Israel should be tried for war crimes

Originally posted by December_Rain
Actually it is not funny when people ignore International Law to save criminals.

What is funny is people who do not want a court to decide guilt, they consider all they have to do is decide themselves someone is guilty, therefore they are guilty.... lynching party!

Originally posted by December_Rain
Actually it is not funny when people ignore International Law to save criminals.

Yes we must convict the leader of Sudan for the genocide of a quarter million people, the Saudis for repeated violations of human rights including slavery, along with those responsible for government sanctioned mass murders in Pakistan, Iran, Lebanon, a dozen Africa nations, etc.

We mustn't let those Evil Zionists think they're being given special treatment.

IK expect a dozen new thread of outraged indignation on what those awful Middle East and African regimes are doing.

We all have to recognize International Law. (except if you're the United Nations)



[edit on 19-1-2010 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by dereks
Stupid American who threw themselves under a armoured bulldozer, it was not murder - but once again you just decide, no court needed, just a lynching!

[edit on 19/1/10 by dereks]

Yeh stupid American who fail to realise Israel will not hesitate to murder them for their own gain/ profit and who fail to realise how Israeli Lobby has entrenched themselves in US Govt. and is hollowing it like a termite. Same stupid Americans whose sweat and blood money is send to Israel over many years and is continuing to do so.

Originally posted by December_Rain
stupid American who fail to realise Israel will not hesitate to murder them for their own gain/ profit and who fail to realise how Israeli Lobby has entrenched themselves in US Govt. and is hollowing it like a termite. Same stupid Americans whose sweat and blood money is send to Israel over many years and is continuing to do so.

Think I've heard this speech before. Are you quoting Farfour Mouse from that Palestinian children's program?

Someone should start a new thread about those murderous
profit-seeking Israelis infiltrating the US govt.

It's a conspiracy.

reply to post by mmiichael


Nope I am not quoting from anywhere. It is the minions of JIDF who are provided manuals and told to how derail threads.

You can start as many threads as you want on this topic, but as long as the US has as much power as it currently does, Israel does not have to fear to be held accountable for its war crimes. Another scenario is that of the Middle East losing its importance (oil) and consequently the importance and relevance of Israel to the US would decrease significantly.

Israel has bought its way into the American government through lobbyist organizations such as AIPAC. Obama stressed he'd limit the power of lobbyists in Washington, but their power is so strong that he succumbed to their pressure. Presumably, they have funded his campaign significantly.

The US should force Israel into a situation in which the Palestinian territories will be allowed to form a free nation with a corridor between the West Bank and Gaza and self-evidently the removal of all Israeli settlers on Palestinian territory. In the current situation, both Gaza and the West Bank have been respectively turned into a prison and a shrinking West Bank full divided into small clusters full of checkpoints and little freedom of movement.

It's not that hard to achieve, but there is no willingness to achieve such a two-state solution as there is nothing to gain for Israel. In fact, they would lose territory, increase its security risk and create unrest among its people.Keeping the Palestinians weak and powerless, giving them no hope of a better future, no economic prospect is an easier threat to deal with than a free nation.

The world cannot allow hundreds of thousands of people to suffer like this, yet nothing will be done because of double standards. Personally, I think many more people would support Israeli retaliations if it would be attacked by terrorists from within a free Palestinian state than people currently do because of their oppression to a whole people.

reply to post by Mdv2


Nice post although I don't know why you chose to describe the pale side as terrorists, when the Israeli side create just as much terror.

Anyway what I wanted to say was that my current understanding is that the Israeli's prefererence is

a. No palestinian state at all .. preferred
b. A 2 state solution as you propose .... less prefered but might put up with
c. 1 state with all living together .... not wanted at all

The reason C. is not wanted is because the Palestininas would outnumber the Israeli's and in a democratic society that does not suit the Israeli's.

It's also the reason why the Palestinians do not want a 2 state solution, as their ultimate aim is to get the whole of the territory back under their control.

Does anyone agree with my take on this or am I way off ?

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by Mdv2

 

Nice post although I don't know why you chose to describe the pale side as terrorists, when the Israeli side create just as much terror.

I didn't call the Palestinian side terrorists, I called Hamas terrorists. They are, care little about the Palestinian people and attempt to kill innocent Israelis. Like it or not, the land was given to the Jewish community and Palestinians need to accept that - regardless of the disproportionate and criminal acts of Israeli regime. Hamas, for one, doesn't accept that the land their people once lived on for so long (in peace with many Jews) is being occupied. You can blame Israel for a lot, but not that they were given the land.

Personally, I've always thought it would be better to create a Jewish state in America. Texas for example. Relocate all non-Jewish Texans to a certain district (Dallas), build a wall around it and retaliate on a full scale to every attempt of attacking the Israeli Texan state. Since America is the biggest friend of Israel, I don't think Americans would mind giving up a piece of land for this good cause. The Middle Eastern countries could then continue to kill each other because they certainly will when the common enemy is gone.

reply to post by December_Rain


You sound like Bill O'rielly in the spin zone.

At least I had the balls to show how I felt AT THE TIME. Like I said it was shock. But you’re right that doesn’t excuse the behaviour.

If only they would wake up in the USA, if only they would put down their guns, and star bucks for a minute wake up and take the country back, some say the tree of liberty must be watered but that tree is dead. The ants want to be ruled by the grasshoppers.

They need the CIA drugs to deal with reality, they need to kill to prove their better, they need to say every other country is just as bad or worst when cornered with their atrocities. You can say what you will but the majority see it for what it is, a sick twisted country, with sick twisted leaders.

I do agree with you though I shouldn’t stick you all in the same boat there are some great people in the US, willing to put their ass on the line to call it how it is, to bad no one ever embraces them, they must be to busy with an iphone app, or waiting in line for that fancy car or burger to realize the world is being destroyed by their greed.

Even the people you praise in the country are money hungry thugs, like 50cent, puffy, don trump and many more thugs raised to fame and wealth cause their cut throats willing to stab someone in the back for a dime. The movie gangs of New York perfectly portray the US as it still is, butchers and all.

When the US wakes up....if they ever do, it will be the end of the disgusting actions going on in Israel, if it wasnt for the US Israel woudlnt exsist at all.


By the way anyone see them flood the country by "accident" in todays press?

Originally posted by Abu Issa
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I'm sorry EC but based on your responses to me and others here I don't think you have any clear understanding of the history of Canaan/Judea/Palestine.

Do you believe the only people living in the region during the time of ancient Israel were Jewish? Really? And that Palestinians are 'nomads' who found vacant land on the fertile crescent so settled there? Be realistic!

It all boils down to religion, not because I want it to, but because that is the way it is. Judaism is the world's oldest religion and while non-jews may have settled in that area during that time they are/were a minority.

Jews do not get the respect they deserve primarily because they crucified christ and believe in the old testament. They are the mother/father of EVERY ORGANISED RELIGION in the west!

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
What are you talking about here, seriously.

AAC

ACTUALLY, its what are YOU talking ABOUT?

I don't hate arabs but they control 95% of all the middle east and north africa. They can't spare 5% for the jews that belong were they belong since time-in-memorial? Who are the greedy ones? Pathetic!

Not to mention all the oil reserves the arabs posses and thus are filthy rich. Why can't they take some of their wealth and help-out the palestinians??? They rather bitch and moan because it helps solidify their choke-hold on religion and wealth........

[edit on 20-1-2010 by EarthCitizen07]

reply to post by Mdv2


I'm sorry I do apologise. Maybe I need new specs but i misread the word territories for terrorist. My mistake.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


I don't hate arabs but they control 95% of all the middle east and north africa. They can't spare 5% for the jews that belong were they belong since time-in-memorial? Who are the greedy ones? Pathetic!

There are 325 million Arabs in the world. There 14 million Jews in the world where 5 million live in the region. So by those statistics, and your assertion, Jews deserve 0.0153846154%. So? What is your point again? And how is that pathetic?

Not to mention all the oil reserves the arabs posses and thus are filthy rich. Why can't they take some of their wealth and help-out the palestinians???

They do. Every time Israel bombs Gaza or Lebanon surrounding countries send their relief.

They rather bitch and moan because it helps solidify their choke-hold on religion and wealth........

[edit on 20-1-2010 by EarthCitizen07]

You are the pot calling the kettle black.

AAC

Originally posted by Mdv2

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by Mdv2

 

Nice post although I don't know why you chose to describe the pale side as terrorists, when the Israeli side create just as much terror.

Like it or not, the land was given to the Jewish community and Palestinians need to accept that - regardless of the disproportionate and criminal acts of Israeli regime.

Ok, so let me take away your house tomorrow morning and give it to my children. You need to accept that ...

Make no mistake! If Hamaz or Hezbollah had the same military might they would not hesitate doing the same to the Israelis.

This conflict is a shell game, carefully orchestrated by powers that never come into the open. The hate between the parties ensures a steady flow of monies to the industrial war machine. It is also a convenient alibi for corrupt Arab leaders to deflect attention away from their own problems.

What I find interesting was the attitude towards the Zionist agenda. Lord Balfour, a major British power broker at the time, wrote in 1919:

The Four Great Powers [Britain, France, Italy and the United States] are committed to Zionism. And Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long traditions, in present needs, and future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land. In my opinion that is right.

The notion that the "chosen people" deserve special treatment is disturbing IMHO. As long as we all are not equal there will always be a Gaza strip.

History is taught by the prevailing party. I just want to bring to your attention a little known terrorist group called "The Lehi". They were active in the late '40s and responsible for several assassinations of high-level British politicians and many civilians. They were not Arabs, but violent Zionist Jews. They even went as far as selling out to the Nazis in return for a home land in Palestine! All members, including the assasins, were later pardoned by the state of Israel. Former Lehi member Yitzhak Shamir became prime minister of Israel.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...(group)#Assassination_of_Lord_Moyne

So I ask you what is the difference between Hamas / Hezbollah and The Lehi?

Both parties in this long standing conflict have a lot of blood on their hands. If we continue on this path there will be no winner and sooner than later we will run out of eyes עין תחת עין.

Peace,

N

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by Mdv2

 

Nice post although I don't know why you chose to describe the pale side as terrorists, when the Israeli side create just as much terror.

Anyway what I wanted to say was that my current understanding is that the Israeli's prefererence is

a. No palestinian state at all .. preferred
b. A 2 state solution as you propose .... less prefered but might put up with
c. 1 state with all living together .... not wanted at all

The reason C. is not wanted is because the Palestininas would outnumber the Israeli's and in a democratic society that does not suit the Israeli's.

It's also the reason why the Palestinians do not want a 2 state solution, as their ultimate aim is to get the whole of the territory back under their control.

Does anyone agree with my take on this or am I way off ?

More-or-less I agree with your take in that neither side wants to live together in one state. 1)The hate goes very deep 2)Both sides want the territory of israel for themselves but of course neither side has the cajones to admit it!

The arabs control 95% of the middle east and north africa yet they are not willing to concede 5% to the oldest, most respectable civilazation primarily out of pride. Their pride is based on islamic solidarity and territorial domination. If they control the land that also means they control the resources which means lots and lots of money.

Its a win-win for the arabs and a lose-lose for the jews in that particular region of the world. The jews however are a resilient bunch that does not quit easy and eventually will get their way if they persist. Hitler could not eradicate them and I seriously doubt hamas or iran will.

Period, end of discussion!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

More-or-less I agree with your take in that neither side wants to live together in one state. 1)The hate goes very deep 2)Both sides want the territory of israel for themselves but of course neither side has the cajones to admit it!

The arabs control 95% of the middle east and north africa yet they are not willing to concede 5% to the oldest, most respectable civilazation primarily out of pride. Their pride is based on islamic solidarity and territorial domination. If they control the land that also means they control the resources which means lots and lots of money.

Its a win-win for the arabs and a lose-lose for the jews in that particular region of the world. The jews however are a resilient bunch that does not quit easy and eventually will get their way if they persist. Hitler could not eradicate them and I seriously doubt hamas or iran will.

Period, end of discussion!

It may be the end of the discussion for you, but for the rest of us it will likely go on a while yet. Sorry to see you go though, the more discussion about the problem the more likely a solution may be found.

I don't think its about resources because the land taken by Israel does not have any as far as I know, the Israeli's have improved the land since taking it over. I did hear something about gas fields off the coast, buts thats it.

You mention the Jews winning out, but of course Israel is not only about Jews. Yes a lot of Jews live there, but a lot of them do not agree with their Zionist leaders persuing the agreesive policies which make Jews arch enemies of Muslims and Arabs.

Before the Zionists stole the land they now call Israel, the land was inhabited by peoples of different religions including jews and more or less they all got along together just fine. Its only since the zionists have driven everyone else out that the real trouble has started.

So many attrocities have been committed by both sides as a result of zionism that its hard to see how things can return to how it was before. Zionism has done nothing for jews but make them hated by hundreds of millions of muslims not to mention a lot of christians and a lot of Jews plus lots of people with no faith at all, and I think ultimately the jews will be driven out and come to regret zionism.

Before the Zionists stole the land they now call Israel

How can the pro-israeli, or the 50-50 crowd, have an honest discussion with people like you when you accuse them of STEALING THEIR OWN LAND?

How can anyone *steal* what already belongs to them?? Do you see my point? I mean really it doesn't get any more nuts&bolts than this.....

Originally posted by bigyin
You mention the Jews winning out, but of course Israel is not only about Jews. Yes a lot of Jews live there, but a lot of them do not agree with their Zionist leaders persuing the agreesive policies which make Jews arch enemies of Muslims and Arabs.

You already said in your previous post "Jews want all the land to themselves" and "Arab palestinians want all the land to themselves" and I agread with you.

Maybe people of both sects should cast a vote on what they prefer and then moving accordingly? There is no sense in hypocrisy, is there?

Originally posted by bigyin
I don't think its about resources because the land taken by Israel does not have any as far as I know, the Israeli's have improved the land since taking it over. I did hear something about gas fields off the coast, buts thats it.

I wasn't talking about resources within israel, I was talking about the resource rich MIDDLE EAST and NORTH AFRICA! Arabian countries have developed a monopoly on all the oil and gas reserves. That means they have accrued a lot of wealth and power in their hands.

They also have a monopoly on religion and language.

Originally posted by bigyin
It may be the end of the discussion for you, but for the rest of us it will likely go on a while yet. Sorry to see you go though, the more discussion about the problem the more likely a solution may be found.

Solutions require a pragmatic approach to any given problem. The problem is we have die-hard haters miscontruing facts and unwilling to comprise.

You put most of the blame on jews despite the fact they have lived there for nearly 3 millenia, while I put the blame EVERYWHERE IT NEEDS TO BE PUT!

Before I get called an israeli bigot, despite the fact I feel as though I am correct in my analysis, here is a workable solution:

1)Do away with a multiple-state solution within israel.

2)Arab palestinians will have a choice of a)becoming an israeli citizen and living by israeli standards or b)relocated to the country of their choice while israel and the receiving country split the cost.

3)Future terrorists will be tried as israeli citizens on an individual basis, much like in any other country. Race and religious affiliation will have no bearing in a criminal court.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
How can the pro-israeli, or the 50-50 crowd, have an honest discussion with people like you when you accuse them of STEALING THEIR OWN LAND?

How can anyone *steal* what already belongs to them?? Do you see my point? I mean really it doesn't get any more nuts&bolts than this.....

See it becomes stealing when it's "illegally taken". That means it's not legal and constitutes to forcefully grabbing and stealing.

There is no sense in hypocrisy, is there?

Not at all.

I wasn't talking about resources within israel, I was talking about the resource rich MIDDLE EAST and NORTH AFRICA! Arabian countries have developed a monopoly on all the oil and gas reserves. That means they have accrued a lot of wealth and power in their hands.

So has Israel through asking for funds from US/EU/ Germany over the years.

They also have a monopoly on religion and language.

Is it something like promoting Torah on official level?

Solutions require a pragmatic approach to any given problem. The problem is we have die-hard haters miscontruing facts and unwilling to comprise.

Rightly said.

You put most of the blame on jews despite the fact they have lived there for nearly 3 millenia, while I put the blame EVERYWHERE IT NEEDS TO BE PUT!

You put most of the blame on Arabs/ Muslims despite the fact their land was illegally enroached upon and illegal settlements are being built to this date. Despite the fact there is ongoing genocide on hands of Israel.