What should be an intelligent species main goal?

Originally posted by brarew
Hey all, i joined this little party late so sorry if I reiterate any thoughts previously expressed. The "elite" as I have seen it put, are elected by us, we put them there. So we don't really get to cry over spilled milk. You want to be one of them, get involved in your community and start running for office.

the only problem with that line of reasoning is if WE didnt elect the so called leaders. are you personally going to could all the votes ? i dont think so buddy. its all based on trust and assumptions. Everybody thinks that there is someone who is keeping the rats honest well look around nobody is keeping anybody honest. the cats away and the rats are throwing a all weekend party.

Hard to say what the single biggest goal should be, but I believe the biggest ones are ending rule BY secrecy, forsaking mere beliefs (religious and political) in favor of the DESIRE for (objective-by-definition) facts (and actually obtaining the facts by way of said desire) without influence of out-of-control egos and fears that result from valuing beliefs over facts. Folks on this rock have quite a long way to go, obviously. Technological advancement alone isn't enough, I would wager.

Since we're on ATS I'll put a highlight on a conspiracy in which the elites have ensured their existence beyond this planet. Most of you have watched the X Files and the theory that we're all just bunch of slaves working to ensure continued existence of our slave masters is pretty realistic.

For the last 4500 or maybe even more years, there's an old conspiracy about a race of godly beings ruling our planet and beyond. Only by worshipping these deities one can ensure his survival and eventual immortality. Being immortal or having "eternal life" could also mean ensuring infinite existence of one's family or specie. This was a very accepted and common knowledge among kingdoms and their rulers for a long time before Christ. There was and still is a complex hierarchy between the king, priests and others - king with the help of his priests would worship certain deities thus ensuring kingdom's eternal life.

Today not much has changed, high ranking politicians worship pagan deities, join secret societies that perform rituals. Israel is about to sacrifice a cow and expect a messiah, Christians expect the same messiah without cows killed, Muslims go to extreme lengths to ensure everlasting life. Even some Buddhists perform mass animal sacrifices, and some do have not so pretty deities. Some people including David Icke and Alex Collier almost have a religion of their own, which reveals that our most influential people have a pact with not so pretty reptilian-looking race of aliens which will allow "collaborators" to continue their human bloodlines.

If you do a lot of research, you realize that highest political figures are very much concerned with survival of the species, more than you'd like to believe. According to religious texts and preachings of modern alleged "contactees", the means to accomplish that task may not be pretty - from feeding crocodiles with human babies 3000 years ago to feeding alien reptiles with children today. All in name of immortality, after life, and survival of spiciest - well those are all good things, right?

I myself strongly believe in Karma and reincarnation and that we're all one regardless of your current specie. So, my ideal motto would be 'don't worry be happy' which I try to accomplish. For that, lots of virtues are required - discipline, responsibility, purity, understanding and loving etc. In fact, while we're so greatly concerned with our species, humans may already be on god knows how many planets without us even knowing... may be.

To better ourselves.

2nd line

reply to post by MouldyCrumpet


I was with you until you got all left wing looney about your otherwise wise thought. As the president would say, I want to be very clear on this. As we spread out through our solar system and then to the rest of the galaxy, a military presence will be neccasary for the protection and defense of our people and missions. Capitalism is how the technology will evovlve to the point of space travel, exploration, and colonization. People work hard to earn their living and should not be ashamed of buying things that help them or make them happy.

Wait a minute, are you talking about colonization? Do you mean like Spain, England, France, Holland, etc?

Originally posted by MouldyCrumpet

With all this info in mind I have come to the conclusion if there is other intelligent life out there, then the reason we haven’t found any or its rare enough that we can be lied to about it is because of how rare it really is. For life to exist in any form is rare. For life to first exist and then exist long enough to evolve to our current level prior to being wiped out is rarer still. And for intelligence life to exist long enough to develop ways to spread out prior to being wiped out would be pretty much nonexistent.

1. Compare Earth to a grain of sand on the beach.
2. You have managed to determine that the adjacent grain of sand has large planets but you do not have the technology (resolution) to determine if there are earth sized planets let alone the chemical make up.
3. With this information you state that there is no life on any other grain of sand throughout the world ie our solar system
4. Then compare one grain of sand to our solar system and all grains of sand to all galaxies in the universe.
5. State again there is no life save that on Earth

NOT A HOPE IN HELL YOU ARE RIGHT. It is sheer arrogance and/or a total misunderstanding of the colossal scale of the search!

If there is one thing that earth based discoveries are showing it is that life is exceptionally resilient and can survive in extreme conditions.,...... and that's just earth conditions! It is more than likely that the universe is teeming with life. We sit in a solar system at the edge of a spiral arm rather than a "busy" area. If you are an explorer looking for life where do you go looking? At the sparse edge (where we are) or the denser inner areas?

Finally this civilization lifetime issue. Arrogance creeps in again in that we assume they will be as aggressive and paranoid as us and thus won't last long. Maybe that's why they haven't said hello. Would you walk into a lions den to shake a paw in friendship?

The ultimate role of our species is to do as we have been programmed to do, and what every other lifeform is programmed to do...

to spread out and multiply for survival of our species through diversity. Diverse forms, locations, etc.

The stars are our goal...after that...perhaps dimensions...but for now, we need to take the next step...space stations and local planets...and try not to die in the process.

I think also with our genetic understanding, it would be wise to form new species that can survive and thrive underwater should anything happen to the atmosphere. This wont happen soon because people are weirded out by the idea of having both a nose and gills...but perhaps in a thousand or two years, their will be this option in some form. Adaptation and expansion is the destiny of all lifeforms...but only a very few make it to assure their continued existance in the universe...or even on this small blue ball

-edit hamfisted typos-

[edit on 30-1-2010 by SaturnFX]

What should be an intelligent species main goal?

IMHO the main goal(s) for an intelligent species should be, to live with freedom, peace and be allowed to aspire to anything you want to be without prejudice and lastly, not to judgemental to anybody or anything.

[edit on 30-1-2010 by franspeakfree]

The only attribute you could associate with an "advanced" species would be this: They live in space, all the time, they would wander the universe and use planets as "bases" to continue the species but would have acknowledged the fact that the Universe itself is designed to exterminate all life, eventually, if you were stuck living on a planet somewhere. Advanced species/civilizations would understand you have to be nomadic to avoid the unimaginable and uncontrollable energies that the Universe unleashes every day and would have the technology and policies in place to just avoid the Universe when it's having a big hissy !

reply to post by MouldyCrumpet


God.

Second line.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Yes I am all for survival but we don't need to destroy the ecosystem for us to survive. At least not in the short run! If we look after nature, nature will look out for us. If we abandon her, she will abandon us.

I think we should be concerned about 3 things:

1)Protect ourselfs from space threats
2)Stop contaminating our enviroment
3)Curtail population growth

You keep saying "lets have trillions populating earth" and honestly I don't understand the logic behind that! Instead of over-populating earth to such a horrible degree why not expand our presence throughout the solar system and beyond?

It is definitely better to have 10 billion humans on each planet happely co-existing with nature than putting all your eggs in one basket. If by bad luck or by design some rogue asteroid was to come crashing down on earth and everyone became obliterated than that spells our own extinction, much like it did for the dinosaurs eons ago.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Agreed, most definitely not in the short term! The population growth should not be restricted though. A huge population is crucial to our survival and time is a wastin.

A large population guarantees a path to the stars, as it would demand additional resources etc. All of the Earth can be put to work and a population in the 100's of billions supported easily all with the tools that we now posses. Nature will dump on us guaranteed, we must master nature in order to survive. We should stop rolling the dice and put our long term survival above the needs of other species.

Envision the oceans being farmed not unlike this scenario.
1.Some creatures that feed upon the plankton eating species are killed off or have their numbers regulated, as to not over compete with us.
2.The oceans are fertilized and the increased plankton blooms and the resulting bio mass are harvested for both an energy source (Converted to oil) and as food stocks for the entire human population.

This would require the technology to manage atmospheric C02 levels to maintain the idea plankton output and as such would lead to the technology needed to better manage our atmospere. The management of plankton levels will also provide the knowledge that future humans will use to manage all ocean bound species.

It is destructive testing on a grand scale, and if it all ended in failure we will have only created room for diversity in future species.

A population of ten billion living in harmony with nature will never acquire the technology to manage events that will threaten our species, or aquire the tools need for long term survival. These natural systems we love so much are screwed with or without us. I'm sorry but to just close your eyes and cross your fingers guarantees extinction for our species. Cosmic collisions are just one of many thousands of events that threaten our long term survival. It is only by the complete mastery of our earthly environment and others that we will endure.

That said we cannot allow pollution like has taken place in China and elsewhere, but we can allow extinction of species in the wild if they hinder our ability to survive, or serve no beneficial purpose whatsoever. The technology that would be acquired by humans a million years from now is not comprehendible by the modern human but one could imagine that even viruses and bacteria would be under human rule, and that all life wherever we may find it would be consolidated for the sole benefit of our species. It is survival not a fairy princesses day dream!



[edit on 30-1-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


dean didnt you do a whole thread about this some time ago?
and didnt you soud totally ridiculous making assumptions about population and man kinds future that is has no logical basis?


I think you should post the link to that thread so we can see how badly I dismantled your perspective on this.

reply to post by liquidsmoke206


How badly you dismantled what?

Arent you the guy who wanted a source for the fact that 98% of all species that have ever existed are now exstinct.

Your uneducated and unwilling to consider any point that is not within your limited vision. I never said we should run out and destroy the environment. Human populations in the future will face these choices, and one would hope that their choice will be one of survival.


[edit on 31-1-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by MouldyCrumpet


We should strive to breed the best among us. Those that display the best characteristics are encouraged to breed, while those that are of lesser quality are discouraged. Such mechanisms have always existed in the structure of nature itself; those that adapt, survive and grow are rewarded. However man's mechanisms to ensure this have been somewhat limited, and the reaction of nature to negative behaviour has often been slow in relation to our civilizations' lifetimes.

reply to post by concernedcitizan


That may well be a requirement for long term survival. Have you ever seen the movie Idiocracy?
veehd.com...

I find it almost inconceivable that even an intelligent individual can still, despite all evidence, believe in man and the majority, and continuously keep hitting his head on the wall. How can he not admit even in this situation that man is possible only - when nature cannot do it anymore - when the discipline, banning, enforcement and oppression of another clear-sighted human prevents him from indulging in his destructive impulses, to commit suicide? How does he justify democracy? Does he not still see that unless man, Western culture, grows humble and bows very deeply, he will assuredly ransack and scavenge the globe to its bones, no matter how he would change chemicals into others and switch his methods of energy production? How can he not perceive that if we hold to man's rule over nature and preserve the value human life has in Western nations, only a straight road into the black pit of extinction remains? How can anyone think so insanely that human life has the same value and mankind the same morality, independent of numbers? It is clear to me that every time a new child is born, the value of every human in world decreases slightly. It is obvious to me that the morality of the population explosion is wholly unlike than when man was a sparse, noble species in his beginning.

reply to post by concernedcitizan


Well said friend, but I believe in man. How would you suggest mankind survive?

Why can’t we manage the natural systems on Earth and ensure our continued existence? How does the issue of humane conduct fit into a discussion of survival despite the odds?


If mankind striped the Earth to its "Bones" and we killed ourselves. We will have only created a window for diversity in future species. We cannot hurt the Earth only ourselves, and other species which are all doomed with or without us. At present our future depends entirely upon the future of our natural environment and it is this restraint that must be broken if we wish to survive into a perpetual future.

Mankind could well master space and time thereby ensuring our long term survival. To reach this goal will likely take a million years and the forcing to push mankind to the stars.

How might we survive a million years? By mastering our environment and gaining the technology to avert any and all global catastrophe that we may face.

What may push mankind to the stars? A population that demands resources beyond those found on Earth and our closest stellar bodies.

To argue that the natural environment will see us through millennium is to argue that by placing a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger one might survive so long as the primer did not ignite. We can take the reins and learn to manage our world. We do not have to be bound to the natural systems. We can both replace and support the systems needed to maintain human life. We must have the ability to control climate, weather and thousands of other crucial systems that we currently depend on.

And no we should not run out and start tearing down the natural order of things, but we should begin to take exploratory steps. A science of terascaping and natural systems management should be developed as soon as possible.

Have you ever seen the doumentary The Privileged Planet? veehd.com... I like to believe that this conduct is in accordance with the will of our design. That there is some greater destiny to be had. These natural systems which we love are doomed, and so long as we remain dependent upon them we are as well. I refuse to accept that it is all for not, and that none will be left to tell the tale of our existence. Would you doom humankind for the sake of non human species?

That said, maybe you are right. Maybe there is no hope for long term survival and by preserving the natural checks and balances we stave off our impending doom for as long as possible. Maybe an extra day or two in geologic terms is all we can hope for. How the hell would anyone really know?

It is not a problem you or I have to concern ourselves with. You are right in that we should be focused on the preservation of the natural system we depend on. I post more to point that depopulation could spell the end of the human species. That in the future man must completely master his environment or face certain extinction. That a clear path to the stars is the only path to a perpetual existence.


[edit on 31-1-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by Donkey_Dean

How badly you dismantled what?

This: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Check out mine and Scramjet76's responses. Your argument really doesnt hold any water...

Your uneducated

source???

unwilling to consider any point that is not within your limited vision.

aren't you the one who started a thread called Why depopulation is an idiots dream?? that doesn't sound like you're limiting yourself at all...

Your ideas for motivating our species are very dangerous. Mankind will travel the stars soon enough, we dont need overpopulation to get us there, why would we??