Israel should be tried for war crimes

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Nomadic palestinians started settling there after the dispersion of israelis from the unholy roman empire. Arab palestinians came much later, approximately 6-7 a.d.

Irrelevant to the discussion. Unless you are only understanding your own beliefs.

Actually it is THE MOST RELEVANT PART of the entire discussion.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The best thing for them would be to leave israel alone and go to friendly neighboring arab countries where they should be welcomed with open arms. Why does this not happen?

The fact that you even had this suggestion suggest you have a twisted bias against them.

AAC

No! My opinions are as objective as possible. I viewed the facts from both sides and arrived at a conclusion. A two-state solution will not work for either side because the hate has been running too deep for too long.

Perhaps in 50 to a 100 years from now things could change but unfortunately the situation is currently too volatile and something positive needs to happen.

The palestinians need to accept defeat and move forward. They have been fighting a losing battle for decades and continue doing so out of pure spite. When will enough be enough? Why don't the neighboring arab countries welcome them as heros and give them shelter&food?

Could it be that they prefer using the palestinian cause for 1)islamic solidarity and 2)to distract their populace from domestic issues?

[edit on 18-1-2010 by EarthCitizen07]

reply to post by Abu Issa


I never said the palestinians were treated as equals to israelis. All I am saying is lets do away with gross exaggerations that have no bearing in reality.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I'm sorry EC but based on your responses to me and others here I don't think you have any clear understanding of the history of Canaan/Judea/Palestine.

Do you believe the only people living in the region during the time of ancient Israel were Jewish? Really? And that Palestinians are 'nomads' who found vacant land on the fertile crescent so settled there? Be realistic!

Nomads are just that...nomads...they don't settle down. The 'nomads' or 'Bedouins' that you're referring to still exist and are a small fraction of the Palestinian population. The majority of Palestinians are farmers and/or city dwellers.

Your idea that Palestinians arrived in the 7th century is also warped. 'Arabic' arrived with the Muslim invasion but the people were already there and had been since well before the time of ancient Israel, Jews and non-Jews.

Your grasp of history has severe tunnel vision. You need to expand your vision of history if you want to use it to make your argument.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

No! My opinions are as objective as possible. I viewed the facts from both sides and arrived at a conclusion.

Just because you understand the definition of being objective doesn't mean you are being such. You have an isolated version of history that takes into account both sides, but only really agrees with one sides version of said truth. There is a fine line and you are straddling it. Your kind of bias is most dangerous to those that refuse to find truth themselves. Why not try to act like you are a palestinian supporter while you compile evidence and see what different perspective you come up with? That is true objectivism.

A two-state solution will not work for either side because the hate has been running too deep for too long.

And if one side (not to point fingers) stop believing and acting like they are better than the other side, perhaps peace could be sustainable. But when you have Israeli leaders saying quotes like, "1 Million Palestinains are not worth the fingernail of one Jew." - Ariel Shannon, what sort of respect do Israelis expect?

Perhaps in 50 to a 100 years from now things could change but unfortunately the situation is currently too volatile and something positive needs to happen.

Yeah. A change in attitudes on both sides. Starting with Israel, because they have more political support. Oh, and also because Palestinians are presently in apartment prisons.

The palestinians need to accept defeat and move forward.

What? Now you are contradicting your own solutions. Accept defeat? To what? Oppression?

They have been fighting a losing battle for decades and continue doing so out of pure spite.

Out of spite? How about out of the fact that their land and freedoms have been stripped away systematically? You are historically delusional.

When will enough be enough?

You tell me.

Why don't the neighboring arab countries welcome them as heros and give them shelter&food?

They are blockaded into a compound without food and medicine supplies. And the IDF are controlling most checkpoints. Also, maybe they have pride in their homeland and don't want to leave.

Could it be that they prefer using the palestinian cause for 1)islamic solidarity and 2)to distract their populace from domestic issues?

[edit on 18-1-2010 by EarthCitizen07]

What are you talking about here, seriously.

AAC

I won’t waste my time on mmiichael.

amyfriend I DANCED in the streets when this happened, am I a terrorist? Or am I someone who finally saw the US get what they dissevered even if they did it to themselves!

After 60 or more years and millions upon millions of dead, they didn’t even get a taste of the death and destruction they have spread around the world.

The world hates the US and Zionists because they kill and take and kill some more. The word peace has no bearing to a country with military or religious stars or stripes as its flag, the anthems are based in death. Over and over again the Zionist and Americans choose death.

The only reason I include the US in this is because they are the enablers of these occult Zionist bastards, and belong in the same pot.

The bush administration and the Zionist Israeli administration will never be held accountable because the people that hold control of the courts, parliaments, and political offices are the same people that order the killings, wars, and genocides.

The US and Israeli’s have created exactly what they wanted more empathy for killers, and none for the innocent.

If you don’t realize that suicide bombing, IED’s and homemade rockets are the last resort of a people who have lost everything, then you have no business including yourself in a fair sided debate, for you lack the knowledge to correct the situation, or you lack the brains to understand anything.
It seems the selfish disgusting BULLIES can’t handle the “title” well maybe they shouldn’t do the crime if they can’t handle the truth.
That’s all they are big bullies and cry babies who have to kill to get what they want. Children in need of a long time out!
Flame away young children, flame away!

reply to post by humilisunus


You need to see the country for its citizens rather than for its controllers. This mistake on your part will further cement hatred in your distorted heart. No one condones mass murder and lives with a pure heart, no matter what the basis.

AAC

They can say what they want about Israel, but their government was the first to setup a working field hospital in Haiti and are saving lives every day. Not just jews, but christians, muslims, and atheists as well. Countries that were thousands of miles closer with more resources haven't done as much as they have....

Iraeli Field Hospital first Setup in Haiti

[edit on 18-1-2010 by grahag]

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


No there is no mistake on my part, you voted them to power for over 60 years, if I was wrong things would be different, your track record is all we need to go on, and it speaks loud and clear. In 60 years you would have changed if what you say is true. It’s about your interests in the rest of the worlds resourses, it’s about a biblical agenda, and it’s about Zionist and money men who want world conquest.

You really don’t get it do you, typical bully attitude. Look if you want Big Mac’s, SUVs’, big houses, fancy toys and all the smack talk that goes with it, then you better understand that your government is going to kill people and take the resources to fill your needs for vanity and material greed.

Your so arrogant down there you think that if someone tells it how it is they have a “distorted heart” while I think your heads are in your ass and can’t handle the truth, it’s always about how your better and the whole world is wrong about you, or they hate you cause your free, it must be that ol’american dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it. Nothing more than selfish bullies with WMD's
When you think about my distorted heart, think about the folks that invented the saying “kill’em all and let god sort them out” then you can call me distorted.


[edit on 18-1-2010 by humilisunus]

reply to post by humilisunus


I share no interests with the examples to give. Therefore you are generalizing at its worst. There is only one GOD and each human will come to have an individual relationship with him. You think you are doing him justice by spewing generalized hate?

I don't like my government, and no one in the entire country can do anything about it. Every presidency is the equivalent of voted for a # sandwich or a # hot dog.

If you think otherwise, you are ill-informed. AMerican citizens are helpless. As are many other citizens of the world. You can quote isolated points that seem to support your assertions, but for everyone one bad apple, I can show 100 good apples that are merely waiting for the world to change, because right now the fight is unfair.

AAC

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

 

If you think otherwise, you are ill-informed. AMerican citizens are helpless. As are many other citizens of the world. You can quote isolated points that seem to support your assertions, but for everyone one bad apple, I can show 100 good apples that are merely waiting for the world to change, because right now the fight is unfair.
AAC

I think you should speak for yourself, but American citizens are NOT helpless. I'm certainly not, and I'm a citizen. I think the problem is that the people who are "helpless" ARE those people that are just sitting around waiting for the world to change and not being part of the change. THEY are part of the problem.

I'm sure you have legitimate grievances, but the way you're airing them seems a waste. People want to spend time talking, but very little time doing. Get out there and be the change you want to make and if it's a common held believe, it'll spread. Otherwise, you're probably in the minority and should either find a way to live with the situation or gather more to your cause. Generalizing won't do it though, because you included ME when you said American citizens and you're wrong in this case. We're not helpless and I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your argument in scope.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by grahag]

reply to post by grahag


I work on a daily basis to live from spirit and be the example that others may follow. Maybe we are missing each other in what kind of things are possible to incite change. Do you have examples?

Also, I believe that this journey in life is corrupted by others yet it is still individual by cause. So we make it the way it is. The world is the sum total of all human interaction. I am doing my part by spreading love and light, and praying it gains more momentum, so the collective consciousness of earth begins to change for the better.

AAC

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


There is no god and if this is where it’s going I’m done, I don’t debate obsolete endeavours. I don’t hate Jews I criticise all religions, I don’t hate Americans or Israeli’s but I will remind them of their gruesome deeds. If you can’t take the heat get out of the oven.

reply to post by humilisunus


If you ever want proof of a creator, just u2u me. I am not religious one iota, religion is for those that need it in their lives.

If you would appreciate that bitter thorn to be removed from your heart. Just ask.

AAC

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation

That sounds very spiritual, but you're going to need to be more practical. When I say you need to make the change, you need to start local and work your way up.

Too many people start at the top end and get nowhere and are frustrated about that. Work from the bottom level and then work your way up. This gives you an understanding of the reasons, motivations, and methods for things being the way they are.

Many things happen in government that I don't agree with, but I understand it, so I'm less upset when things I don't like happen. But I move to correct them as soon as I can by getting involved and getting people into office that can help make a difference. Sometimes it doesn't work out the way I want, but that's how life works sometimes.

I think that by trying to generalize the citizens, you lose your argument that you're making. It's like when you use the words NEVER or ALWAYS when trying to make a point.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


The only thing that will remove a thorn of bitterness is the bittersweet end of the military industrial complex, and the return of all the peoples of Palestine regardless of denomination. After that trials for the guilty leaders would be the cherry on desert.

Like another poster said YOU have to be the change you want to happen (Ghandi) if you are helpless in your own country then you are slave or a sheep, and can have no reasonable answers to debate with.

I dwell in reality, and this is about warcrimes, not one person on this earth can prove anything about this jealous man made god you speak of.

I don't think that god exists for one particular reason. No father who cared about his children would let them fight and suffer for so long. If I was their father, I'd come down, give both a spanking and tell them to get along or I'll take their land away from both of them and give it to someone who is more deserving.

But that's not happening any time soon and primarily due to religion, these sides continue to fight. It won't end well, I can tell you that. Barring some divine intervention, I see it getting much worse before it gets any better.

Every major religion has one rule which is shared. Do unto others that which you would have them do to you. Until they start following it, they can all go to hell for all I care.

Be a human first. We're ALL human, regardless of our religion. Learn to get along with each other before trying to get along with your God. You can worship whoever you want, but if you're hurting or killing people in the name of your God, you're doing it all wrong.

Originally posted by grahag
I don't think that god exists for one particular reason. No father who cared about his children would let them fight and suffer for so long. If I was their father, I'd come down, give both a spanking and tell them to get along or I'll take their land away from both of them and give it to someone who is more deserving.

I would agree. If that was the perception our creator resides in. But he does not. God is Light and all knowledge resides in that light. Many do not understand that pain is also knowledge. We are not humans having a spiritual experience, we are spirits having a human experience. You are stifled here because you just do not remember your history and future in this incarnation. You are just a part of yourself here, trapped within the frequency guidelines of this world. Outside of here you vibrate at such a higher (light) degree that most of your knowledge cannot be ascertained through your human form. That is why we meditate to pull from source within spirit and transfer it to physical.

If this doesn't make sense, it is not because it is a lie, perhaps it is because you have no frame of reference... yet. It could be like describing the color blue to a man born blind. Or describing the touch of a snowball, you have to feel it.

But that's not happening any time soon and primarily due to religion, these sides continue to fight. It won't end well, I can tell you that.

Agreed.

Barring some divine intervention, I see it getting much worse before it gets any better.

So what type of divine intervention do you think exists?

Every major religion has one rule which is shared. Do unto others that which you would have them do to you. Until they start following it, they can all go to hell for all I care.

It is injustice, I know. But do not let them affect you because they will then win on both fronts. Because they got you to disbelieve in God and made your spirit angry.

Be a human first. We're ALL human, regardless of our religion. Learn to get along with each other before trying to get along with your God. You can worship whoever you want, but if you're hurting or killing people in the name of your God, you're doing it all wrong.

Half of you knows the truth. The other half is still mad. Focus more on the former.

AAC

reply to post by humilisunus


I assure you I do not speak of that god.

I agree with your cynicism, but I guess I am just suggesting that those wishes will be settled sooner than later. Wait and see. Justice will be served by mankind.

AAC

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


Sorry friend, I don't share your spirituality. I'm cynical when it comes to God.

I bring to bear the quote that made me an atheist:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

If the creator can't take a hand to stop the suffering directly, he's not worth worshiping. I wish He'd prove me wrong, but I could wish in one hand and # in the other and I'm sure I'd have a lot more # than wishes.

Good luck with your spiritual life, but you don't sound too happy with your common man, even if you're at peace with your spirit. Might wanna try flippin' the two and see how that works out.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


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Here is the answer to the question of warcrimes, the answer is yes, hang them high!