sir... The link between man & god is FAITH . That is all that keeps things moving & alive.

www.slideshare.net...

This student was none other than Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam, the Ex-President of India.

I thought this was a pretty good discussion and on an extremely philosophical standpoint, perhaps more than so any other discussion or article you may ever read.

I agree, people that love science are perhaps obsessed with the concept of duality!

Edit: Origins/Source of this Story unknown/disputed

Mod added Note Upon Member Request

[edit on 3-2-2010 by Skyfloating]

Im familiar with the concepts but starred and flagged because its a good intro to spiritual-thought beyond the dualistic "fight the fundies"-slogan many atheists narrow their atheism down to.

It sure would be nice for the magical fairy god of the christians to exist.

Isnt it funny how in the bible people are always talking to god and seeing miracles.... but none of that exists today...

o right, its satans fault..... sigh.

S&F

I thoroughly enjoyed reading that debate between the student and teacher.

Personally I’m not someone who believes in religion or the stories from the bible but I still think it’s sad that people can try and attack those who do believe in it.

But well done to the student for at least standing his ground and sticking up for his faith I’m sure some others would have just wanted to sit down quietly and pretend nothing happened.

reply to post by Wertdagf

Muslims find that christian concept of talking with god somewhat laughable as their understanding of god a bit different.
This isn't just about the christian god.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

I agree, people that love science are perhaps obsessed with the concept of duality!

True, but there's an even deeper realization in the above conversation ... one that deconstructs all conceptual relativity, including science and faith.

thanks for sharing the story.

[edit on 1 Feb 2010 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by Moonsouljah


Dont the muslims have their version of the pope? Im sure he says god tells him all sorts of stuff.

At the top of every religion there is always a liar shoveling %^&$ into the ears of their believers. Its a pitty god does nothing.

O right, its satans fault.....

Just because the philosophy professor isn't as versed in electro-magnetic, evolutionary, or biological science, doesn't make the scientific claims any less credible, not the belief in an unseen god anything but incredible....But alas, is incredible nothing but the lack of credibility. Not all that convincing, really.

Best,
Skunknuts

S & F! That was good, and made my day. I was expecting him to get a little reamed by the prof, especially at the no brain part, but that's what good prof's do, they listen to the ideas, and don't take it personal.

reply to post by Wertdagf

Uhhh...I think you should maybe enroll in a religious studies class at your local community college or read wikipedia or something instead of brain-dumping clearly ignorant, almost bigoted views of major religions.

Actually light is darkness when it has nothing to reflect itself on

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Moonsouljah

 

Dont the muslims have their version of the pope? Im sure he says god tells him all sorts of stuff.

At the top of every religion there is always a liar shoveling %^&$ into the ears of their believers. Its a pitty god does nothing.

O right, its satans fault.....

The Christians I know don't follow religious teachings that only serve the church. We try to live by the words of Christ and treat others the same way we want to be treated. When we screw up or act selfishly or unkindly to another, we blame ourselves - not this little cartoon shoulder devil you seem to be referring to. We were given freewill by God - that's why it may seem to some that "God does nothing". I think a majority of us don't want to just sit on the couch playing playstation or hang out in mommy and daddy's basement mocking beliefs we don't understand while waiting for some magical genie god to fix all of the worlds problems. That is not God. God is the Creator and He is also where we go when this mortal life is over. He is not a being to dictate your selfish wishes to.

S & F OP.

reply to post by YoungGod88


woah

To the OP, S&F great story and thanx for sharing it. the student could have easily kept his thoughts to himself, but it was great to see him(in a literal sense) stand up for his beliefs, and be able to provide a remarkable counter arguement to his teacher.

hmmm... I can already see some of the ATS members ranting/arguing on about religions and such, but i believe they are missing the overall message in this thread.

...and that is to stand up for yourself, and be able to 'logically' defend your beliefs and (as the professor showed) become able to let go of present beliefs when someone else provides a 'logical' explaination of why your philosophy may be flawed. As demonstrated, this situation can be applied to a lot more than just god.

It is important to keep an open mind if you want to see the 'BIG' picture, but if you choose to stay narrow minded you close yourself off to most of the other possible outlets, such as learning, evolving(mentally/spiritually), certain realizations, and experiences you could of had. A life of silence, and acceptance of other peoples opinions (which they may present as facts) lables you nothing more than a sheep following all the other sheep. STNAND OUT and STAND UP for what you believe in, but remain reseptive enough to truely understand the philosophy others before you judge, and possibly even adopt them as your own.

-H4

*error post*

[edit on 1-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

Awesome post~
A similar conversation is rumored between young Einstein and his professor!



LOVE

that`s right, that students reasoning is only good for cheap laughs. a class clown.

" have you seen porf`s brains?" everyone laughs. there are quite a few people who have seen it. medical personnel for example. brains are available for everyone to go see in museums of natural sciences. has everyone seen God? is it available for everyone to go see it? please.

he speaks of duality and how the prof believes it. pfft, the whole premise of Christianity is based on duality.

this whole convo goes to show that the prof in question is just not that bright.

Wonderful read. Star and Flag.

A very concise and effective introduction to the truth of One. I think it is well beyond a 'theory' of One, and is empirically evident that it is a law of One.

Its just how things are, and no reductionist scientist will be able to debunk Oneness.

Anyways, look what the reductionist/materialist program gave us: Quantum Mechanics...

We all know where that whole thing ended up.

The biggest proponent of New Age spirituality and oneness is the same science that has denounced the existence of god for so long.

reply to post by marsvolta


Or perhaps neither person has the right answer and so for either one to ascertain their stance as fact is a fallacy. Which would make the student right in this case.

reply to post by marsvolta


he speaks of duality and how the prof believes it. pfft, the whole premise of Christianity is based on duality.

not really, the quotes run something like if you look into another's eyes you see god. Or God is everything, perhaps it's time to take another look my understanding is that christianity is a believe in a oneness called god. Our dualistic seperation is something we do to make it interesting.

To me their is no chance to deny oneness as we are always on the inside of the bubble. However their are also many other beliefs equally that can not be proven wrong. (which is why I find belief inappropriate to the human condition) Each to their own though!